All things sporting [2]

USA Today was one of the first Google News results on Murray's win and their original article (since altered) started with "England doesn't have to wait anymore" for a local champion.

 

You've probably seen this before, but:

http://www.andymurrayometer.com/

 {{{ }}}

Petty - its only a funny thing when you view it as you do. Is dont see it as being another country. I dont even really think that when we play in the football.

Trust the US media to fuck up when it comes to foreign affairs.

Is that real

Brave man or stupid ?

Looks fake to me... the ball seems to move up the shaft of the club a few inches before moving forward... or is that the gif playing tricks on my eyes?

Also, the man bottom left seems to be reacting to something completely different considering he knows what is happening.

Petty. G W Bush managed to convince a lot of people. He must have had some power in his voice!

I think was Fox News did that Lance!

I reckon thats gifs a fake too for all the reasons Lance gives.

"I dont even really think that when we play in the football."- Lance

How can you not? We play as seperate countries, under our own countries name. When Scotland play England one side is decked out in saltires the other in St Georges- the flags of two different countries. Scotland even has an unofficial national anthem in Flower of Scotland (unofficial because Westminister wont allow us to have our own anthem).
Seems like two countries, especially at football.

"Its only a funny thing when you view it as you do."-Lance

Yes but that view is not exclusive to me- its a fairly general view held up here.
If Andy Murray had never made past a quarter final he would forever in England have been the scottish tennis player. Now he is British.
That sense in Scotland that the English only treat you as an equal when you do something they want or that pleases them is long standing.
Look at the link Eldo put up- I didnt make that, something like that exists because there is a sense up here that is how England treat and view us.
And I dont even think its deliberate, or that as a nation you realise that is how it comes across.

Petty, its a hypocracy that works both ways. When its convenient I am sure Scottish people refer to themselves as British when the royal family are involved, I have heard you yourself refer to yourself as British when we talk about them, you dont refer to the English royals as being from a different country. Also during the Olympics I am sure that Scottish people 'suddenly' became British when we started winning everything and became one nation together. Generally English people think of the Scottish as being part of being British not some separatist country, and we certainly dont understand the point scoring chip on the shoulder that some Scottish people have. Basically English people see us as being part of one family we dont understand the animosity, after all the troubles were many hundreds of years ago, and ordinary people dont understand there could still be lingering hatred, and the Whole userper thing is a bit silly in the 21st century. so I understand when Lance says he doesnt see us as being separate, I dont either, I see Scottish people being the same as Liverpudlians or Cornish or Welsh, any differences are purely historic, we all live on the same rock.

I speak of British when talking of the Royals because they are head of Britain, its a technicality, Id prefer to refer to them as what they would be if Scotland was independent, the Scottish Royal Family through King James V of Scotland.

Its our Royal Family, crowned and annointed according to our ancient ceremonies.

Thing is it plays into much more than sport and history.
We are equal nations- yet we pay in more than we get back out. We are equal nations but have to have all the nations nuclear armaments and facilities within 70 miles of our densest population centre. We are an equal nation except we have things like the bedroom tax imposed on us, even when every single scottish MP across all parties, except the 1 Tory, voted against it.
Its sadly not historical. And as I said I dont even think the English as a nation are really aware they are doing it, its so ingrained.

You pay more in than you get out? Really? Then should I be campaigning for london to be separate because I know it makes more money than the rest of the uk and most of it goes out.

Would you rather we move the subs to wales or cumbria and take the jobs with it?

Edit:

If I'm honest, I see far more of the separatist spout coming out of scotland than I do going toward it. But if you really want to be your own nation then go for it.

I think it all boils down to both sides calling themselves British when its convenient. and Scottish when its convenient.

You pay more in than you get out? Really?- Lance

Yes, according to the governments own offical figures even!
As to London it also has more spent on it I suspect than all of Scotland (it does after all have larger population)

"Would you rather we move the subs to wales or cumbria and take the jobs with it?"- Lance

Yes, take the nukes out. Poll after poll in Scotland has shown people dont want them here, especially not where they are placed.
As to jobs, there would probably be an increase- the state of the art facilities for repairing, refuelling conventional war ships and private shipping would all still be there, it would still be an excellent location for shipping (why its there now) it just wouldnt have nuclear facilities.
And it will be very interesting to see how many places in England will want it on their doorstep- I bet they dont put it within 70 miles of London!

"If I'm honest, I see far more of the separatist spout coming out of scotland than I do going toward it."- Lance

If you think about it thats kind of obvious it would be that way round. If enough people here feel like the aggrieved party then you would expect them to be the ones voicing it.
England doesnt want this- Westminister needs our resources to keep the pounds balance of payments, our hydro electric supplying the grid, somewhere to keep the nukes ect- why would a Westminister government want to make separatist noises? They wouldnt,  which is why every single Westminister party is Unionist.
Or do you think they are defending the Union  out of niceness and for own good?
All comes down to the same old thing- holding onto power- with Scotland as part of the Union Westminister is more powerful- remove Scotland and that power is reduced. And politicians never relinquish power willingly.
And on the Scottish side our politicians see a chance to gain more power- which is why even the Scottish parties supporting the Union- lib dems, Labour and even the Tories are making noises about further devolved powers- they just want more powers for the Scottish Parliament because it means more power overall for them collectively- and thats the aim of politics.

its all part of the ridiculous North South divide. I thought we had all out grown all that nonsense.

London has more spent on it than scotland because it makes more money than Scotland. At the same time, a big chunk of that money goes elsewhere.

The whole nukes thing is a joke too. Why do you want them out. Most people seem to give the misguided reason that it is because they are cold war relics and we are fighting a different war right now. And that is precisely the reason why we have taken the last 10 years to still be struggling to fight that war.

Dont he mistaken to think that just because you dont have the weapons that you will be left alone.

No we are more worried about the leaks- the radioactive contamination of the waters (which the MoD has admitted to) the dodgy safety levels (my mate used to work there as a civvy guard for a company called Shearwater, and believe me its dodgy- right down to guards kipping on their watch).
Its not just the principle of not wanting nukes- although that is a valid part of it, its all the crap that comes with having them, not to mention you could stop austerity cuts right now, not have to sack a single person more with the money saved by not having them. And still have a hefty whack left over for massive infrastructure programs, year on year.

And what does it get us? Protection? We have been war with someone or other now almost my entire life so its not helped there.
Its a dick waving privilege at the big boys club, where we strut about pretending we still have an Empire, even though doing so is bankrupting us.

I cant seem to find figures for Londons earnings or spending per year.  

However I found Scotlands, from fact checker-

'The latest GERS figures, for the financial year 2008/09, show that the Treasury spent about £54 billion on Scotland and only received £43.5 billion in revenue.
In 2010/11 the projection is that the per capita spend will be £5,795 in England and £6,833 in Scotland. So that appears to vindicate those 41 per cent of disgruntled non-Scots who think their neighbours are doing disproportionately well from the Union.'

However Scotlands revenue excludes north sea oil!

'Most of the United Kingdom’s fossil fuel lies off the coast of Scotland and so the wealth they generate should arguably be added to figures for total revenue from Scotland.
Detailed research of the money brought in by the UK oil and gas fields suggests that Scottish waters – defined by the line of demarcation used in the fishing industry – accounted for 91.1 per cent of UK North Sea revenue in 2008/09.
If calculations are made on the basis that those assets are Scottish rather than British, they increase Scotland’s contribution to Treasury coffers by £11.7 billion, wiping out the £10.5bn deficit and leaving Scotland in the black to the tune of £1.3bn.
Loss of the North Sea oilfields would mean George Osborne would never be able to reap the benefit of a windfall tax on the North Sea operators like the one introduced in the last Budget.
Most of the UK’s renewable energy resources like sites for wind and wave power stations are in Scotland, so the potential market for exported electricity would be out of Whitehall’s hands.
And there could be less tangible drawbacks like a loss of prestige on the world stage for a shrunken UK.
None of the economists FactCheck contacted thought there was a serious risk of an independent Scotland failing to survive.
The latest opinion polls mean Mr Cameron may have a harder job convincing English and Welsh voters that they need Scotland, despite analysis that shows that the contribution Scotland makes to the rest of the UK has been underestimated.'


{{{Actually Eldo could you split this conversation off to the Freedom thread, Id do it myself but Im always afraid Ill delete everything or something!}}}

If this continues elsewhere I will post... seems sport has disappeared so will stop hijacking.

Spotted outside a Glasgow pub-

Mr Salmond again?

I wouldnt put it past him!