Re: Doctor Who [11]

by **Amarië** Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:31 pm

Petty, you constantly ignore half of what I write, make up things I haven't said and seen to have no grasp of the fact that Figgy and I are not the same person. I get what Figgy is saying, you don't. You are the one who should look at Figgy's list and write an essay about stereotypes and similarities.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:36 pm

Where did you give visual evidence Figg?- you cant even show me how Madge looks like anyone else, she doesn't look like River, neither of them look like Vastra, none of them look like Jenny, ect and this is easily demonstrable with a google search.
Before that you stated they all try to get off with the Doctor, and before that you said they were all femme fatales- all of which can be proved utterly wrong- not a matter of opinion, just wrong.

And the two cases that do fall under your dominatrix look claim one of them does so for very good thematic reasons which have nothing to do with dominatrix and the other is done for exactly the same reason your beloved can do wrong RTD's costume dept did it.

And you cant explain all the other female characters who dont fall into any of your accusatory gaze.

But I think your last post contains the truth at least- ' plus my criticisms aren't constructive, they are demolition balls heading for Moffats balls.'

You just want to attack Moffat for some reason, and needing actual reasons, evidence, or actually putting in the work to look at the characters properly you are not interested in that because it doesn't fall into your main agenda of just demolition Moffats balls regardless of evidence, truth or anything else in fact.

You are the one who should look at Figgy's list and write an essay about stereotypes and similarities.- Aamrie

I already did this a few posts above. I am still however waiting this awesome proof that all Moffat women are the same trope reused over and over.

by azriel Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:03 pm

Couldnt resist Smile

sorry, but, beefing over Dr Who is, I dunno, well, I think it just boils down to opinion, but hey, here goes.......
I had a hop around the web & this guy has his thoughts on the subject. Im not hanging around to join in the plate throwing Very Happy

I watch Dr Who because its outrageous, silly, but fun Laughing

.......................................................................................

And Doctor Who’s Missy is… one more of Steven Moffat’s interchangeable women

Doctor Who Series 8

If like me you watch Doctor Who, you may have seen last night’s episode ‘Dark Water’, which revealed who series eight’s villain Missy (above) is. Actually, it revealed her back story – it was clear who she was the moment photos of Michelle Gomez in character emerged.

Missy, as fans have guessed all series, is River Song: a feisty, morally ambiguous adventuress and femme fatale with a murky past who flirts with everything and controls men through sexuality, boasting a hands-on relationship with the Doctor.
In this sense, of course, Missy and River are both Tasha Lem.

And Tasha Lem – with the Doctor in lieu of Sherlock Holmes_ is Irene Adler..........................................................

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness/2014/11/02/and-doctor-whos-missy-is-one-more-of-steven-moffats-interchangeable-women/#ixzz3iVzpQWYC

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:57 pm

I don't like using blogs in a debate for a few reasons- there is little point responding to the comments as the person who wrote them is not here, they cant answer back for themselves which is not fair on them, and it tends to lead a debate to consisting of blogs and counter-blogs, as there are always both. There are feminist blogs I've read in praise of Moffats writing of women, but there would be little point in posting links as part of a debate in my view for the reasons I've just given. Shrugging

by **Amarië** Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:13 pm

Oh that blog was brilliant! Thanks Azzie, you are a star!

by azriel Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:15 pm

Oh I get ya, Very Happy

I sometimes think how can you debate opinion ? For me, I dont give a shat who writes "Who" or who the goodie is or who the baddie is, I would like to see more "out in the galaxy " stuff ? new planets, new aliens, new scarey stuff ? As you say, its probably "even stevens" with those for & those against Very Happy

I guess it depends on how deeply you feel towards the subject ? Smile

To me Capaldi has got what it takes to stand up to the worst alien life force out there. Im sure he'd make any horror that seemed hopeless to us a winning score for him. I think hes probably the best one for conveying scarey, edge of your seat stuff. He's got "something" hidden that the other Drs, I felt, didnt quite have ?

by azriel Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:17 pm

Wallabys Amarië, Thankyou Laughing

gosh !

by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:47 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Where did you give visual evidence Figg?-

its written down in my post. try reading my list. I give you the visual evidence of their physical characteristics being interchangeable dominatrix style.

you cant even show me how Madge looks like anyone else,

what the hell has Madge got to do with it? she isn't a villain, or supposed to be a powerful feisty boss lady, she has children therefore one of Moffats Madonna figures. you know, the tired stereotypical Madonna/whore binary? quite OBVIOUSLY moffat isn't going to dress a MOTHER in black latex miniskirt

she doesn't look like River, (thank goodness)

neither of them look like Vastra, none of them look like Jenny, Jenny isn't supposed to be over 35 so doesn't count.

ect and this is easily demonstrable with a google search.
Before that you stated they all try to get off with the Doctor, and before that you said they were all femme fatales- all of which can be proved utterly wrong- not a matter of opinion, just wrong.

they DO all want to shag the Doctor and they ARE all femme fAtales , as is demonstrably by their cliché femme fatale uniform.

And the two cases that do fall under your dominatrix look claim one of them does so for very good thematic reasons which have nothing to do with dominatrix and the other is done for exactly the same reason your beloved can do wrong RTD's costume dept did it.

the adipose lady was not a femme fatale nor a dominatrix, nor di she at any time flirt with the Doctor. she was a bone fide boss lady so dressed the part.

And you cant explain all the other female characters who dont fall into any of your accusatory gaze.

too bored to go through a list of ALL the female characters in Who, most of them being under the age of 35 therefore not in my 'accusatory gaze'.

But I think your last post contains the truth at least- ' plus my criticisms aren't constructive, they are demolition balls heading for Moffats balls.'

You just want to attack Moffat for some reason, and needing actual reasons, evidence, or actually putting in the work to look at the characters properly you are not interested in that because it doesn't fall into your main agenda of just demolition Moffats balls regardless of evidence, truth or anything else in fact.

the reason is, he is an arrogant sexist ass.

You are the one who should look at Figgy's list and write an essay about stereotypes and similarities.- Aamrie

I already did this a few posts above. I am still however waiting this awesome proof that all Moffat women are the same trope reused over and over.

by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:02 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't like using blogs in a debate for a few reasons- there is little point responding to the comments as the person who wrote them is not here, they cant answer back for themselves which is not fair on them, and it tends to lead a debate to consisting of blogs and counter-blogs, as there are always both. There are feminist blogs I've read in praise of Moffats writing of women, but there would be little point in posting links as part of a debate in my view for the reasons I've just given.

get off your high horse and drink your milk.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:59 pm

they DO all want to shag the Doctor and they ARE all femme fAtales - Figg

I am starting to wonder if anyone knows what a femme fatate is?! So here is the definition-

'is a stock character of a mysterious and seductive woman whose charms ensnare her lovers, often leading them into compromising, dangerous, and deadly situations. '

Only River could possibly count as by the usual definition she doesn't count as she doesn't try to do anything to harm him she is always trying to help him.
No one else tries to seduce him to get him to do anything Tasha Lem flirts with him based on a past relationship- so she is not a mystery to him either, but she is not seducing him or trying to, River isn't seducing him either for that matter as River is already married to him so doesn't have too, the whole point of her story is she knows what will happen is unavoidable and inevitable, for both of them.
Only River is trying to bed him, the rest are not- Madame Kovarian doesn't nothing vaguely flirty for example and makes no attempts at all to seduce him in any way ever- how you can claim she is just trying to sleep with the Doctor is beyond me-where does that happen?

'I give you the visual evidence of their physical characteristics being interchangeable dominatrix style.'- Figg

Yes and my next post I point out in detail how wrong you are about their physical appearance- River for example only appears in black for half of one episode in an alternative dimension, rest of the time she wears prison fatigues or an army uniform. You have to take her as she normally.
And Missy is dressed like a victorian nanny- which is completely different.

So right there on two of your main assertions- they all look alike, and they all want to bed the Doctor you are demonstrably wrong about.

'what the hell has Madge got to do with it?'

She is a good example of a typical Moffat female thats why, and one which obviously breaks your 'Moffat writes all women the same; mould to bits, her and every other female character from Moffat era on that list that you conveniently ignore.There are far more of these types of Moffat women than there are black clad baddies.

'the adipose lady was not a femme fatale nor a dominatrix'

No she isn't, not any more at least than any on the Moffat list who are not femme fatales either- its just a slopppy way to put Moffat down.
And how do you know she is not a dominatrix given she looks exactly the same as Ms Delcrox whom you are citing is a dominatrix based on her physical appearance?

'too bored to go through a list of ALL the female characters in Who'

More like you just don't want to address the fact the vast number of Moffat era women are nothing like your description of them and thus means you cant make the silly claim that Moffat is 'an arrogant sexist ass' based solely on two or three characters out of a double digit list.

'get off your high horse'

You know perfectly well I have a long standing dislike of the use of blogs in debates as its come up before now on the Who thread, posting someone elses opinion who agrees with you is evidence for nothing more than at least one person agrees with you and it quickly descends into a tit-for tat blog posting which is stupid and serves no purpose.

by David H Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:14 pm

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:19 pm

I think I need a higher horse Nod

(and that one looked suspicious like it had shades of grey, maybe 50 or so Mad

)

by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:45 pm

''She is a good example of a typical Moffat female thats why, and one which obviously breaks your 'Moffat writes all women the same; mould to bits, her and every other female character from Moffat era on that list that you conveniently ignore.There are far more of these types of Moffat women than there are black clad baddies.''

and you conveniently ignore the fact that she is a mother/Madonna figure as much a cliche as 'feisty older female/s&m dominatrix' stereotype Moffat likes to churn out.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:53 pm

She is a mother- not sure where Madonna comes into it, she has two children and a husband so not a virgin.
And if being a mother is a trope then there are an awful lot of tropes on tv in films and in books!

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:26 pm

For me, I dont give a shat who writes "Who" or who the goodie is or who the baddie is, I would like to see more "out in the galaxy " stuff ? new planets, new aliens, new scarey stuff ? As you say, its probably "even stevens" with those for & those against - Azriel

Sorry Aziel meant to respond to this bit earlier but got distracted fighting with Figg as usual! Very Happy

Oddly enough I don't really care who writes it either so long as I am enjoying it- I enjoy Moffat era more than RTD, but then I loved various eras in classic more than others too and that was before I knew who was in charge of them, I just knew I liked certain stories during certain runs of the show more than others.
But in general, amazingly enough, I watch Who for fun and pleasure and because of nostalgia and because I still find it inspirational and supportive. Which is why my defence of it, in the light of what seems to me to be unfounded and spurious personal attacks on Moffat and on the show in general, is so passionate.
I am with Capaldi when he notes that in its own small way Who is a force for good in this world, and I am proud it is and will defend it for being so.

And Id like to see more alien worlds too Nod

(I think we are getting a few in series 9 bounce

)

by **Amarië** Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:08 pm

Yeah! Give us aliens! Very Happy

Humans are nothing but trouble. Mad

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:34 pm

Going on the trailer we should be ok for aliens and alien worlds Nod

Spoiler:

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:02 am

I think something Moffat doesn't get enough credit for ois the team of writers and directors he has built up, and the way he keeps bringing in new up and coming writers alongside established writers.

Excluding Moffat himself these are the writers for series 9-

Sarah Dollard
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2183823/

Peter Harness
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1739929/

Jamie Mathieson
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2471028/

Catherine Treganna
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0871734/

Toby Whitehouse
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0925980/

Mark Gatiss
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0309693/

Those are among some of the best writers currently working in Brtish tv.

Directors

Daniel O'Hara
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1637821/

Hettie McDonald
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0531751/

Edward Bazalgette
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0063279/

Daniel Nettheim
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0626706/

Justin Molotnikov
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1098790/

Rachel Talalay
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0003080/

This quite an impressive mix of directors, experience and up and coming directors.

by azriel Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:43 am

I watch Who for fun and pleasure and because of nostalgia and because I still find it inspirational and supportive.................Petty.

Ditto Nod

Its the one thing that is "British" & wholesome, like Weetabix & Tetley tea Very Happy

Mum's jelly & blancmange on a sunday teatime. IF it was said that this was the last Dr Who EVER, Id go into melt down ! rehab here I come !

by **Amarië** Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:52 pm

If only Petty could stop being wrong about obvious things like Amy, Rose and Moffat, then this thread would be a very peaceful place. Shrugging

{{{And we'd all be bored to tears. Wink

}}}

by azriel Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:06 pm

He cant help it, he's a bloke, he needs to be cajoled sweetly to show him the error of his ways Laughing

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:22 pm

No one is cajoling my sweets whilst I have anything to say about it! Evil or Very Mad

by **Amarië** Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:40 pm

At least we agree on something. Laughing

by **Amarië** Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:She is a mother- not sure where Madonna comes into it, she has two children and a husband so not a virgin.
And if being a mother is a trope then there are an awful lot of tropes on tv in films and in books!

It's more a Holy Mother(hood) thing, not so much the virgin bit. The mother appears as saintly, chaste, graceful, kind, patient, never flirting or swearing or mocking.

There's Madge as the more typical Madonna trope character. Then there is Amy as the white clad mother holding her "devine" TARDIS baby.

by azriel Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:18 pm

When you say "Tardis" baby I just think....yuky Alien