Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [2] [SPOILERS]

[halfwise]

So many red-heads on Forumshire. I am surprised.  

it said 'Strawberry Blonde' on the packet  

 

I'm strawberry blonde. It's like trying not to admit red velvet cake is actually chocolate.

[Norc]

watching the event. i think i like evangeline lily. and i think i'll like her character. nice with some female energy

[Pettytyrant101]

I am slightly amazed at how one trailer can so influence- its a well edited trailer but its still full of the same crap- ridiculous leaps and fights, bloody Azog and Raddyghastly, terrible cringe-worthy dialogue etc etc, nothing has changed except the packaging is better this time out.  

[Norc]

[Pettytyrant101]

I'm strawberry blonde. It's like trying not to admit red velvet cake is actually chocolate.- Halfwise

When I was a kid everyone called me a red head, I had never heard the term ginger until I was in my early teens, and then the first time I can recall being called it was on the football pitch, as we were playing a training game with two teams mixed and didn't know each others names, therefore when someone on my team was calling for a pass, or to let me know they were open they shouted 'Ginger', and that seemed perfectly fine to me.
Then somewhere about my late teens it all started to get very unpleasant and it became a term of abuse and ridicule and I had to start hitting people.  
Never really understood it, still dont, and it does seem in the end so much more painful for them than it ever is for me.  

[halfwise]

It's rarely a derogative term here, except for the general trend of freckles being seen as less attractive.

[Lancebloke]

We used to call one of our mates at school 'Ginge.' Don't think anyone ever said it as a derogatory thing.... would call him a fucking cunt if we wanted to be derogatory.

He wasn't strawberry blonde... he was bloody ginger!

[halfwise]

Hey Bungo - you may not realize the significance of it until you are old and grey and examining your life, but you appear to have Norced this thread (Petty was instrumental, but you initiated).

Some people expend untold amounts of effort before they Norc their first thread. I believe congratulations are in order!  

[Mrs Figg]

  it took me two years to learn the subtle art of Norcing, but that was a rare example of under the radar bazookering.

Wiki says: Norcing, the fine art of diverting a thread under the unsuspecting noses of fellow forum dwellers. A random comment sparks a full on diversion, can have micro side arguments, but will normally end with 'YO! suckers I Norced yo thread!' Origins unknown but its probably some form of 21st century Nordic/Viking skullduggery.

[Lancebloke]

Actually - that isn't what it says Figgy.

[Mrs Figg]

what does it say  

[bungobaggins]

Hey Bungo - you may not realize the significance of it until you are old and grey and examining your life, but you appear to have Norced this thread (Petty was instrumental, but you initiated).  

Some people expend untold amounts of effort before they Norc their first thread.  I believe congratulations are in order!  

Norced.

[Lancebloke]

Look.

[Eldorion]

watching the event. i think i like evangeline lily. and i think i'll like her character. nice with some female energy

I'm still not sure what "female energy" is, but my only real concern with the Tauriel character is how fanficcy she seems. Evangeline Lily seems cool, but then again, I've always thought Elijah Wood's behind-the-scenes appearances were neat but that didn't stop me from disliking his performance. Hopefully the Tauriel character will work, but what we've seen of the dialogue in her scenes (both Tauriel's own and the stuff that Thrandy and Legolas say) has got me fairly worried about the Mirkwood section of the film in general.

I am slightly amazed at how one trailer can so influence- its a well edited trailer but its still full of the same crap- ridiculous leaps and fights, bloody Azog and Raddyghastly, terrible cringe-worthy dialogue etc etc, nothing has changed except the packaging is better this time out.  

Well for my part, the trailer suggests that DOS might at least be an entertaining action film with a whiff of a deeper backstory. That doesn't mean it will be anything close to the book, but so long as it isn't a total snoozefest like AUJ, it will be an improvement on at least one front.

[halfwise]

AUJ wasn't a snoozefest, it was just stupid.  I wasn't bored so much as aggravated.

[Tinuviel]

There's a lot more characters for them to flesh out in this movie, too. Although with that comes the squeezing out of Bilbo's character. It literally is all about Thorin, and Bilbo's just kind of there, causing a tension in the movie that the average viewer won't understand. In the back of everyone's mind they know the film is called the Hobbit, but what they are seeing is "The Dwarf." Bilbo is the story teller PJ was referring to when he distinguished the difference between books and films; Bilbo isn't the main character, rather he's the one who's telling the story about the dwarves. It's not about him, but them. I feel like that was really established in AUJ when he writes about Erebor, then saying "that's where I come in," as if the story was never about him to begin with.

[halfwise]

Good point, Tin. I can see this shift in point of view as being a conscious choice they made in order to open up their story telling style.
Not that I agree with it....

[Eldorion]

Listen to the closing track of DOS, "I See Fire" by Ed Sheeran, here.

http://www.alterthepress.com/2013/11/ed-sheeran-releases-new-song-i-see-fire.html

I quite liked this. I'm not sure how "Middle-earthy" it felt, but then again, it took me a couple listens to fully embrace Neil Finn's "Song of the Lonely Mountain".  I liked it from the start, but I wasn't sold on it as a Hobbit end song at first.  I suspect that "I See Fire" may grow on me as well.

NB Thanks for posting the soundtrack track listing!  I had fun speculating on the movie structure of AUJ based on its track list, so I figured I'd try my hand at that here too.  It's a bit harder since the story starts to fragment as new characters are introduced.  Though I notice that there's very little with an obvious relation to the White Council/Dol Guldur plotline, although we know from the trailers that Gandalf and Radagast appear and we will learn via flashback how Gandalf got the map and key from Thrain.

DOS Special Edition Soundtrack List

Disc 1
1. The Quest for Erebor Main theme?  Prologue?
2. Wilderland There might be some travelling scenes before they meet Beorn
3. A Necromancer Looks like we'll be reintroduced to Sauron early on
4. Queer Lodgings The House of Beorn Self-explanatory, as are the next two
5. Mirkwood
6. Flies and Spiders
7. The Woodland Realm Since this comes before "Feast of Starlight", I'm gonna speculate that the audience meets the Mirkwood Elves before the Company does, possibly in a parallel to the Rohirrim in TTT
8. Feast of Starlight Where the Dwarves are captured by the Elves, I'd guess
9. Barrels Out of Bond
10. The Forest River Having two tracks for the barrel scene probably means it'll be longer.  It contains a fight with Elves as seen in the trailer, at least.
11. Bard, A Man of Lake-town I wasn't sure if we'd meet Bard early too, but based on his placement here, I'd say there's a good chance we actually don't meet him until the Company does. It also suggests that the Mirkwood section will be over quite early in the movie.
12. The High Fells I wasn't sure about this, but thanks to Google I learned that it is PJ's name for the tombs of the Nazgul >link<
13. The Nature of Evil This is a line by Thrandy in one of the trailers as Azog appears, so presumably the company fight Azog and maybe the Nazgul again here.
14. Protector of the Common Folk Bard has been described as this by the writers, right?

Disc 2
1. Thrice Welcome This sounds like a scene where the Dwarves meet the Lake-towners, so I suspect there will be a fair amount of material between the Dwarves reaching Long Lake and them entering Lake-town. That may be when they get split up, too.
2. Girion, Lord of Dale The flashback, presumably
3. Durin's Folk More flashbacks? Or perhaps the dwarves interact with/explain their quest to the Lake-towners
4. In the Shadow of the Mountain Either where there is tension with Bard over the idea of going to the mountain, or the journey from Lake-town to the mountain
5. A Spell of Concealment Perhaps this is where they see the ruins of Dale. They must have to hide from someone as well, possibly orcs or a Nazgul
6. On the Doorstep This name from the chapter of the book where the Company finds the secret door
7. The Courage of Hobbits The latest trailer uses this line in a conversation between Bilbo and Balin, so I'd say this is when Bilbo makes the decision to go inside the Mountain as the burglar
8. Inside Information This is the chapter where Bilbo meets Smaug for the first time
9. Kingsfoil Not sure what this is about, other than an excuse to have another LOTR reference. Maybe someone gets hurt or poisoned
10. A Liar and a Thief Probably a reference to the tension between Bilbo and Thorin. In the book Bilbo is indirectly called "A Thief in the Night" in one of the chapter titles
11. The Hunters I'm not sure, but I'd guess that Bard is one of the Hunters here
12. Smaug I think this and the next track are going to cover the death of Smaug, though I know some people think that Smaug won't die until the beginning of the third movie. We'll see, I suppose.
13. My Armor is Iron
14. I See Fire Ending song
15. Beyond the Forest Probably a bonus song based on its position in the track list

[Eldorion]

AUJ wasn't a snoozefest, it was just stupid.  I wasn't bored so much as aggravated.

I was both. There was plenty of aggravating stuff but the movie was so slow, with so little of consequence happening, that when I wasn't aggravated I was usually bored. There were only a couple of scenes that didn't fall into either category, which I actually enjoyed.

[Eldorion]

There's a lot more characters for them to flesh out in this movie, too. Although with that comes the squeezing out of Bilbo's character. It literally is all about Thorin, and Bilbo's just kind of there, causing a tension in the movie that the average viewer won't understand. In the back of everyone's mind they know the film is called the Hobbit, but what they are seeing is "The Dwarf." Bilbo is the story teller PJ was referring to when he distinguished the difference between books and films; Bilbo isn't the main character, rather he's the one who's telling the story about the dwarves. It's not about him, but them. I feel like that was really established in AUJ when he writes about Erebor, then saying "that's where I come in," as if the story was never about him to begin with.

I think you're right, and there was a similar shift in LOTR. The book is incredibly Hobbit-centric; we rarely see anything that the Hobbits don't see personally, or if there was no Hobbit present, we usually learn about it at the same time that a Hobbit character does (such as the Paths of the Dead). Frodo is clearly the main character, but when he isn't present, as in Books III and V, we are almost always following either Merry or Pippin. I think about the only exception is the Rohan stuff in Book III. In the movie, however, Aragorn is the main character (despite PJ's protests to the contrary) and much of the film is told from a human -- and sometimes even Elven -- perspective rather than a Hobbit one. This parallel is the main reason why I jokingly call Thorin "Aragorn Jr". PJ clearly likes having a heroic kingly figure to lead the story.

[Mrs Figg]

The only scenes that really engaged my interest were Erebor/Dale and Riddles. and maybe the Eagles.

[Eldorion]

It's YouTube.  The only other comments section on the Internet that compares is Yahoo! Answers.

https://www.youtube.com/v/w_RaPOOVX1Y

The best of both worlds!

[Eldorion]

Here are the snide remarks I made to myself while I watched the fan event.

A true crabbit spirit! I enjoyed reading these, bungo. And I agree with most of your points.

"Tolkien describes the Sylvan elves as "Less wise, more dangerous."" Can we have  a citation for that please?

For once, this does actually come from something that Tolkien said. In the description of the Wood-elves feast, when the Dwarves are caught, the narrator of The Hobbit states: "They [Wood-elves] differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise." This is part of a whole paragraph describing the Elves and their differences from the houses of the Eldar who went to Valinor, though it does not use that terminology.

[bungobaggins]

For once, this does actually come from something that Tolkien said.  In the description of the Wood-elves feast, when the Dwarves are caught, the narrator of The Hobbit states: "They [Wood-elves] differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise."  This is part of a whole paragraph describing the Elves and their differences from the houses of the Eldar who went to Valinor, though it does not use that terminology.

Thank you for the citation! It's nice to see they got something right for a change.

[Eldorion]

Here to help!