FREEDOM!!!! [2]

So Petty, this might already have been discussed, what's the situation with the North Sea oil if Scotland goes independent? - Bluebottle

The oil fields themselves are not exactly a matter of negotiations. Thats largely sorted by already existing international agreement on sea borders, by most estimates that puts 90% of them in Scottish waters. (also remember when the Union began the the border was not removed, when you cross into Scotland its a different Health Service, its a different legal system and its a different education system- so we already have a recognised international border, and more importantly recognised by Westminister in its existing laws)

Where things will get tricky is over the assets- the oil rigs, the refineries the processing and haulage. RUK could claim they had substantially invested in those over the years.

The biggest thing for RUK in negotiations will be Trident. Thats a Scottish trump card in the negotiations- if we refuse to keep it for at least a decade then RUK will have to get rid of it because no suitable base exists anywhere else and it would be hugely expensive to build and it would take time to do.

England no longer have the capacity to build warships, and the bulk of the UK Hydro electricity is all in Scotland too. Not to mention the water reserves. The whisky and the fisheries also put a great deal into revenues (3-4 billion per year for whisky and 80% of aquaculture exports- fish and stuff- come from Scotland).
Its easy to see why every other party in Westminister wants to keep the Union.


Halfy- I think you'd fit right in.  (except for the vegetable thing, but a couple of haggis suppers, and a few deep fried battered pizzas will soon sort you out on that score, and once you've had your first roll with square sausage on your way home from the pub in the morning you will never look back, but you will look down as its less messy when you throw up)

"Plans to end a long-standing tradition of placing a traffic cone on Glasgow's iconic Duke of Wellington statue have been dropped after a massive backlash."- BBC

And in the spirit of not missing a party once you've got one planned-

"Campaigners who planned a demonstration now say they will hold a victory rally."

Yeah, that was my point. If (when, hopefully) Scotland becomes independent it will have it's own territorial waters and economic zone along the same lines that Norway and the UK has agreed upon already.

As far as the oil platforms are concerned, wouldn't they belong to the respective oil companies? They will probably just transpose their contracts with the UK governement to the Scottish governement.

You could always go along the Hugo Chavez/Venezuelan route and nationalise the industry. Though that might not be all that popular if you want to join organisations like the EU.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"Campaigners who planned a demonstration now say they will hold a victory rally."

If they really wanted to end the tradition though, couldn't they replace the cone with a permanent headgear addition to the monument?  A giant haggis, perhaps?

No, its important to the tradition that some drunk puts it up there every weekend. And that the city authorities take it back down during the week ready for the next drunk to put another one up there.
You cant take the job away from the drunks, thats the whole point of it.
It sums up the Scottish attitude to being told to respect something just because we've been told we have to respect it- we get drunk and stick a traffic cone on it.  

As far as the oil platforms are concerned, wouldn't they belong to the respective oil companies? - Bluebottle


Yes, but as the UK government has helped them invest, provided infrastructure in road upgrades ect for transportation, not to mention direct investments they may feel they have some claim from the tax take to the Scottish Government to pay that back.
That will all come down to the negotiations if Scotland votes yes.
Similarly deciding what percent of the overall UK debt Scotland would inherit.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:No, its important to the tradition that some drunk puts it up there every weekend. And that the city authorities take it back down during the week ready for the next drunk to put another one up there.
You cant take the job away from the drunks, thats the whole point of it.
It sums up the Scottish attitude to being told to respect something just because we've been told we have to respect it- we get drunk and stick a traffic cone on it.  

So if the city authorities were to declare Wellington's cone a monument and give a city employee the job of making sure it stayed there, do you think the drunks would have to take it down every weekend?  

Yeah they probably would. Quite bloody minded we Scots, you may have noticed.

The BBC have a list of all the reports on Independence done so far, and a brief one paragraph summary of the reports main findings.

Its interesting to compare the UK government reports to the SNP and the independent reports-

Defence


   Scotland analysis: Defence (UK government) (8 October 2013) - The UK government said Scotland benefited from billions of pounds of Ministry of Defence contracts but, under independence, would no longer be eligible for contracts which the UK government chose to place or compete domestically for reasons of national security, an issue which it said would be a particular concern for the Scottish shipbuilding industry.

   Scotland analysis: Security (UK government) (29 October 2013) - The UK government said independence would put at risk access to the intelligence and security information and networks which Scotland currently enjoys as part of the UK, and that the SNP's £2.5bn security and defence budget would buy only limited capabilities.

   Securing the nation: Defending an independent Scotland (Scottish Global Forum) (12 November 2013) - The think tank said that, on the balance of available information, there seemed no question that an independent Scotland would be able to fund and maintain a defence operation of the kind outlined by the SNP government.


Economy


   Scotland's Economy: The Case for Independence (Scottish government) (21 May 2013) - The Scottish government set out its economic case for independence, saying the nation had generated more tax receipts per person than the UK for every one of the last 30 years and was in a fiscally stronger position than the rest of Britain.


   Scotland analysis: Macroeconomic and fiscal performance (UK government) (3 September 2013) - The UK government argued that Scottish independence could weaken economic integration and might see the end of business networks and trigger a "border effect", where the situation could vary between two countries despite there being no physical border.


   Fiscal Commission Working Group: Recommendations for a stabilisation fund and a savings fund for Scotland (Scottish government) (2 October 2013) - The Scottish government's fiscal commission working group set out proposals for two oil funds in the event of independence - one to cope with the volatility of prices and the other to fund long-term investments.

   Scottish independence: The Fiscal Context (Institute for Fiscal Studies) (4 November 2013) - The institute said independence would allow Scotland to plough its own fiscal furrow, but said income from the North Sea may not be sustainable in the long-run, given the volatile and diminishing nature of the sector.

Well it had to finally happen- Doctor Who has found its way into the independence debate- no honestly.

It seems the No campaign are getting increasingly out there with their list of things to try to scare voters with.
Yesterday the Tories came out and said an Independent Scotland wouldnt get to watch Doctor Who any more- after all everyone knows the BBC keep it exclusive to the UK and never, ever show it in any other country , anywhere, ever  

Former BBC Scotland exec Blair Jenkins however responded- "They are in their own fantasy world. Even by Project Fear's own standards this in the stratosphere for daftness. I can guarantee 100 percent after a Yes vote Doctor Who will still be available."

You couldnt make it up.

I should have known 'idgit' was Scottish. I'm now realizing how many smelly idiots must reside in Scotland. Does each one have their own name?  

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

@ the Doctor Who bit. The Yes campaign really have their priorities straight.

now realizing how many smelly idiots must reside in Scotland.- Halfy

We just have a lot of words for them  (That and a life of nonstop buckie and fags tends not to go well with maintaining personal hygiene standards- obviously I dont count in that as I've washed my kilt twice already this year!)

Big day today with the release of the SNP White Paper.

I've been watching the BBC coverage for the last half hour or so- so far they have interviewed a Unionist business leader, two unionist MP's (one from Cons one from Lab) and now they are interviewing a former Con Scottish secretary - it been a relentless line of negativity and naysaying and doom filled prophesy without a single pro-independence voice in sight to counter any of it- isnt the BBC supposed to be impartial? This so far has been disgraceful coverage from them doing the work of the NO campaign for them.

The BBC's Question Time, from Falkirk in Scotland, this is last nights episode- and was quite, feisty in places with a touch of crabbit (naturally)

Bad day in Scotland today with a police helicopter crashing into the roof of a Glasgow pub at which there was a band playing and over 120 people in it.
So far there are 8 dead, including all 3 of those on the helicopter and 14 seriously injured.

But once more the people of Glasgow have done themselves proud in their actions, those who were uninjured or just passing in the street formed a human chain into the collapsed, and collapsing pub to get as many of the injured out as possible, passing them carefully, inch by inch along the line.

that terrible news.

That was the lead story on the morning news here today. It's a small world, and getting smaller.

Real sad to hear that, Petty.

As for Glaswegians (  ). David Tennant told this story on QI of how they sent this tank around your country during the first world war to collect any spare cash people had left over. And the place they got the most money was Glasgow. So maybe your reputation isn't all that well deserved. :nod:Seems like there is real camaraderie around your parts, Petty.

That's frightening to imagine. Do they know what caused the helicopter to crash?

No, not yet. That will take some time, they are still picking through the rubble for trapped people.

I didn't realize they were still looking for survivors. My thoughts will be with all those affected.

The police are saying it could be a couple of days before they can clear everything, the building is still very unstable.

David Tennant told this story on QI of how they sent this tank around your country during the second world war to collect any spare cash people had left over. And the place they got the most was Glasgow. So maybe your reputation isn't all that well deserved.- Blue

"Generous Scots appear to have debunked the old stereotype that they are stingy misers as they give more to charity than the average Englishman and a third more than Londoners.
The Ipsos Mori poll released today found Scottish households with incomes of less than £150,000 gave away an average of £356 last year.
Yet Londoners donated almost £100 less - £268 - despite earning 25 per cent more than the Scots.
Overall Scotland is the most generous nation in the UK on average, followed by Wales on £328 and England on £285. Northern Ireland was not included in the survey.
On the eve of Comic Relief, a new study also shows that those in poorer areas also donate more to good causes than their richer counterparts in the south and east of England."- Daily Mail

Its not that we are actually not generous for a good cause, its just we like to be very crabbit about doing it