All things sporting [2]

I find your hypocracy mind boggling. If anyone bangs on and on about the superiority of their nation, its the Scottish.

What hypocrisy? I have made no comment at all on anything other than the subject which YOU raised.

All I have said is there is a perception of english arrogance in this matter which has nothing to do with Scots or Scotland. Other countries think it too you know.

In the english west midlands radio show I put above they are discussing this very topic as a result of this very accusation being made by a frenchman.

Why is that hypocrisy on my part? He's French!

''And many other nations who were associated with Empire or rival empire building (so all of Europe, most of Africa, the US and large chunks elsewhere) tend to react badly to that''. Petty

that was a hundred years ago, you really need to get over the Empire. Its easy to blame others for ones failures, its a lack of character. It must be gauling to know such a small Island had one of the greatest empires of all time. That while other countries were capitulating to fascism the English stood alone and never gave in. It must make a lot of people feel inferior and that is why they gloat when England fails at something. That they are still angry over stuff that happened hundreds of years ago is pathetic. But unlike others we dont tend to bleat on about our glorious past. Its bad form.

You posed a question- why do so many people take delight in England losing- the answer is you can be full of yourself sometimes, especially over sporting matters and jump the gun when it comes to your likely success.

That is not a some solely Scottish thing as you seem to believe, its the same thing espoused by the above Frenchman from a French perspective.
Its just a national trait England is associated with in some other countries.


But your conclusion above is rather similar to that of the english chap on the radio show- others gloat because they are jealous of our greatness- nothing arrogant sounding about that at all.  


"But unlike others we dont tend to bleat on about our glorious past. Its bad form."- Mrs Figg


That'll be why one of the England fan songs is entitled 'Ten German Bombers' to the tune of ten green bottles!

if you attack my country, straight back at you with interest. thats part of being English, we dont take crap from anyone.    not now not ever. under the mild mannered exterior there's very sharp teeth and claws.

But I didn't attack your country- I just told you the likeliest answer to your proposition- why do people gloat when England lose- you are the one who got all accusatory and hostile in return to the answer, but its not like I made it up, you are shooting the messenger here   

Mrs Figg wrote:there are hooligans in every national team. Why single out English fans?

I'm not trying to single out English fans, but you're asking good questions and I'm trying to answer.  

The film footage that the BBC was sending over here during the 80's was pretty horrifying. It was the most violent thing on TV between the War in Vietnam and the 1st Gulf War. I remember stabbings and stadiums being torn apart and people getting trampled to death. I remember England getting banned from international play, and Thatcher making grand speeches about it.  It completely turned me off to the whole sport.  

I think it was all especially shocking to us over here for exactly the reason you said:  the English have always had a reputation for sportsmanship.  That clearly needed to be re-thought.   

I still remember an old Yorkshireman I was talking to one evening back about 1990.  He said football's not the family game it was anymore. It's just a bunch of yobs looking for a punchup. It was clear from the silence that followed that he was pretty sick about it.  I sincerely hope it's better now, but I still find it hard to get interested in the sport. It's really nothing against England, it's just that it was England who introduced us to the violence.

 I guess it's the same as how Americans are often judged by what comes out of Hollywood.  

the fans were wrongly blamed for Hillsborough, the police tried to cover it up. its a big scandal.

But unlike others we dont tend to bleat on about our glorious past. Its bad form.

Er, wasn't most of your post doing just that? And I don't think it's unreasonable for people to bring up England's imperial history (or that of any other former imperial power) considering that the era of colonialism is still within living memory for much of the world and it's legacy is still a very active influence on world affairs, and on the internal politics of many former colonies. This is by no means exclusive to the former British Empire, of course.

Anyway, on the topic of sport, that was a hell of a finish to the US - Portugal match. An equalizer in the last 25 seconds of stoppage time!

Great game Eldo, i was rooting for your guy's. Would love to see sucky (its all about me) ranaldo get knocked out.

How the world is watching the 2014 World Cup


http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/world-cup/how-the-world-is-watching-the-2014-world-cup/story-fn9iws45-1226963665722?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Didn't get to see the US-Portugal game yesterday but looks like they did well again. I don't mind seeing Portugal go out. As much as he is a great player, I do find Ronaldo very selfish at times.

Algeria did well. I was watching the second half of that game and was quite exciting. I no longer have any idea who will win this. The only team that haven't really wobbled yet is France and we can't have them winning it!

Eldorion wrote:

But unlike others we dont tend to bleat on about our glorious past. Its bad form.

Er, wasn't most of your post doing just that? And I don't think it's unreasonable for people to bring up England's imperial history (or that of any other former imperial power) considering that the era of colonialism is still within living memory for much of the world and it's legacy is still a very active influence on world affairs, and on the internal politics of many former colonies.  This is by no means exclusive to the former British Empire, of course.

its funny, the longer I post here the more I want to vote UKIP. The sooner we get shot of whingers and the victim mentality of long gone colonials, the better my country will feel in its own skin.

For someone who is so dismissive of the people of former colonial countries, you seem to put an awful lot of stock in what they say about England.

The sooner we get shot of whingers and the victim mentality of long gone colonials, the better my country will feel in its own skin.- Mrs Figg

Maybe there is a reason so many different countries have this view?

From ESPN on Englands World Cup exit-

But just for once, let's not allow the multiple fingers of blame paper over the real problem, the problem that has existed for decades and stands the test of time far better than any poor managerial decision, the problem of English arrogance (call it blind faith if you will) when it comes to football.
The air of superiority that allows England players to claim they can win the World Cup after clinging on desperately for a 1-0 victory. The arrogance that sees TV pundits insist England 'should beat' a 'poor German side' prior to kick-off. And the arrogance that sees Rooney regularly compared to Lionel Messi, despite possessing only a fraction of the talent carried in the Argentinian's magical left foot.'

Or this from a report by Visit Britain after surveying tourists to England-

"In the eyes of the world, the English are arrogant and unfriendly.
The French had particular problems with the English – rather than the Scots and the Welsh – and were the least likely of any of the countries surveyed to visit the United Kingdom, despite their close proximity.
"The French do not perceive they would receive a warm welcome if they visited England," the report revealed.
"The attributes relating to human aspects are the weakest, with low mean scores for being welcoming, having a good sense of humour or friendliness. Most of the negativity towards Britain was towards the English people, and what was described as their reserve or arrogance."- Telegraph

Another match report on the reasons for Englands exit from the World Cup-

'THAT'S the trouble with the English. They don’t understand the value of the middle ground.
That sometimes there’s more to life than victory or defeat, than death or glory.
If they got that, if they were able to drum it into their national psyche, maybe they’d have seen the value of a draw in their World Cup match against Uruguay the other night.
But the notion of a draw as success is a complete anathema to them. The notion of being seen to play for one? Please...
They admitted as much afterwards. When they got level, they felt like they were the only team who would go on to win it. It never crossed their mind that they didn’t actually need to.
If Italy or Germany, or any of countless other more pragmatic and less arrogant nations were in that position, they’d have bolted the back door shut for 15 minutes.
Take the win if they could, but above all, make damn sure they don’t lose. Like Uruguay did.'

From a piece in the Guardian comparing French and English arrogance-

'their (the French) arrogance is not like any arrogance, it's pretty straightforward, pretty childlike. In other words, endearing. It says, "We are the best", while deep down they know very well they are not. Their arrogance is like that of a barking poodle. Annoying, perhaps, but of no great consequence for the world. Nothing like English arrogance, which is of the ultimate kind. English arrogance never says "we are the best" as it goes without saying. That's why the English are so polite to foreigners. Foreigners will never threaten their superiority, as it is far beyond anybody's reach. '


With the exception of the ESPN piece all the others are from English sources, written by English journalists.
So if there are a lot of whingers and moaners about English arrogance and a victim mentality then they are mainly in England and coming from the English.
Don't blame the rest of us.   

"In the eyes of the world, the English are arrogant and unfriendly.
The French had particular problems with the English – rather than the Scots and the Welsh – and were the least likely of any of the countries surveyed to visit the United Kingdom, despite their close proximity.
"The French do not perceive they would receive a warm welcome if they visited England," the report revealed.
"The attributes relating to human aspects are the weakest, with low mean scores for being welcoming, having a good sense of humour or friendliness. Most of the negativity towards Britain was towards the English people, and what was described as their reserve or arrogance."-

ha ha the French! the most arrogant vainglorious twats you could ever hope to meet. Bit like the Scots and their never ending posturing and bombast, its all hot air but not much substance. when the chips are down they will start up a Vichy government and sell you all down the river for some cheese. he ha!

ha ha the French! the most arrogant vainglorious twats you could ever hope to meet. Bit like the Scots and their never ending posturing and bombast, its all hot air but not much substance. when the chips are down they will start up a Vichy government and sell you all down the river for some cheese. he ha! - Mrs Figg

I wonder how on earth the French could have got the impression they would not be welcome in England!   

its probably their attitude that gets our back up when they visit, they have a bad rep here in Italy for being pompous, second only to the Spanish. Italians dont like the French much, and I have personal experience of it, having worked in the art tourist industry. The Japanese are the most liked as they are polite and precise, the Americans and English are also liked because they have good manners and pay without problems, the French are despised for their arrogance and you are told to watch they dont try to get out of paying, as I worked in a museum I didnt believe it at first but experience taught me otherwise.
I dont need to trawl the internet for stuff trying to laughably prove the English are arrogant, which says more about you than us.

Oh I didn't have to do much trawling- type 'english arrogance' into google and you are off with a multitude of choices.
Which was to make my point above nothing more, that this has nothing to do with Scots, its not a Scottish thing as you seemed to be saying before, something we cooked up thanks to a 'chip on our shoulder'- in fact I would say out of the articles I looked at more than half of them were written for english newspapers about themselves in response to accusations of arrogance from other nations.

Mrs Figg wrote:the Americans... are also liked because they have good manners.

 

Well... this thread is going well.

Thank goodness Scotland isn't also in this World Cup.

We just party at World Cups- drinking, singing and socialising is the way for the Tartan Army. Also Scots who follow Scotland to the world up when we get in one, tend to wisely only book their stay for a week. So they go with the mind set of making the best of it whilst they can. Live the dream of world cup hope before cold reality snubs it out and wakes you up with a hangover.