Seen any good films lately?

Just found a fitting response GIF to Star Trek purism.



Revenge of the Sith > Wrath of Khan

David I think what gets me is that ST came about because Rodenberry had tried and failed already to get a show with some social bite on tv and had it knocked back. It was an idea which was as much an emergent property of the times, of the civil rights movement as it was a sci-fi show.
What eventually evolved as ST was something which by then had an ethos, there was a genuine desire to do some good in their story telling- it had a vision and an aim. A vision Rodenberry was, quite rightly. proud of and extremely protective off during his lifetime.
The reboot is like the frothy, empty film the studios always wanted to make but couldn't because Rodenberry would never have let them. Its goes against the whole point of ST existing at all.

Regards the original- most of the plots do hold up- yeah there are leaps of faith and the odd bound of logic here and there- but even Spocks Brain is more coherent than the last film was where there is not one single element which hangs together from charcater motivations to the everchanging plot.

Mrs Figg- yup its a big fake chest- I feel women however are in no position to comment on plastic chests!

Eldo- Khan is a film you may appreciate more when you are older- it bored me too when I was young, but thats probably because is about growing old. I have found parts of it become more poignant as I get older.
I dislike most of the chasing Khan about stuff but I love the slow, book pace given over to the opening and to Kirk and Carol's releationship.
I'm not in general a huge fan of the films- the first half of Undiscovered Country is probably as good as they got for me (second half in the prison is terrible) and I have a soft spot for a couple of scenes in the otherwise laughably bad Final Frontier. BUt give me a classic episode like Balance of Teror anyday.
Or ideally just about any episode between seriees 3 and 6 of DS9- in my book as good as Star Trek ever got.

Eldorion wrote:I'd just assumed since you started posting about Sherlock around the time Petty was gathering converts. My mistake, then. It was a happy coincidence that Norwegian TV was showing both seasons of Sherlock when they did though.

yes it was ;D I had barely heard of Sherlock, just picked up that Bilbo and Smaug were in it, but I had just coped with the idea that I would never see it and just ignored it and then they showed this commercial on NRK and I totally freaked out cus I had to see it ! and I was so happy xD and then I just started spamming

and cool gif, love it xD

{{{Petty, I'm encrypting this so as not to offend our administrator's delicate sensibilities.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Or ideally just about any episode between series 3 and 6 of DS9- in my book as good as Star Trek ever got.

I choked on this quote.

When they first came out, Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 just seemed like warring commercial ripoffs of Roddenberry's work after his death. I walked away from ST entirely about that time, in total disgust. That's before I'd learned to keep my expectations low.

(Also, ST fans were starting to get a little over-the-top about then and I needed to distance myself if I wanted a social life )
}}}

((((DS9/B5 cumon! its horrible stuff.))))

Dave all I can say in answer to that is watch any of these 4 episodes and get back to me. I think they exemplify both why DS9 is the best of the Star Treks and what I mean when comparing it to the film in terms of having weight and substance.
That goes for you too Mrs Figg- watch then comment I say- and for these four there were half dozen others I could have picked of equal quality.


Little set up for the unintiated.
DS9 is a spacestation in the Bajor Sector. Bajor is a planet, until recently it was a planet under a nazi-style ruthless occupation. The Cardiasians were the oppressors.
Bajor is now free and the Federation was called in to help out.
The Federation co run the space station withe Bajorans.

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1338809/Star_Trek%3A_Deep_Space_Nine/season_1/episode_18/Duet/

An interesting aspect to Captain Sisko's character is that the bajorans, who are deeply religous, see him as the Emmisiary to the Prophets. They revere him as a religous figure, which also makes him a political one on Bajor. This throws up new angles on the Federation science attitude and its noninterference. The Emmisiary episodes are also ambigous.

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1338817/Star_Trek%3A_Deep_Space_Nine/season_6/episode_13/Far_Beyond_the_Stars/

Not much explanation needed here- except to say at this point inthe series, Jake Sisko, the Captains son is 18.

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1338924/Star_Trek%3A_Deep_Space_Nine/season_4/episode_2/The_Visitor/

This episode is set during the Dominion war. All you need to know is the Federation in alliance with the Klingons are getting their arses kicked by the Dominion. The Romulans are sittin gon the sidelines. And the Cardassians are full allies with the Dominion.

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1338836/Star_Trek%3A_Deep_Space_Nine/season_6/episode_19/In_the_Pale_Moonlight/


A word of warning- I don't know this site- I have watched all the above episodes on it however- if you get stuff saying click hee you need a plug in or anything- DO NOT CLICK- they should play fine. If it doesnt play right above the player is a grey box, it will have the episode name in it, usually two, just click on one of the other ones and it should play. Apart from player controls I wouldnt click anything else.
If neither play you may need to have vlc installed- DON'T follow their link for it- google it and get it from the vlc homepage which is perfectly safe.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Eldo- Khan is a film you may appreciate more when you are older- it bored me too when I was young, but thats probably because is about growing old. I have found parts of it become more poignant as I get older.
I dislike most of the chasing Khan about stuff but I love the slow, book pace given over to the opening and to Kirk and Carol's releationship.
I'm not in general a huge fan of the films- the first half of Undiscovered Country is probably as good as they got for me (second half in the prison is terrible) and I have a soft spot for a couple of scenes in the otherwise laughably bad Final Frontier. BUt give me a classic episode like Balance of Teror anyday.
Or ideally just about any episode between seriees 3 and 6 of DS9- in my book as good as Star Trek ever got.

I could see this argument being made for Star Trek: TMP, since I was even younger when I saw that and the slow pace was rather off-putting since I don't think I'd ever seen a film that moved that slow before (I wasn't even 10 at the time). Khan, however, I saw only a few years ago and while the pacing was fine I just didn't find the story to be interesting or the characters engaging. For what it's worth, I had broadened by horizons quite a bit in terms of reading/watching more sophisticated forms of entertainment by then. It's not that Khan is a bad film and if I'm trying to be objective then it's obviously light-years ahead of Revenge of the Sith, but I just wasn't entertained while watching it. Maybe I'll give it another try sometime, but then again, maybe not.

BTW, happy belated 9000th post, Petty!

DS9 The Cardashians were the oppressors? what did they do? force everyone to wear a Smokey Eye and heels?

Not quite the same thing Mrs Figg- although not sure which is worse.
Give one of those four episodes a go, they are all great tv.

Thanks Eldo I may just have a buckie to celebrate- I hope nothing explodes if I ever get to 10!

I wish I had a faster connection so I could give it a fair try. But till then I'll be view with polite suspicion any claim that the best episodes of Star Trek were written years after the creator died and and don't involve any trekking

Edit: 800th post. Not even a remote threat to most of you, but still a nice number

I wish you could watch them too Dave. I reckon any ST fan who says they dont like DS9 has never watched it- only explanation. oh and happy 800th!
And technically as DS9 is right next to the wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant they 'trek' further than Kirk ever got on his entire 5 year mission.

Best I can do is a few short clips from the episodes above you might be able to buffer (eventually). Only recommended for those who cannot watch the full episodes above as they contain spoilers to one degree or another. The Pale Moonlight clip is the entire last five minutes of the episode for example.

Duet


Far Beyond the Stars


The Visitor


In the Pale Moonlight

its not real STAR TREK you need Kirk and Picard

I'm a Kirk and Picard fan, Sisko is easily however the most complex and nuanced Captain in ST history. Easily.

I merely speak the truth Mrs Figg. Kirk is fantastically entertaining, Picard deep and meaningful but Sisko is both and more.

DS9 both maintains the Star Trek ideal and then puts it under severe duress to see if it holds up- it raises questions about the Federation ideal- about what just do they stand for? How far will humans go when pushed in this idealised future?
It deals with the ST universe in an honest fashion which the other series don't.
Its well seeing the core writing team went on to write Battlestar Galatica. There are a lot of similarities in themes between the two.

Facepalm all you like Mrs Figg- it will still be true- DS9 is head and shoulders above other ST series in quality of writing.

My own rating of the series would go ST:DS9, ST:OS, ST: TNG- maybe 2 episodes of Voyager and none of Enterprise.

Have you watched any of the 4 episodes I put up yet Mrs Figg?

And Voyager and Enterprise do deserve to be scrubbed from ST history along with the reboot!
It ended with ds9 (series 6 as 7 sucked after most of the writers left) far as I am concerned.

I have tried these spin offs various times but could never really get into them or want to continue trying, a bit like NuWho with Ponds, its an instant chemistry thing, if it doesnt grab me within half an hour its never going to, and that includes characters, plot and the aesthetics. I give everything a try and have an open mind, I want to like things but often I dont. Its like with LOST for example, I knew within the first 5 to 10 minutes that this was something brilliant, and I knew with Luther, Misfits, Merlin, Sherlock, etc that I would enjoy them lots, I also knew something like Falling Skies would be crap and that other new one set in the Dinosaur age, its so good I cant remember its name. I watch the first episode and by then I have decided. The B5 and DS9, never appealed in any shape or form.

I can see some perils with that view Mrs Figg.
When I first saw Next Generation, I must have watched most of series 1, I thought it was the biggest pile of crap I had ever seen- just appalling (most of the early episodes still hold to that- they are appalling) and I swore I would never watch another episode of this travesty of the Star Trek name.
Then several years later by sheer chance whilst visiting a friend I happened to see an episode from series 4 or 5- and it completely blew me away- the show had morphed into something very good indeed- DS9 is much the same it hit its stride about half way through series 2.

If you dismiss a series on the first half hour of one episode I suspect you may be missing out for no good reason really.
DS9 is superbly written, superbly acted and has an excellent cast of interesting characters telling intriguing and often thought provoking stories- what more could you want from ST? (and no the answer is not 'explosions'- as the reboot seemed to think )

Incidentally the last ep I put up there- 'In the Pale Moonlight' is probably the most controversial ST episode among the fans ever made.
On one side there are those who say it is a complete betrayal of Rodenberry's utopian future vision and on the other side those who think it is the pinnacle of ST tv. (I'm firmly in the latter half)
There's an excellent episode video review from SF Debris here:

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/ds9-in-the-pale-moonlight-review-5890463

and an entire side video given over just to looking at its controversial nature. Big spoilers- if you can-watch the ep at the link above first. If you cant watch it, or are too stubborn (not looking at anyone Mrs Figg! ) then it sums up well what DS9 did better than anty other ST.

stubborn? just cos I dont like what you like? seems a bit harsh.