Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]

[Forest Shepherd]

I do see some pretty good things in the upcoming film though too I've pretty much gotten over the dwarfs looks although I still despise Kili and completely hate the axe in Bifur's head while at the same time thinking he does look pretty cool other wise. Thranduil looks pretty bad ass IMHO, Bard I'm starting to like the look but still hate the 3 kids thing and not sure about the whole Robin hood comparison. But so far he looks pretty cool other than those few things. I'm not stressing anymore I'm going into DOS with a I don't give a shit attitude and see what happens. I'm currently reading the Hobbit and enjoying the TRUE story of Bilbo Baggins as it was meant to be told.  

I like when Sinister writes in stream-of-consciousness mode. It presents a good challenge to the mind, to pick apart all the different ideas being presented.

Edit: Actually my mind may have been overloaded by reading all those paragraphs non-stop. Either way, I need to just say that while images from that Noseless Trailer on the previous page will haunt me forever, 1:20 was strangely hilarious.

[Mrs Figg]

I think DOS is going to be a stream of Benny Hill chase scenes. But with more clothes.

[Pettytyrant101]

The really worrying thing is that still sounds like an improvement on AUJ.

[Ringdrotten]

The really worrying thing is that still sounds like an improvement on AUJ.

Do you really think so? I really can't see why DOS will be any better, and I suspect it will be worse. I've said it many times, but I think your edit proves AUJ wasn't bad at all when all the crap had been cut, and I am able to enjoy the film without it. My worst fear is that all the made up stuff and what's left of the book will be so mixed up it'll be too difficult for you to make a decent edit of it. I'm going in with the same attitude Sinister is, but my expectations are about as low as they can get  

[Bluebottle]

Well, if Smaug dies at the end of DOS at least there will be some sort of natural progression for the story. With AUJ the story jumped back and forth so much it never really made any sense, and then they introduced the Azog story line to make it even more confusing.

[Pettytyrant101]

Do you really think so?- Ringdrotten

No, I meant watching an episode of benny hill where the ladies keep their clothes on would still be better than watching AUJ again.

I think DOS is going to make AUJ look like a faithful adaptation in comparison.

[Ringdrotten]

I honestly cannot see how it's going to pull that off, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Another month and we'll know!

[Pettytyrant101]

Simple- I dont think there will be one single thing in it, or one single line of dialogue left untampered with.
DOS will be 100% fanfic.

[Ringdrotten]

"I think DOS is going to make AUJ look like a faithful adaptation in comparison." - Petty

I read that line all wrong, got it into my head that you said DOS would be a faithful adaptation in comparison. No idea how I managed that I guess we agree then!

[Pettytyrant101]

got it into my head that you said DOS would be a faithful adaptation in comparison- Ringdrotten



I also assume therefore that you thought I had gone mad!

[halfwise]

We should have a wager on how many lines (or even significant fraction of a line) comes straight from Tolkien.

We already have one from Bilbo's first words to Smaug.

I'm guessing 'one'.  

[Tinuviel]

Do you think (strictly CINEMATICALLY speaking) that DOS will be better than AUJ?

[RA]

We should have a wager on how many lines (or even significant fraction of a line) comes straight from Tolkien.

We already have one from Bilbo's first words to Smaug.

I'm guessing 'one'.

A safe bet.

[RA]

Do you think (strictly CINEMATICALLY speaking) that DOS will be better than AUJ?

It's possible, though I didn't think that AUJ was very good from a cinematic standpoint either. The short preview of Legolas, Tauriel and Thranduil's interrogation didn't look promising though.

[Bluebottle]

Well, they changed the "In a hole in the ground lived a Hobbit.." bit. So they'll certainly not keep anything out of sentiment.

I guess lines like "We'll all burn together" is preferable to Tolkiens.

[Bluebottle]

Tinuviel;

I think it might if Smaug dies at the end of it. It might at least give it a coherent narative development. AUJ was all over the place as a film.

[Orwell]

How come Legolas looks fatter and older? I thought he was an elf and The Hobbit (movie) a Prelude?

My theory is that Tauriel gets killed and so Legolas doesn't have an elf wife to cook big dinners for him anymore - or give him all that stress women give men (apparently).

[RA]

It'd help if the filmmakers decided on a tone and stuck with it.

[Pettytyrant101]

They have decided on a tone RA- the tone is crapness, and I think they have done a remarkable job in sticking to that so far. It was crap start to finish

[Sinister71]

We should have a wager on how many lines (or even significant fraction of a line) comes straight from Tolkien.

We already have one from Bilbo's first words to Smaug.

I'm guessing 'one'.  

But sadly as the scene plays out further, the dialogue is changed. I judge the dialogue not by just one small portion from the entire statement from a sequence. I judge it by the complete dialogue of the entire sequence. With Bilbo and Smaug since that is the example you gave, the first little bit of Bilbo's statement is spot on but he doesn't finish his thought from that moment in the same way. It completely changes words and phrases. So while one small part is correct the sequence as a whole is majorly rewritten. Which doesn't even make sense since they alter Bilbo's dialogue to end with a 3 syllable word Stu-pen-dous, while the book ended with tre-men-dous. Small exerts of dialogue should be expected to be correct. But not the dialogue in its entirety.   I know its not the end of the world, but it just proves that even though the timing of the words are correct they still feel the need to alter them, so that none of Tolkien's dialogue makes it into the film unaltered.

If I had to pick how many lines from Tolkien will make it into the film, I would have to look at the sequence of dialogue not just bits of it. In which case my wager is going to be on, NONE. Not one or two, but NONE. Since it has been that way with ALL of AUJ. None of Tolkien's dialogue remained without some small alteration.   Something else I find sad aboutthe Hobbit films since I found the characters dialogue to be very well written

[Mrs Figg]

Cinematically it will probably be a LOT more interesting just from an aesthetic stand point. We will see Mirkwood, Thranduils palace, Laketown, Beorns hall. All new places to visit. Not like a stale Hobbiton and a cheap and nasty Goblin hole full of poop.

[Pettytyrant101]

A huge problem Sin is that their 'replacement' dialogue is so bloody awful- the troll sequence in the book is a delight, the conversation at turns frightening and amusing but always with an undercurrent of the threat- PJ 'replacement' stuff is awful all the word play, the rhythm of it are gone.  

[Sinister71]

A huge problem Sin is that their 'replacement' dialogue is so bloody awful- the troll sequence in the book is a delight, the conversation at turns frightening and amusing but always with an undercurrent of the threat- PJ 'replacement' stuff is awful all the word play, the rhythm of it are gone.  

Completely agree about their made up dialogue. It is crap... But when they try and use the books dialogue and only change a word here or there, or add just a few more is what really burns me up.

[Pettytyrant101]

One of the things my mind simply cannot fathom is why they changed iconic lines- the books opening being the most glaring probably (although its not alone), especially as they replaced it with something that is obviously poorer written and ruins the structuring of the original- there is no narrative, no adaptive reason for it I can think of.
It seems to be just a desire to leave no complete Tolkien in it.

Has anyone seen the EE's yet with commentary- do they give a reason for that change?

[Ringdrotten]

Haven't bought it yet. I'm buying an xbox one as soon as I can get my hands on one (it won't be available in Norway until January, and I suspect I might have to wait to get one even then), so I'm considering waiting for that so I can buy the blue ray edition instead. It's funny, or sad - the LotR EEs I couldn't wait to buy, this one I can wait for. I will consider buying it if you are going to buy it for your edit before that time, however, makes it a lot easier to give proper feedback