Re: 'The Battle of the Five Armies' in theatres | SPOILERS

by Eldorion Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:41 pm

Hey, it's good to see you again, MotA! Wave

I hope you'll share at least some brief thoughts on BOFA with us after you've seen it. You're not alone in having avoided it thus far. Wink

I went to see it twice in theatres with various family members, but a number of people here still haven't watched it.

by malickfan Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:05 pm

Music of the Ainur wrote:Hello one and allNice to see you pop in again MotA , Thank you for the entertaining BOFA bits. I have checked in here and there but as I have not seen the latest (and final, I pray to all the known and unknown gods) hackery of JRR's works by the Jackson clanThere's still the ultimate editions to look forward to..., I haven't written much since DOS.

I have to date not spent a cent to reward the filmmakers for their bastardization of the Hobbit as a matter of principle. Staying true to that I now am planning on seeing BOFA tomorrow, as the chance has fallen into my lap unsought.

I am a little happy to finally be able to put this unsettled story to restYou and me both!, although my stomach is already starting to tighten and feel uneasy. I surely don't expect to enjoy it muchTreat it as a unintentional comedy with snazzy production values..., if at all. Closure is neededPersonally after watching BOTFA O felt it wasn't however so I will take my dose like a good boy.

At this point all of you have digested and reviewed and worked this trash out of your bowels, at least with some success I hope. I don't anticipate needing to rant much or post a review after I see it and therefore reopen your healing woundsPersonally I wasn't wounded or angry...just indifferent, that's the real tragedy for me I wanted to feel something!. Unlike the 1st and 2nd installments I am pretty much free of anger and the need to strike out with venom. Who knows though, after sitting through BOFA I may feel differently... You won't!

I wish you all well and I hope to view Pettys cut of BOFA sometime.

Peace and happy trails

by malickfan Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:07 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

(The wine glass seems like a bit of optimism though, Ive never seen buckie drunk any other way than straight from the bottle- as its meant to be drunk )

Fetching a glass to drink from wastes precious drinking time!

by Music of the Ainur Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:35 am

My comments on BOFA and the Jackson Legacy.

I didn't think I would need to vent, but I find that I was mistaken in that...

I am directing these words to the world in general and not at the good people here at this site. I don’t aim to offend any individual except perhaps the decision makers involved with these films.

I don’t pretend to have some special understanding of Tolkien and I don’t believe my thoughts and feelings are more special than anyone else’s. Others are certainly entitled to their wrong views. Wink

These words are my attempt to vent some of my angst and disappointment which I have felt for years now. These movies are the only subject I have ever gone into a public forum to criticize. Perhaps it seems silly to some people that I am motivated to do so… to each their own.
I don’t see any need to ever write on this subject again. I believe this will sum up my views as well as my poor ability to communicate them is capable of doing. I realize that I am repeating some points made in some of my previous rants, but some folks may not have seen these so I beg your tolerance if you have.

The Battle of Five Armies: A film allegedly based upon the book The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien.

I have just finished my first viewing of the latest and final movie based upon JRR Tolkiens works, as interpreted and brought to film by Peter Jackson and his accomplices.

I pray that it is the last in any case, but who can tell for certain, perhaps he will fabricate even more dribble if his rights and funding allow it. Perhaps he will now create a whole new trilogy which has even less of a solid basis in the works of Tolkien. No doubt “based upon the appendices of LotR”.
I for one would not be surprised. I see a beautiful love story with Gandalf and the white lady as one strong possibility for example of what we might expect yet to come.

In any case… While I fully expected an irreverent and poor treatment in BoFA, while I held not even the dimmest light of hope that it might be a good film, I was shocked yet again by the depths of its wandering, senseless buffoonery.

I shall not even attempt to give a point by point crucifixion of its myriad of faults. It shouts out its obvious deficiencies in a voice I could never aspire to rival.

Wow! It boggles the mind that it could even be possible that such a light and beautiful classic children’s tale could be transformed into three long films crammed to overflowing with such ugliness and wandering, disjointed, pointlessness. Ignoring events and characters given to hand only to fabricate new “improved” ones that are weak beyond imagining.

When I compare the spirit of the book with the movies I am dumbstruck with the differences. Could the two possibly be more at variance with each other? I believe it unlikely, unless that was the aim of the creators.

This sweet and silly innocent classic bedtime story was transformed into a nightmare of senseless ugliness and hollow video game quality fluff fill. It defies me to think of a single redeeming grace in its treatment of the story.

I can’t imagine what parent would wish for their spawn, child or teenager to watch this film. What goodness could possibly be realized? What positive lessons could be learned?
Not that it is required that a film should give these noble gifts, but it is supposed to be TH after all so one might expect some of that.
At the least it is reasonable to expect it to be somewhat cohesive and entertaining and not simply hours and hours of negative disjointed crap.

Again, I say it would be hard to miss the spirit of the original in a more monumental fashion.

I am truly in awe of the depths of WingNuts cluelessness. Given a good story they failed at every opportunity, besides the look of the film. Make up, sets, special effects were fine for the most part.
But, the story they chose to portray and the dialog was again beyond belief in the levels and flavors of crapola achieved.

I tried to view the last two films as just movies, with no expectations of them resembling TH at all. This didn't help me so much. I never grew to like or care about ANY of the characters. How could anyone ever care about them? They were for the vast part, mean, nasty or plain silly folk, dark and sinister but for fleeting sweet moments sparingly shown.

How these films justify the title of TH is beyond my imagination. Bilbo was just another minor character who was miserably undeveloped in his own story. The films were just plain impotent as far as creating feelings about him at all.

Sadly, the joke is on us lovers of Tolkien, the millions of us who hoped for and anticipated his stories being put into film. Many of us paying hard earned money to experience his magic and instead being given this garbage that only made us ill.

Indeed, a gifted child could have done a better job of creating a story line, given the book and reasonable judgment as a starting point.

Again, I repeat what I have said in my previous reviews, Jackson and his advisors obviously don’t even like Tolkien’s brilliant works. When the Six films they created are put in a line it is painfully obvious.

Beginning with a fairly good first half of FotR, I see a progressively accelerating motion towards irreverence and butchery with a corresponding diminishing quality. The creators casting aside the great story as given and shifting towards their own inferior concepts of what the story should have been, pathetic and sad in my view.

This series of films stand as a monument of cluelessness on the part of the creators. Given a gem of a story line and characters, they revise and diminish, and cheapen it into a shadow of what it could’ve been had they just use what they were given.

Throwing away a great story and smugly inserting an inferior one. Some of the greatest characters in fiction transformed into less good ones through the magic of their egos. Ignorant, arrogant, self delusional hackery is all I can call it. The more boldly they followed their own lights the worse the movies became.

I know many lovers of Tolkien still enjoyed these movie treatments. I don’t mean to belittle you lucky souls. However, in all truth I can’t even begin to imagine how that is possible. Outside of things like casting, costumes and sets, and special effects, the good moments had a mountain of bad revisions on top of them which spoiled the movies for me. The last time I watched them, shortly into The Two Towers I just turned the sound off. RotK was even harder to watch Sad

At least with the last two films I was given the best laughs I have had in years. BoFA and DoS for me had redeeming qualities as unintentional comedies. The shocking mistreatment of the story gave me such laughs it was hard to get my breath back at times.

I realize I am in the tiny minority who feels like I do, but it is little short of a crime in my view, this treatment which Jackson has given J.R.R.s work.

I feel like I have been robbed of a potentially beautiful work of art. It is akin to some self deluded amateur buying a masterwork of art only to scribble their henscratchings on top and ruining a treasure of mankind, thinking all the while they have made improvements.

I have few sacred cows, but it has become apparent to me these stories qualify. I realize the books still exist and he didn't revise them, but I still say he has tarnished them, spoiling new people’s perceptions because of seeing the movie before reading the books, or worse yet turning curious people away who may have read them.

It may sound silly to some but, when I first read these stories as a young teen I came away touched and changed by the powerful goodness in them. Full of strong, good characters who behaved honorably and selflessly in the face of horrible situations and odds, noble, unselfish characters who risked their lives in service of the greater good.

They could’ve chosen to hide and seek their own pleasure, but they didn't. They fought the evil forces and were victorious over them. Faerie stories at their best.
Tolkien, created a masterwork in my opinion and his name will live in honor through times to come.

Jackson had better hope that the Halls of Mandos are a thing of fiction and he will never be judged there for his actions.

Jackson was handed a great story and dropped the ball time and again in major ways, He might in fact be a great guy I don’t know, but his judgment in these cases sucks that’s for sure.

Ha hahahaha, Wow, and now that I have that out of my system…
I wish you all well, and hope that at least some of you will live long enough to see the day that brings you a treatment of these stories that is less… bad. At my age I don’t have that expectation for my self.
Bless you each and everyone and happy trails to all… and one last word. JACKSON YOU F%^*&*ING SUCK! Extremely Crabbit

by Music of the Ainur Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:38 am

Oh and Petty my friend, I don't even see how you could make a half an hour edit out of this latest film. You should just combine the few minutes with the previous two. Peace to all.

by azriel Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:33 am

That felt a very succint review Music, I felt all the misery, shock & jaw dropping disbelief all come flooding back. Sad

I think my anger is keeping these atrocious films alive in my head when really, all I want to do is....forget. just as I have any other crappy or low budget film Ive watched before. I cant because I love The Lord of The Rings & The Hobbit a lot ! so, what peejers has done feels as tho hes attacked one of my family & has got away with it when we all went to court. Let off, no sentencing ! just calmly walked away.
That is also a worry I have, Music, that, people who sat thru this regurgitated bile will be put off even flicking thru the books. I hope not. I dont want to be one of the many who knew & read such stirring, exciting, emotion conjuring books. All the things I DIDNT get from peejers Mad

and to quote 'Music'.....Jackson, you F***ing Suck!

by halfwise Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Well, THAT was an epic spewing rant, Music! :clap:

The LotR movies at least convinced some people to pick up the books, who otherwise wouldn't have. All was not lost.

I doubt the same can be said about the Hobbit movies.

In fact an entire generation of upcoming parents will probably keep the book from their kids (having been scared away by the movies), and the cultural cycle we grew up on will be broken.

by malickfan Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:07 pm

halfwise wrote:
I doubt the same can be said about the Hobbit movies. In fact an entire generation of upcoming parents will probably keep the book from their kids (having been scared away by the movies), and the cultural cycle we grew up on will be broken.

I know two people personally who read TH book after seeing the film, they preferred the film because the book was 'Old fashioned and childish, with not enough action'. Narurally I did point out it is an old book written by a Devout Roman Catholic Scholar, and WW1 veteran for his children, they assumed as a fan of the book I would like the films becuase 'There's three of them, with lots of things from those appendices'.

Rolling Eyes

by Mrs Figg Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:11 pm

As regards TH I totally agree with you Music, those 3 films were travesties.

by malickfan Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:34 pm

Music of the Ainur wrote:My comments on BOFA and the Jackson Legacy.

I didn't think I would need to vent, but I find that I was mistaken in that... Everyone else has had their turn...

I am directing these words to the world in general and not at the good people here at this site. I don’t aim to offend any individual except perhaps the decision makers involved with these filmsDon't feel bad about offending the filmakers, I find parts of the film very offensive!.

I don’t pretend to have some special understanding of Tolkien and I don’t believe my thoughts and feelings are more special than anyone else’s. Others are certainly entitled to their wrong views.

These words are my attempt to vent some of my angst and disappointment which I have felt for years now. These movies are the only subject I have ever gone into a public forum to criticizeI would say that is the same thing for me, I post at IMDB occasionally, and most of my posts here aren't about The Hobbit, but I've been posting about these films for five years now, It's hard to put my disappointment into a coherent argument.... Perhaps it seems silly to some people that I am motivated to do so…Honestly...I'm surprised! I've forgotten most of the trilogy already, be thankful you care enough to be dissapointed, that's something at least to each their own.
I don’t see any need to ever write on this subject again. I believe this will sum up my views as well as my poor ability to communicate them is capable of doing. I realize that I am repeating some points made in some of my previous rants, but some folks may not have seen these so I beg your tolerance if you have.

The Battle of Five Armies: A film allegedly based upon the book The HobbitDon't forget the Appendices! , by J.R.R. Tolkien.

I have just finished my first viewing of the latest and final movie based upon JRR Tolkiens works, as interpreted and brought to film by Peter Jackson and his accomplices.

I pray that it is the last in any case , but who can tell for certain, perhaps he will fabricate even more dribble if his rights and funding allow it. Perhaps he will now create a whole new trilogy which has even less of a solid basis in the works of Tolkien. No doubt “based upon the appendices of LotR”I sincerely hope not, but I also find it very likely, I have little interest in seeing Glorfied fan fiction tourism adverts for NZ whether Jackson is involved or not, but I doubt Hollywood is quite finished stamping on Tolkien's legacy just yet....
I for one would not be surprised. I see a beautiful love story with Gandalf and the white lady as one strong possibility for example of what we might expect yet to comeHonestly...if it's totally fabricated fan fiction I don't see the problem, I wouldn't watch it, and they couldn't use Tolkien's name to sell the product....

In any case… While I fully expected an irreverent and poor treatment in BoFA, while I held not even the dimmest light of hope that it might be a good film, I was shocked yet again by the depths of its wandering, senseless buffooneryThose three words sum up the trilogy very well!.

I shall not even attempt to give a point by point crucifixion of its myriad of faults. It shouts out its obvious deficiencies in a voice I could never aspire to rival.

Wow! It boggles the mind that it could even be possible that such a light and beautiful classic children’s tale could be transformed into three long films crammed to overflowing with such ugliness and wandering, disjointed, pointlessness. Ignoring events and characters given to hand only to fabricate new “improved” ones that are weak beyond imaginingIt's not the fact that the subplots are weak, things are just so cliched and badly strung together I found myself bored by how seriously the film took itself, at its heart TH is a simple silly story, taking things too seriosuly just came across as plodding and indulgent.

When I compare the spirit of the book with the movies I am dumbstruck with the differences. Could the two possibly be more at variance with each other? I believe it unlikely, unless that was the aim of the creatorsNo doubt Jackson would defend himself with the Appendices.....

This sweet and silly innocent classic bedtime story was transformed into a nightmare of senseless ugliness and hollow video game quality fluff fill. It defies me to think of a single redeeming grace in its treatment of the storyI liked 1) The Acting 2) The Production Design and 3) It's ended! .

I can’t imagine what parent would wish for their spawn, child or teenager to watch this film. What goodness could possibly be realized? What positive lessons could be learned? How to have a laugh whilst spending $800 million?
Not that it is required that a film should give these noble gifts, but it is supposed to be TH after all so one might expect some of that.
At the least it is reasonable to expect it to be somewhat cohesive and entertaining and not simply hours and hours of negative disjointed crap.

Again, I say it would be hard to miss the spirit of the original in a more monumental fashion.

I am truly in awe of the depths of WingNuts cluelessness. Given a good story they failed at every opportunity, besides the look of the film. Make up, sets, special effects were fine for the most partI would agree, but the CGI and colour tint PJ used only made the physical props look more obvious you tell what was real and what wasn't.
But, the story they chose to portray and the dialog was again beyond belief in the levels and flavors of crapola achieved.

I tried to view the last two films as just movies, with no expectations of them resembling TH at all. This didn't help me so much. I never grew to like or care about ANY of the charactersEven Ken Stott? Everyone seems to like him. . How could anyone ever care about them? They were for the vast part, mean, nasty or plain silly folk, dark and sinister but for fleeting sweet moments sparingly shownQuirky hairstyles and hiding 'anything' down their trousers makes me less inclined to like the Dwarves, there is a fine line between Funny and Silly.

How these films justify the title of TH is beyond my imagination. Bilbo was just another minor character who was miserably undeveloped in his own story. The films were just plain impotent as far as creating feelings about him at allFreeman looked bored half the time, and I often felt like it was just Watson in a wig.

Sadly, the joke is on us lovers of Tolkien, the millions of us who hoped for and anticipated his stories being put into film. Many of us paying hard earned money to experience his magic and instead being given this garbage that only made us ill.

Indeed, a gifted child could have done a better job of creating a story line, given the book and reasonable judgment as a starting point.

Again, I repeat what I have said in my previous reviews, Jackson and his advisors obviously don’t even like Tolkien’s brilliant worksOr perhaps they simply don't understand them the same way many of us do, you only have to look at the huge amount of critical writing on Tolkien to know he is very divisive. When the Six films they created are put in a line it is painfully obvious.

Beginning with a fairly good first half of FotR, I see a progressively accelerating motion towards irreverence and butchery with a corresponding diminishing quality. The creators casting aside the great story as given and shifting towards their own inferior concepts of what the story should have been, pathetic and sad in my view.

This series of films stand as a monument of cluelessness on the part of the creators. Given a gem of a story line and characters, they revise and diminish, and cheapen it into a shadow of what it could’ve been had they just use what they were given.

Throwing away a great story and smugly inserting an inferior one. Some of the greatest characters in fiction transformed into less good ones through the magic of their egos. Ignorant, arrogant, self delusional hackery Another good way to sum up the trilogy...is all I can call it. The more boldly they followed their own lights the worse the movies became.

I know many lovers of Tolkien still enjoyed these movie treatmentsI loved the LOTR films when I first saw them (they introuduced me to Tolkien) but I haven't watched them in years, in a roundabout way Jackson turned me into a purist. I don’t mean to belittle you lucky souls. However, in all truth I can’t even begin to imagine how that is possible. Outside of things like casting, costumes and sets, and special effects, the good moments had a mountain of bad revisions on top of them which spoiled the movies for me. The last time I watched them, shortly into The Two Towers I just turned the sound off. RotK was even harder to watch I haven't watched LOTR for around five years, I'm not sure I could face it

At least with the last two films I was given the best laughs I have had in years. BoFA and DoS for me had redeeming qualities as unintentional comedies. The shocking mistreatment of the story gave me such laughs it was hard to get my breath back at times.

I realize I am in the tiny minority who feels like I doNot here you aren't , but it is little short of a crime in my view, this treatment which Jackson has given J.R.R.s work.

I feel like I have been robbed of a potentially beautiful work of art. It is akin to some self deluded amateur buying a masterwork of art only to scribble their henscratchings on top and ruining a treasure of mankind, thinking all the while they have made improvements.

I have few sacred cows, but it has become apparent to me these stories qualify. I realize the books still exist and he didn't revise them, but I still say he has tarnished them, spoiling new people’s perceptions because of seeing the movie before reading the books, or worse yet turning curious people away who may have read themThat is my fear, as Christopher Tolkien put it, his fathers works have become a monster.

It may sound silly to some but, when I first read these stories as a young teen I came away touched and changed by the powerful goodness in them. Full of strong, good characters who behaved honorably and selflessly in the face of horrible situations and odds, noble, unselfish characters who risked their lives in service of the greater good.

They could’ve chosen to hide and seek their own pleasure, but they didn't. They fought the evil forces and were victorious over them. Faerie stories at their best.
Tolkien, created a masterwork in my opinion and his name will live in honor through times to come.

Jackson had better hope that the Halls of Mandos are a thing of fiction and he will never be judged there for his actions .

Jackson was handed a great story and dropped the ball time and again in major ways, He might in fact be a great guy I don’t know, but his judgment in these cases sucks that’s for sure.

Ha hahahaha, Wow, and now that I have that out of my system…
I wish you all well, and hope that at least some of you will live long enough to see the day that brings you a treatment of these stories that is less… bad. At my age I don’t have that expectation for my self.Honestly...I wouldn't mind if it never happens again, as Tolkien put it (paraphrased) about The Sil 'I think to go there risks destroying the magic' the books stand alone as masterpieces, a new film would have little reason to cleave closer to the books, I fear it would simply be an inferior retread of PJ's versions
Bless you each and everyone and happy trails to all… and one last word. JACKSON YOU F%^*&*ING SUCK!

by Music of the Ainur Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:29 pm

azriel wrote: what peejers has done feels as tho hes attacked one of my family & has got away with it when we all went to court. Let off, no sentencing ! just calmly walked away. I can relate to your feelings, It makes me want to vomit to think how he has made Millions by abusing and bastardizing Tolkiens high art, and his clueless ego no doubt gets petted every day by his adoring clueless fans, the thought of him being so richly rewarded for his rape and pillage of Tolkiens beautiful creations almost makes my brain explode At least now with this hack job in the past perhaps time will at least bring a numbing of our discomfort. Peace to you and yours

halfwise wrote:Well, THAT was an epic spewing rant, Music! I had to cut things out that I originally wrote, things I wouldn't wish youngsters to see, words that my grandmother would not have approved of

The LotR movies at least convinced some people to pick up the books, who otherwise wouldn't have. All was not lost.

I doubt the same can be said about the Hobbit movies. In fact an entire generation of upcoming parents will probably keep the book from their kids (having been scared away by the movies), and the cultural cycle we grew up on will be broken.Yes, sadly this is what I think too, what parent in their right mind would want their child to be influenced by that angry, violent and nasty story full of grotesque creatures of evil? To hear these words used to describe TH almost makes me want to weep (if I was a weeping man).And I was referring to the "good guys" there. The Dol Guldur scenes and what they have done with Galadriel makes me wretch too. Jackson was clueless and his treatment of her throughout his films is one of my major issues with him. He took this High amazing, powerful character and turned her into a scary, creepy hag! Jackson at every chance omitted the high good magical qualities and amplified the black evil magic. I can only believe that this speaks of his qualities, the world is a mirror you know... Jackson has turned a sweet children's story that has positive lessons for a child into something Foul and Black and nasty.

malickfan wrote:

I know two people personally who read TH book after seeing the film, they preferred the film because the book was 'Old fashioned and childish, with not enough action'.

Well to each their own of course. These stories are not for everyone as nothing under the sun is. This modern time is so very different than past years, kids now a days are so super stimulated. From the times they are babies they are pummeled with tv and videos and video games... too much in my opinion. However there are still good kids I know who are big readers and can sit down with a good book and be happy. I don't want to harp on "kids nowadays", I realize most things are both good and bad and shades between white and black. I can't judge others on what entertainment they like, but jackson sure has muddied the water of Tolkien consciousness to be sure

Mrs Figg wrote:As regards TH I totally agree with you Music, those 3 films were travesties.

Hi Figg, yes ,yes they are... I can't help but feel a little badly when I slam jacksons work. I know you are one who loved his LotR and I am glad they gave you joy, joy is a good thing, and I feel bad to perhaps take some of that joy by my harsh comments, but I get the idea you are very secure in your own lights and I am glad for that.

But, for me his irreverent hackery of TH is not a new thing. It is just that the level of his clueless revisions has now shamelessly run amok instead of it's at first subtle and perhaps subdued workings in LotR. There he started the films trying to retain the spirit of the books and did a very good job of it in my opinion in the early Hobbiton scenes and then started making changes and was emboldened to make more and more which ruined the films for me.

By the time of Lothlorien I was already much less pleased with his treatment. I hate what he did to Galadriel. Then in TT,RotK, he was making ignorant revisions shamelessly left and right and he showed himself as being either clueless or simply reluctant to stick with LotR High, Good tone and spirit. He cheapened and drained the High Goodness and magic right on out.

Sad, for me, he simply doesn't "get it" in my opinion, he chose to stress the dark side instead... but I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything, just trying to communicate my feelings. Peace to you

malickfan wrote:
Music of the Ainur wrote:My comments on BOFA and the Jackson Legacy.

I am directing these words to the world in general and not at the good people here at this site. I don’t aim to offend any individual except perhaps the decision makers involved with these filmsDon't feel bad about offending the filmakers, I find parts of the film very offensive!.Oh, I don't feel a bit bad of that, in fact I aim to hurt their feelings but, I'm sure I won't, They feel Validated by all the millions in their pockets and no doubt look upon us heretics as silly, geeks, I don't expect a blind man to understand the beautiful color of the sky

I tried to view the last two films as just movies, with no expectations of them resembling TH at all. This didn't help me so much. I never grew to like or care about ANY of the charactersEven Ken Stott? Everyone seems to like him. . Well, he is the most likable of the lot, although he only had a tiny amount of development. and no I didn't ever grow too attached to him either

It has certainly been a comfort to be able to come to this forum and rant and share and laugh with all the good people here. Thank you all for your wit and it certainly helps to see there are other Tolkien lovers who feel strongly about his work as well as me.

Happy trails to each and all..

by azriel Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:33 pm

by Mrs Figg Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:27 pm

What Jackson did to The Hobbit is something I still cant quite get my head around. How did it get so bad. If there are problems with LOTR I find them acceptable and can overlook them to a great extent, but The Hobbit has not ONE redeeming feature. There is nothing I could say was of high quality even taken as a film on its own merits it fails in comparison. What they did to Galadriel and to a lesser extent to Elrond was unforgiveable. That alone would make me dislike TH, but yeah pretty nonplussed. People may or may not like Cate Blanchets portrayal in LOTR, but she didn't do harm to the character imho, but in TH she certainly did twist the character in a grotesque manner, just horrible, ugly and it makes me pissed off just to remember it.

by Eldorion Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:55 am

That's a very impressive rant, MotA. Nod

I don't agree with you 100%, and my feelings about even the parts PJ's films that I really dislike are not quite so visceral, but I admire your spirited take-down.

Music of the Ainur wrote:These words are my attempt to vent some of my angst and disappointment which I have felt for years now. These movies are the only subject I have ever gone into a public forum to criticize. Perhaps it seems silly to some people that I am motivated to do so… to each their own.

Don't worry about it. We complain about shit all the time. Laughing

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:25 am

A fine review Music- did my heart good to see you unleash your inner crabbit where its deserved- right on top of PJ. Twisted Evil

I agree not just on our specific points regards TH but where the rot was already in evidence in his LotR's films- its just wasn't unrestrained rot back then, but was still rot.

by Mrs Figg Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:13 pm

no it wasn't. It was brilliant. Wink

by azriel Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:34 pm

There were undoubtedly mistakes in LOTRs but, it sorta flowed & kept you engrossed in the film/story enough not to really make a huge issue about it. I noticed quite a few cockups but, unlike The Hobbit were every fooking cockup was amplified to outer space & beyond a lunatics ideas, I allowed it to pass by me. Probably because I felt something for the characters ? I dunno, but I didnt rip the arms off the seats as I did watching The Hobbit ! I didnt grind my teeth till I spat blood as I did The Hobbit.

by Mrs Figg Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:46 pm

I find that I can sit through 9 hours of LOTR happily transported into another world, fully immersed and feeling elated and truly thrilled, marvelling at the beauty of it and tearing up every single time at certain moments. I cant tell you how I love it, the music, the characters, everything is just brilliant. ok theres a few minor (for me) glitches, but I don't give a damn. its part of my dna now. Everytime I look at a landscape I see it through the prism of the films, oh that looks like Minas Tirith, oh that looks like Hobbiton etc etc.

The same cant be said for TH. I have blotted it from my memory.

by halfwise Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:14 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:What Jackson did to The Hobbit is something I still cant quite get my head around. How did it get so bad. If there are problems with LOTR I find them acceptable and can overlook them to a great extent, but The Hobbit has not ONE redeeming feature...

The unexpected party wasn't half bad. Not exactly what was in the books, but not doing violence to it either. Bibo's head popping up above Mirkwood; much of the spider scene was visually stunning though I would have preferred more cartoonish talking spiders. Laketown looked great, despite the unfortunate direction things took there. The Gollum scene was pretty good. A few times along the road things felt atmospheric: I rather enjoyed Balin's flashback to the battle outside Moria. But then, anything Balin said made the movie pause - such a great actor.

That about wraps it up for me.

by Mrs Figg Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:53 pm

the Gollum scene was good, but for me it was spoilt by the intrusion of some very 21st century mannerisms, blink and you would miss them but they took me out of the moment, theres one instance where Gollum does a very obvious nah-ah! head roll which would look ok on a rap video but not in Middle Earth.

as for Freemans twitching Rolling Eyes

by Music of the Ainur Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:55 pm

Well, Mr. Petty I had to keep it toned down to just a raving rant level, my first draft was just dripping with rancor and venom and many words which would cause the average person to blush. The watered down one my Grandma could read was posted instead. Cool

I suppose I am too hard on Jackson, he is only human after all. I suppose I hold him to an unreasonably high expectation of quality. But really all he had to do was stick to the story! He would have done much much better. I see all the other Tolkien lovers who love his work and can't but wonder if perhaps I am too hard on him.

Nah, nonsense.
The only reason he was able to do as good of a job as he did was because he was given an amazingly good story. If I had never read them before seeing the movies (LotR) I am fairly sure that I too would've been a big fan.

But I find it impossible to forgive and overlook his ignorant revisions, made for no good reason. I can understand changes that condensed, or made un doable parts easier to portray... and so forth. But, blatant pointless deterioration of the story I can't forgive.

Re writing and diminishing characters to make them more "believable" or human or whatever is like shooting the story in the foot in my view. Editing the very SPIRIT out is unforgivable. He doesn't like Magic , so he deletes all the Good magic and Amplifies the Dark magic.

Dear Figg, I disagree with you about his treatment of Galadriel. She was always one of my very favorite characters and I think they did a very poor job of her right across the board. Of course I don't know if ANYONE could have pleased my minds conception of her.

I doubt it. She was written as the most power feminine spirit, stunningly beautiful but with a underlying toughness and strength of being and wisdom which few of Illuvitars children ever had.

I don't really blame the actress. I just don't think Jackson likes the idea of Good magic, he surely could have presented her in a less,stern, standoffish, unapproachable,dark, scary way. She had very little softness to her... she was too stiff and hard.
It could have been done with just some nice warm, soft shining smiles and sweet intense looks perhaps...

I don't know. somehow in any case. maybe special effects of shimmery glows or something. Of course she wasn't a silly soft little girl either, but she wasn't so... Hard and stony.

In TH I agree she was just plan BAD, probably not her fault with the parts she was given, but oh my god those Dul Guldur scenes where just bad.

In LotRand TH Jackson was equally guilty in my view of trashing Elrond. Another really hard if not impossible character to do justice to in my view. But he was transformed into a stern dark, mean guy again with no softness to him in any way.No magic at all left to him.

Jackson sucked the Tolkien spirit right on out of the characters. Making them all, cheaper, more human, Weaker.

He just plainly didn't agree with Tolkien's opinion of what the characters should be.
And in my opinion he is a foolish ass for revising and changing the very backbone of JRR's tales. Cheapening and diminishing the power they contain.

hahahaha sorry to go off again on you good people. I'm sure the rant grows tiresome, fear not I will exhaust my fire soon and fade away... Be well one and all.

by Forest Shepherd Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:29 pm

Speaking to the comment earlier by Halfy about how this next young generation being introduced to Tolkien through the Hobbit films, I have to say that it goes further than that in my own experience! My two nephews have seen the hobbit films, or at least one of them, and haven't been interested at all in watching either Lord of the Rings or finishing the trilogy.

I compare myself to someone growing up with Star Wars (even though I consider the Star Wars universe a far inferior creation) who finds that the powerful effect the trilogy had on himself is lost on the following generations. It's kind of lame, really, that my niece watches things like The Walking Dead and The Vampire Diaries religiously but has been deterred from watching the Lord of the Rings because its filmic identity as a cutting-edge immensity of awesomeness has coalesced into a sedentary parody of itself.

This is the effect of time and cultural dissemination I suppose, but I cannot help but wish that the legacy of the Lord of the Rings had not been tarnished by this recent trilogy. At least when most of the population turned into fans of LotR there was actual quality content behind their eager praise. But now the situation is that the public's reaction to The Hobbit falls into one of two categories:

Either indifference, as I have seen with my niece (and this indifference magnifies existing dislike of, say, the fantasy genre), or a fanaticism that seems to exist independent of normal factors like: quality of film, quality of acting, quality of story, and just general coolness.

by halfwise Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:32 pm

I think the second category of fanaticism could only come to those who had first seen and loved the LotR movies.

by Mrs Figg Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:00 am

Music I must admit my first impression of Galadriel/Cate in Fellowship was one of mild disappointment, but thinking about it how on earth could any human play an Elven Queen without looking a bit underwhelming? I give a great deal of credit to Jackson for not choosing some standard Hollywood beauty but Cate, who has unconventional features and has grown on me over the years. She was a bit stiff but I guess she was trying to act queenly, its a hard balancing act, too normal and smiley and she doesn't look Elven enough etc etc...although she did smile in that flash Frodo experienced in Mordor with the Light of Elendil. The person who really disappointed me was Celeborn, he was just a ridiculous slo mo wooden-top.

by Forest Shepherd Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:07 am

Probably, but not necessarily necessary.
(In response to Halfy).