The Battle of the Five Armies, teaser trailer

I would imagine that refers to the bit where Thorin is balancing and hopping about on the end of Smaug's nose.   

I don't remember that bit at all...must have repressed it.

i don't think you shold be too hard on Lily or Elijah for not reading the book, and Lily actually has read the book and she is just as much as a fan for reading it once (but not the last few pages) as me who's read them three times and watched the movies a gazillion times as someone you has studied tolkien's universe at PHD-level. Martin Freeman hasn't read it i think, or at least re-read it, nor Cumberbatch (he read the hobbit as a child), but i don't think it is the actors responsibility to read the source material. yes, it is ofcourse positive to have some knowledge of it, but really? 300 tolkien geeks on set questioning everything? that might be an extreme scenario, but actors have their trust in the director and the direction he/she wants to go, no matter if they're adapting LOTR or the great gatsby. That's what they do as actors, that's their job, and they have to be professionals. It's like playing sherlock holmes as Benedict CUmberbatch has stated, if he started thinking about all the other actors take on the character and the fanbase's different demands (through the centuries!) he wouldn't be able to do his job, which is to present his version of the character through the screenwriter's/director's take on the story and the character. BBC sherlock has two geeks behind the wheels, it doesn't mean that every Doyle-geek agrees with their decisions, but that is again part of the job of adapting something. Same goes for the Hobbit and LOTR. It's not the actors job to know everything about middle-earth and Tolkien's vision of it, they trust the writers and the directors and tries to stay true to what the script wants for their character and to some degree stay true to what is said in the source-material (they're not oblivious). But there is in most cases no point in going back and reading LOTR and reading TH and watching the movies and other adaptions and what they did to the character you're playing. that's not the actor's job, that's the fanbase's and geek's job.

so stop hating on actors who hasn't read any of the books!

As a counter to that I present Viggo- who did study the source material and who brings to the role of Aragorn a lot more than the script writers bothered too.
His performance in my book is improved by his knowledge not lessened by it, and had another actor played the character based solely upon the script it would have been a considerably shallower performance as a result because the script is considerably shallower.

yes, there are both examples for and against, what Viggo did was brilliant, but we shouldn't hold it against actors who don't read the books that thoroughly. it doesn't make someone less fit for the job if they haven't read the books. If they're character lacks something in regards to the source material it is the screenwriter's and director's fault, not the actors. if they are good or bad actors are another matter, but again, they were chosen by the men and women behind the movie. the actors in the end have to put the trust in the director and co. and hope that they are fit for the job.

I dunno, if you are going for a job interview its always wise to bone up on the company first, find out their history, what they do, who they sell to, what there plans are, that way you can drop in how excited you'd be to be a part of their expansion or their breaking into the chinese market or whatever, and so drop in that you've done your research and hopefully improve your chances.

If its wise to do that just for a job interview surely if you get a part in a film adapted from a book its only prudent to do your research too before you go to start? Is it too much to ask?

it seems you think i am saying one shouldn't read up on stuff, i am not, i am just saying it's not always necessary. yes, ofcourse some research is positive, but then again, in the end, it all depends on the script and you as an actor have to be faithfull to the script, that's what you are hired to do, whatever personal feelings you have towards it or the fans or the sourcematerial, that's totally up to the person, but as an actor you have to be professional. My point was to not say an actor is less suited for the part because he/she hasn't read tolkien, because that has very little to do with the final product. and one shouldn't be too caught up with the source material as an actor because you are working on someone else's take on the "universe". Of course you bring your own views in as an actor, there is communication between actors and director (this varies ofcourse, every director works different with their actors) but in the end there is that script you have to stay faithful to, no matter what book it is based on. having all this meanings and other actors doing the same role etc. etc. may just make it more difficult (take shakespear for instant, every actor does hamlet different, they perhaps look at other actor's take on them, but in the end it is their take on Hamlet that matters and the script, maybe it is modernised somehow (like that Richard III Martin Freeman did) and being fluent in every adaption and writings of Shakespear has no real meaning really, because you trust the director that he/she knows what they're doing)).

..and surely it helps you get into character if you understand the story characters pov? it makes sense for an actor faced with a HUGE book like LOTR, to read up on what he/she is facing, specially if theres hundreds of characters with funny names.    it just makes life easier and its less embarrasing on your first day at work on set if you actually know who Gandalf is. Actors are not obliged to love Tolkien but they should read the book if they want to get into character.

my overriding mental image of the trailer and all this sorry mess, is a still shot of Bilbo with a sad bewildered look on his little face. He figures about two seconds in the Whole trailer and that just about sums it up for me.
But thats me being positive.
What I will really remember is a still shot of Martin Freeman gawking at camera for no particular reason.

yeah, some knowledge is good, don't get me wrong, my point was don't hate on actors who don't read lotr/th beforehand, they don't have to, it's not their job to know the story as detailed as the screenwriters.

they were not hired because of their tolkien knowledge, they were hired because they were good actors which the directors/screenwriters/etc. thought fitted the part they had in mind.

Some actors have trained their minds to read and memorize pages of dialog, then when the next set of rewrites comes an hour later, to forget the earlier dialog and replace it with the new. That's just what a pro does.

For somebody whose job involves constantly reading thousands of pages of scripts, I can see how sitting down and reading a novel might be no pleasure, and how in fact it might seem like just one more early draft to forget.

Which is all the more to the credit of those who do!

thats ok if you are playing a human being as most actors do, but if you are supposed to be of a non human race its not so easy as just reading some dialogue surely?

that's your opinion. but there are more to a script than just lines of dialogue.

but if you dont know what a Hobbit is before the script lands on your desk how can you give your best performance? Hobbits are special.

David H wrote:Some actors have trained their minds to read and memorize pages of dialog, then when the next set of rewrites comes an hour later, to forget the earlier dialog and replace it with the new. That's just what a pro does.

For somebody whose job involves constantly reading thousands of pages of scripts, I can see how sitting down and reading a novel might be no pleasure, and how in fact it might seem like just one more early draft to forget.

Which is all the more to the credit of those who do!

Hey David, Good name BTW, something we have in common...

While perhaps a great actor doesn't need to read the novel to do a credible job... I personally find it hard to imagine the mind set of someone who knows they have a series of movies coming up, "based on" one of the most popular stories of its genre and decide to not read the book.
Maybe they were told or had knowledge that the movies would only very thinly be linked to the stories and perhaps even urged to not read them.

I am not judging anyone, I just find it strange that someone would choose not to do the obvious research. It seems to me without that base of behavioral knowledge and the "spirit" of the character it would be unlikely for them to capture the character as written. Which would explain many things I suppose.

Of course being true to the spirit or content of the stories has never been a concern of PJ or these films so that is par for the course.

Mrs Figg wrote:but if you dont know what a Hobbit is before the script lands on your desk how can you give your best performance? Hobbits are special.

if you're absolutely clueless as to what a hobbit is i don't think you'd get the job. If you have plans to audition for a hobbit or have been asked to, ofcourse you do a bit of research, doesn't mean you have to geek up and read LOTR/TH or anything. but as any actor you do some research, but it isn't essential to your job to read the whole book, that you have to trust the adaptors to have done.

I think there's been to much trust. They (actors, crew, etc, even the cleaning lady) trusted Peejers & Clan. What a misconception that was. What will remain with me for years to come is, The Day Peter Jackson fooked up & over Tolkien's World. He totally excelled himself with The Hobbit. Completely ruined it. Biggest fook up in cinematic history as far as Im concerned. Im feel SO pissed off words fail me ! I wanna say fuck to all this but, you cant use words like that in case minors are reading ! GET AN EDUCATION, Ban peejers from anymore mythical or historical events drama's, READ BOOKS ONLY you little cretins ! Expand your imagination from the page NOT the 3D, 2D, wizz bang technology. Cinema is great ! I love it. I enjoy the whole going out to the flicks experience,But, when I leave, I want a smile on my face ! Not thunder down the stairs, out the door & start ranting about the vile shit that could have illuminated, exploded, extolled the work of such exquisite imagination that for ever will be remembered as something great, something to be proud off, something that could raise the work to even loftier heights for generations to come that will enjoy Middle Earth. But THIS ? Its an abomination !

Music of the Ainur wrote:

While perhaps a great actor doesn't need to read the novel to do a credible job... I personally find it hard to imagine the mind set of someone who knows they have a series of movies coming up, "based on" one of the most popular stories of its genre and decide to not read the book.

Hi Music.  

I think almost all of us here agree that it would have been better if the director and the writers had paid more attention to the books, and ideally have instructed the actors to do the same.  All I'm intending is to explain the possible mindset of the actors in choosing not to do take it upon themselves to read the novels as part of their research.

To have read the book before an audition would make a lot of sense if you thought that's what the director was looking for ( it needs to be remembered that some directors prefer their actors not know what's coming next so that their performances reflect the uncertainty of the future.)

Once you've been cast, however, it could actually be a major liability if it leads you in directions other than what the director is looking for (which unfortunately seems to be the case with PJ   )

It's the kind of choice actors are making all the time: " If I'm playing a living person,  do I meet them and attempt to impersonate them, or do I NOT meet them so that I'm freer to interpret the role?"  "If I'm playing a historical character like Elizabeth I or George Washington, do I look at how other actors have approached them before me, or is that a trap?"  "If I'm playing Hamlet, do I study Olivier's every move and inflection, or do I try to forget his performance and bring something new of my own?"

In Jackson's case it isn't exactly clear to me what he wanted, which would explain all the suppressed frustration we"re hearing from the actors. It's such a shame. He got got so much talent, and then threw it away. 

azriel wrote:I think there's been to much trust. They (actors, crew, etc, even the cleaning lady) trusted Peejers & Clan. What a misconception that was. What will remain with me for years to come is, The Day Peter Jackson fooked up & over Tolkien's World. He totally excelled himself with The Hobbit. Completely ruined it. Biggest fook up in cinematic history as far as Im concerned. Im feel SO pissed off words fail me ! I wanna say fuck to all this but, you cant use words like that in case minors are reading ! GET AN EDUCATION, Ban peejers from anymore mythical or historical events drama's, READ BOOKS ONLY you little cretins ! Expand your imagination from the page NOT the 3D, 2D, wizz bang technology. Cinema is great ! I love it. I enjoy the whole going out to the flicks experience,But, when I leave, I want a smile on my face ! Not thunder down the stairs, out the door & start ranting about the vile shit that could have illuminated, exploded, extolled the work of such exquisite imagination that for ever will be remembered as something great, something to be proud off, something that could raise the work to even loftier heights for generations to come that will enjoy Middle Earth. But THIS ? Its an abomination !  

yes, Azriel, true, but that is down to the adaptors, we shouldn't blame the actors for not reading the books, we should blame PJ and co. for not reading them.. or.. understanding them

I saw Saoirse Ronan in the film Hanna yesterday,she would have made a great Elf.

i know, at first PJ wanted her for the "tauriel"-part, though the character was called Itaril. i remembered praising him for that. she would have been perfect.

"we shouldn't blame the actors for not reading the books, we should blame PJ and co. for not reading them.. or.. understanding them"....Norc
Yes Norc, I do agree with you. As usual I was firing off as I am a reactionary really    I get het up, shout, then think about it later !   I also agree Saoires would make a convincing Elf.

yeah, i know, me too  


Saoirse (or however it is spelled) would have been absolutely perfect. have you seen her in the movie "the lovely bones" or "atonement"? she's brill and to think she has a thick irish accent under that O_O

Yep, Ive seen those films & I saw "Hanna" which she was good in plus it had Eric Bana ! ( hoo-eee )   

Norc wrote:i know, at first PJ wanted her for the "tauriel"-part, though the character was called Itaril. i remembered praising him for that. she would have been perfect.

Personally I'm not sure if that would have worked, Ronan is a very talented actress, but she's what 19? 20?, I don't think I would have bought the idea of a teenage Elven princess/warrior, in the films, seems kinda too obvious a move 'Hey there's no women, or young teenagers...let's combine the two!' to me it would feel rather out of place in Tolkien's somewhat archaic world (and you've got to wonder where all the other Elvish children are...),after The Hunger Games, Maze Runner etc, I also dread to think how prominently she would feature in the marketing, and the whole Mary Sue/Strong female/love triangle buisness would probably be even more controversial.

Then again I think it was GDT who came up with Itaril, he wanted Talking animals so I my have been prepared to have a trade off...

Just my opinion, of course.