Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [4]

by halfwise Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:17 pm

I forget what you did with the green tidy-bowl army?

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:21 pm

{{ Not much save cut the worst excesses of it out- sadly not much could do about it. }}

by Ringdrotten Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:08 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
As to two or three films, yeah just personal preference, i found film 2 was a bit overlong, but you want longer just watch 2 and 3 back to back.

Yeah it’s really no issue at all. Though if I’m to be honest, the two movie solution felt much more like two movies - now it feels more like a mini-series, and not a trilogy. Minor point, though. It works that way too, and they’re getting pretty damn good these edits. Cheers pub

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:35 pm

now it feels more like a mini-series- Ringo

{{Thats sort of delibrate, as I felt that way about my LotR's edits being in 6 parts rather then 3. More like a mini series, a format I think suits the telling of Tolkien better than film does. }}

by halfwise Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:28 pm

That may be true now that television production values have risen to the standard of film. Dune suffered from poor production. The only mini series before Dune I can recall that were of cinema quality were Roots and Shogun.

by Ringdrotten Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:24 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:now it feels more like a mini-series- Ringo

{{Thats sort of delibrate, as I felt that way about my LotR's edits being in 6 parts rather then 3. More like a mini series, a format I think suits the telling of Tolkien better than film does. }}

Makes sense, really. Only a problem if you insist on watching TH edits and Jackson's LotR I guess... Smile

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:09 am

{{ Well that would be an obvious foolish mistake you should never make Nod

}}

by Ringdrotten Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:35 am

The everlasting problem of the semi-Liberal Smile

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:33 pm

{{{

I will never understand the liberal Pj mind! How can you even bear to watch such stupidity as Frodo choosing Gollum over Sam and sending Sam away, to effectively die, on the edge of Mordor? Among so many other horrendous things. Mad

Oddly enough I was nosing Letters earlier, specifically letter 210, in which Tolkien is voicing his annoyance at an early film treatment attempt, and find that one of my editing choices at least would meet with his approval- the decision to keep all the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli stuff seperate and their own tale from the Frodo/Sam/Golum journey-

"It is essential that these two branches should each be treated in coherent sequence. Both to render them intelligble as a story, and because they are totally different in tone and scenery. Jumbling them together entirely destroys these things.'

I quite agree Nod

}}

by Ringdrotten Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:21 am

Sorry - you LotR edits are great, but I grew up with Jackson’s versions Smile

And I only read the books after the first film came out. I guess that has a lot to do with it. On the other hand, the HP movies came about the same time, and I had plenty of purist-like issues with those. So who knows? Smile

That said: your LotR edits are well worth watching (hint hint rest of forumshire) - they are indeed much less crabbit inducing

by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:55 pm

Talking of green lavatory bowl cleaner, I think that is the only part of PJs LOTRs that makes me a bit crabbit. But given the CGI at the time I think they did a good enough job, and how do you show an invisible ghost army on film? I thought the section up to when they enter the Paths is excellent, it has the right spooky atmosphere, and the colours are right. As soon as they go in it starts to lack spook, and Gimli hopping around going nope! nope! nope! is a bit silly. In my imagination not seeing the ghosts makes it scarier, but they couldn't do that for a mainstream audience. Today with modern effects it would be by far more subtle imo.

by halfwise Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:08 pm

They were also rushed because Pirates of the Caribbean came out not long before, and they realized they were going down the same route so needed to look different. I think that's why they are green instead of greyish. I think it would have looked better if they hadn't changed direction.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:46 pm

{{ I loathed the paths of the dead section- we lose the cool bit where Aragorns nerve even convinces the horses to go with them, we lose the Grey Company and Elronds sons. The Gimli stuff is cringe inducing and just piles on the bad comic relief he is used for from TT onwards, him tiptoeing over the bones is just awful. To think Pj thought some Gimli humour was a better way to buiild a spooky atmosphere than the books discovery of the skeletal figure who died clawing at the door. Or Legolas seeing the banners of the Dead gathering behind them and following them. And as for the skull avalanche- its TH PJ bad levels.

The point of course of the entire thing is utterly different- instead of overcoming the ships and freeing up the manpower to sail with Aragorn to the seige we get the toilet cleaner stuff- rendering the entire battle a waste of time as the good guys have an impossible to defeat instant win card. And we lose one of my favourite moments from the entire battle, when Aragorn hacking his way up from the south, and Eomer hacking south meet in the middle and the bloodlust is on them and they join forces to fight on till death or victory.

So much squandered material.}}

by halfwise Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:56 pm

I sorely missed the scene with the skeleton clawing at the door, but after the Gimli schtick it may even have come off as comical. Mad

Aragorn's incredible monologue would have been ruined.

But by this point they had already destroyed the image of Aragorn as a supremely confident character who could have actually summoned the dead. I still think they could have salvaged it by making Elrond's appearance more of a turning point for the character, but Aragorn still seems reluctant and prone to slip furtively away by himself, like he doesn't want to get anyone else involved in possible failure.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:12 pm

{{ Whats annoying is creating the right atmosphere is not hard, the skeleton at the door, the banners of the dead folowing them through the darkness, the book has plenty of stuff that can be creepy and super tense.
These 2 scenes from Doctors Who Listen have more creepy tension in them than the entire Paths of the Dead section, and in the first you have 3 actors and something under a blanket in a plain room set, and in the second you have 2 actors and some sound effects. If youve got the script, got the performances, and got a crew that knows how to shoot and score it, you can make almost anything creepy. The Paths of the Dead could, and should have been as terrifying in atmosphere on film as they are in the book. And there is no real excuse for not making them so. }}

by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:25 pm

Actually Ray Harryhausen's skellingtons in Jason and the Argonauts are still bloody spooky today and that was using low tech effects, so PJ could definitely done a better job. To me it looks like a rush job, maybe he was exhausted and just went for the easiest option. With more time and effort it could have been better even with the time constraints.

by halfwise Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:29 pm

Figgs you are talking about technology and Petty is talking about storytelling. PJ was rushed with making the army of the dead (last minute change) but the major problem was the storytelling.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:08 am

{{ Yup its all about the script in this case- and the script is terrible, especially for the Paths of the Dead- it takes almost nothing from source, injects out of place humour that not only ruins the mood and atmosphere but belittles the character of Gimli, and in a desperate attempt for 'action' throws in stupid stuff like the skull avalanche.
If this is the POINT..

This is as least how far PJ misses it by! Mad

}}

by Ringdrotten Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:41 pm

What news from the mark? Are the TH edits still up? Any changes made to them? I’ve been wanting to rewatch them lately

by halfwise Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 pm

Hi Ringo!!

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:39 pm

Are the TH edits still up? Any changes made to them? - Ringo

{{ I havent checked in a while as I dl them all to my HD. But as far as I know the links here are still active-

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Merry xmas Forumshire Ok bit early, but heres my pressie to you all anyway, something to watch over the xmas period and help forget what a horrible year its been.

The Hobbit Purist Edits

UJ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_h9d8HGhvG7vju8EVQ0Mr_hr8XB84QjL/view?usp=sharing

DoS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eBF8tGaTSRkE66TWwhCNl5uY-rPIcfli/view?usp=sharing

BoFA
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12HwWhIn8AOadTOmYpVLUGRRtOGVTRdkV/view?usp=sharing

Lord of the Rings Purist Edits

Book 1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EPmLskq2jqfl6ip3m-XGNW3YmBXTkM51/view?fbclid=IwAR1NC2lxsSGKuiowXBqUCY7MychQWVa2PGQoQWxS05LYggsAU43yvnOr_8M

Book 2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h4_Q83E-eADgEOgCcBn1yTJxHpc44o02/view?fbclid=IwAR0ak5Xbt04YqWJ3KIs0ARmBkUfeL1mZdFB_3QzJx9uNk0gL-UoI3uohDuk

Book 3
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1989GFoTIjPr_TakSST2u1w47UZQlTf4c/view?fbclid=IwAR1p1wFJ_1GHMyfiXt1VaNMwBGQhCVKsUruR3w4ndq9pk9JSwoXdAxulPhU

Book 4
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1myNypEGV__VWLUpy1kJl_fZrtooEwaqP/view?fbclid=IwAR2YMWPm6YcbZwa125iWH7hJrE20j0bO-Ygy4pqBTrsGQmBy2LBdC9thiEo

Book 5
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vY5ClxX3dra4Iw0arLJwSNI2n20oLpCV/view?fbclid=IwAR3g3BOz4k5SAnpUxveani_pj0dvy17RGe9Qu1XxWlzyFNIvXu-sxrkJb-s

Book 6
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NsNjCeN9mfbbecFJ2a9fXApOXJ1-vWBh/view?fbclid=IwAR1SlOOClmtc7WJFy-aZvyVfqMRpeYzR3KlapixdzN7qdm2GaVBzqE8D94U

They are designed and edited to be watched in order of the books not order of filming so you can start with TH without fear of it being full of callbacks to LotR's and spoiling all its best moments by making them feel like repetitions by the time you get to LotR's.

There was some limited success in trying to have a Forum watchalong previously, with chat on the Forumshire discord, anyone fancy trying again over xmas?

One final thing, a thankyou to everyone who has commented, offered advice and supported my edits. Especial shout-out to Ringo who has been invaluable with suggestions and advice and just general supportiveness. Cheers mate- one day after all this madness I hope we meet in person and I can thank you properly by buying you a drink, or two.

I am toying with redoing the LotR's edits, as the quality on a modern 4k tv is not good and ranges from bad to unwatchable Mad

But its a big job so I keep putting it off. }}

by Ringdrotten Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:31 pm

Links still work like a charm, thanks! Smile

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:59 pm

{{ Hope you enjoy them again- I recently rewatched them myself and the bizarre thing is I prefer (the edited version of course) of PJ's TH over his LotR's, as oddly enough when you remove all the PJ excess, the Coven dribble, and all the tedious callbacks and references, a larger percentage of the TH book is left intact than there is of the LotR's books by the end of those films. Making more possible strangely enough to have closer to book TH films once you edit them, than what is left of Tolkien's LotR's when you edit those films.}}

by Ringdrotten Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:33 am

That’s pretty much exactly how I remember feeling after watching the edits as well - the book is there, it just drowns in crap. Revisiting part 1 before bed now!

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:04 am

{{ I feel editing the Hobbit is restoration of the core story thats still there, but editing LotR's is more like damage limitation - its so far off base at points there is only so much you can do in restoring the original tale. }}