Doctor Who
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Re: Doctor Who
And no excuse for this other than its really good. Enjoy.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Doctor Who
Fantastic!
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Doctor Who
The strangest thing about the Cushing films really is that they did not come about as a result of th epopularity of Doctor Who but as a result of the popularity of the Daleks.
This can clearly be seen in the original trailer for the remake of the 1st Doctor story which is Dalek focused to the point the Doctor's name doesn;t make it into the film title. (They also gave the Daleks fire extinguisers for weapons thinking the death ray of the tv show was too violent!)
This can clearly be seen in the original trailer for the remake of the 1st Doctor story which is Dalek focused to the point the Doctor's name doesn;t make it into the film title. (They also gave the Daleks fire extinguisers for weapons thinking the death ray of the tv show was too violent!)
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Doctor Who
Just watched a slew of episodes, including End of Time again (I never saw part 1!) But who's the older lady who keeps talking to Wilfred, because she seems awfully important!
In total, I've now seen Christmas invasion, blink, girl in the fireplace, planet of the dead, waters of mars, bits of the sound of drums and last of the timelords, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and End of Time part 1 and 2.
A friend of mine is making me a list, but are there any other good ones I've missed?
In total, I've now seen Christmas invasion, blink, girl in the fireplace, planet of the dead, waters of mars, bits of the sound of drums and last of the timelords, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and End of Time part 1 and 2.
A friend of mine is making me a list, but are there any other good ones I've missed?
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Doctor Who
Human nature/Family of blood two parter is one of my favourites Tin. Also Turn Left.
And I'm assuming you plan to watch all of series 5 and 6 in order (you need to as they have much more of a story arc than previous series) and they are 99% brilliant (the 1% off is for the Dalek episode).
The older lady is a bit of a mystery. The Doctor's mother is generally considered favourite although there are other candidates- his granddaughter Susan. Or his one time companion and fellow Time Lord Romana who was Head of the Time Lord Council up until they brought Rassilon back to lead them (wether Romana resigned, was removed in a coup or went along with it is unknown, as is most of the detail of the Time War).
And I'm assuming you plan to watch all of series 5 and 6 in order (you need to as they have much more of a story arc than previous series) and they are 99% brilliant (the 1% off is for the Dalek episode).
The older lady is a bit of a mystery. The Doctor's mother is generally considered favourite although there are other candidates- his granddaughter Susan. Or his one time companion and fellow Time Lord Romana who was Head of the Time Lord Council up until they brought Rassilon back to lead them (wether Romana resigned, was removed in a coup or went along with it is unknown, as is most of the detail of the Time War).
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Doctor Who
One last question (sorry!) Is Capatain Jack gay?
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Doctor Who
The word generaly applied to him is omnisexual! He will have a go with anything that is sentient. Male, female, or alien species of unknown gender Jack is always game.
And I could talk Who all day Tin so never worry about asking questions. Ask away.
And I could talk Who all day Tin so never worry about asking questions. Ask away.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Doctor Who
Boy its been a bit worryingly quiet around here. Where is everyone?
Anyhow heres my take on the season finale. As always contians massive SPOILERS!!!! Do not read if you have not watched the episode as reading this will not only spoil this episode but about 2 years worth as it ties so much up left dangling. You have been warned.
The Wedding of River Song.
So here we go- the finale. Forty five minutes to answer two series worth of questions. Hell of a challenge. So how did it go?
Well typically of Moffat he starts with a curve ball. Its 5.02pm all the time. Steam trains above London, cars been carried by air-balloons. Charles Dickens on Breakfast TV talking about his Christmas special: “It involves the past, present, future and ghosts”. (Ooh Moffat you cheeky devil!)
News reports of Caesar Winston Churchill returning from Gaul on his personnel mammoth. What? Where are we? What the *!@! is going on? And where is the Doctor?
Well he's Caesar Churchill's soothsayer- and he keeps saying time is broken. History is happening all at once.
Doctor- “Time is frozen at 5.02pm, like a needle stuck in a record.”
Winston Churchill- “A Record? Good god man, have you not heard of downloads?”
Doctor- “So says Winston Churchill.”
The idea of a fixed point in time has a long history in Who. From a writing point of view its a handy explanation for why the Doctor doesn't always interfere and save the day. Fixed points cannot be altered and to do so has catastrophic reality-impairing effects. This was explored once before in the 10th Doctor episode about Rose's father in which a paradox is created when Rose prevents her father from dying. The results are quite catastrophic, but Mr Tyler was not a Time Lord, nor the Doctor and the results of his fixed point in time, his death, not happening is what has led to the opening of this episode and a history mash-up. And its even worse than that as history getting mixed is only the beginning, time is dying, eventually there will be no time at all.
Everything taking place in this alternative world is happening in one moment in time- 5.02pm, fixed forever, the moment the Doctor dies.
So what went wrong? Why didn't he die? A well that was down to a woman, 'hell in high heels'. River Song.
Amy- “Time can be written.”
River- “Not all of it.”
Amy- “Who told you that?”
River- “Who do you think?”
The Impossible Astronaut.
No wonder River knows, she broke a fixed point in time in her past- she refused to kill the Doctor at the appointed hour and Time collapsed. And how to cure it? The fixed point has to happen- the Doctor has to get shot on the beach.
Moffat had three choices here- we all knew from the beginning the Doctor was going to get out of it somehow- they were filming the xmas special before this even aired. But the season was always about more than just the how, it was about the Doctors journey to the point of accepting his own death and more, believing it was necessary. The Silence laid a cunning plan for him indeed.
So how will the Doctor survive his appointed hour? Moffat could either use something he had already set up in the series or pull something out of left field there was noway to predict. The latter was Russel T. Davies style of writing, but its not the Moffs. He prefers to give the viewer the chance to work it out so they were as a good chance going into this at least one of your pet theories would prove to be right.
In-series Moffat gave us the flesh- capable of duplicating anyone and used to copy Amy for most of the series and then the baby Melody/River.
And the tesselactor- the far future robot chameleon run by tiny people inside it.
My money was on the ganger version getting shot- but I was wrong. And the tesselectors appearance in this episode should have given it away. (But I still missed it until the reveal).
But before we get back to the beach there was a lot to sort out.
The events leading up to River refusing to kill him on the beach were told in flashback by soothsayer Doctor to Winston, with some Silence creepiness blended in, as during the in-between flashbacks the Doctor noticed tally marks indicating forgotten Silence sightings, appearing in ever greater numbers on his arm.
Winston- “I can smell gun smoke.”
Doctor- “We appear to be defending ourselves.”
In the flashbacks we learn the Doctor, whilst accepting his death is a fixed point, deciding he would rather like to know why he has to die first. So he goes in search of some answers to who the Silence are, starting off with a lovely scene in which he finds a dying Dalek in a wrecked ship.
Doctor to dying Dalek -"Imagine you were dying, afraid and long way from home in terrible pain. And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, you looked up and saw the face of The Devil himself......hello Dalek."
The information gleaned there takes him to meet a contact who tuns out to be the disguised tesselactor robot. And is they who deliver the envelopes to Amy, Rory and River. It's then off to play futuristic live chess with an alien Viking- live being the operative word as every time you are forced into a move volts of electricity are fed into the chess piece until your next move is the last- in return for conceding the game the Doctor gains some valuable information and its off to talk to a beheaded Dorian (from a Good Man Goes to War) in a box in a crypt full of carnivorous skulls.
Ideas this episode is not short off and they come at you thick and fast.
Back in the mashed up version of history soothsayer Doctor is rescued from the Silence by “Pond. Amy Pond.” (How long has Moffat being dying to get her to say that). Black suited, wearing a Silence eye patch (turns out they are a means to remembering the Silence after you look away and act like extra storage space for your visual memory, explaining why Madame Kovarian has been wearing one since we first saw her and how she remembers who her employers are) this version of Pond remembers all her timelines- although not what Rory looks like, used to nice comic effect. Also she knows who the Doctor is. She takes him by train to Area 52- located in this mixed up reality inside the Great Pyramid at Giza, which is stuffed with Silence captured and held in tanks, run by River Song and where Madame Kovarian is a prisoner.
It seems all the Doctor has to do to stop what is happening is touch River, this takes both of them back to 'real time' on the beach as she is about to kill him. But River won't do it. She won't kill the Doctor.
River - "I can't let you die without knowing you are loved. By so many, and so much. And by no-one more than me."
Doctor - "River. You and I, we know what this means. We are ground zero of an explosion that will engulf all reality. Billions on billions will suffer and die."
River - "I'll suffer if I have to kill you."
Doctor - "More than every living thing in the universe?"
River - "Yes"
One thing which some viewers have complained about is Amy's seeming lack of a reaction to her baby being kidnapped and experimented on. And yes she knows she turns out to be all right, but still. Well here Moffat answered that too. The Silence eyepatches are trapped and electrify causing either death or crippling agony, even Madame Kovarians, but hers half comes off. And she begs Amy for help.
Amy - "You took my baby from me. And hurt her. And now she's all grown up, and she's fine, but I'll never see my baby again."
Kovarian- You will help me. You won't want to let your precious Doctor down.”
Amy- “And one more thing about the Doctor..."
Kovarian- "What?"
Amy- "He's. Not. Here. River Song didn't get it all from you, sweetie." (replaces Kovarians eye patch and walks away to leave Kovarian screaming behind her).
Don't mess with a mothers child indeed!
The episode title, The wedding of River Song turns out not to be misleading as the Doctor weds River and whispers something in her ear telling her that it is his name. Something River clearly knows in Silence in the Library way back with Tennant (or way forward from her point of view!) but here Moffat plays his trickery card , Rule One- The Doctor Lies. As what he actually says is 'look into my eye' wherein River sees a tiny Doctor waving back from inside a tesselctor replica of himself although the viewer doesn't get this reveal until much later. They kiss, after asking permission of the mother, Amy, who has to explain to this universes version of Rory what is going on.
Rory : Sorry , I don't quite understand?
Amy : We got married and had a kid. That's her.
Rory : Riiigggghhht.
Time reorders and River shoots the Doctor as history appoints on the beach. But of course its tesselcetor Doctor, with the real one cheating time by being inside the fake, thus being on the beach and being shot at the appointed hour. Clever old Doctor.
But the Silence are not defeated, the future they were trying to prevent in which the Doctor answers the oldest question in the universe still awaits him. But he has bought time, with the universe thinking he is dead.
Looking back over series 5 and 6 it is clear this has been a housekeeping section of Who. Something which was necessary. During the Tennant years everyone on earth knew about aliens as major incidents happened at least twice a year on earth. The rebooting the universe/cracks in time took care of that removing from memory the cybermen and dalek invasions. The Dalek episode, whilst the poorest of the run probably, reset Davies 'touchy-feely' Daleks with pure breeds, restoring them to former levels of hatred of everything not Dalek in the process. The Cybermen were rebooted in the Who universe in the opening scenes of a Good Man Goes to War. And the Doctor, who had become a legend in his own lifetime, even a God to some was the last thing Moffat needed to reset to get a return to Who of old, where he just turned up and had adventures. This series leaves Who back where it began for a while with the Doctor back in the shadows no longer the famous hero of the universe. I think the show will be all the better for it from here on out.
Not everything was answered in this episode. I'm still not sure why the Tardis blew up at the end of series one-presumably that was plan A.
We know the future Doctor will go somewhere and speak the answer which will bring about the Fall of the Silence- and preventing him getting there is the purpose of the Silence. So perhaps blowing up the Tardis, the Doctor repairing the cracks and leaving himself on the wrong side was plan A- thwarted by Amy bringing him back.
Plan B was River and her attempt to kill him by infiltrating her parents before they met him and awaiting him turning up- that gave us Lets Kill Hitler.
And plan C -the fall back plan set up when Melody was a child was the astronaut suit. At least I think that is how it worked!
Sorry about this review- its all over the place and in some ways this reflects the episode which was crammed with ideas, enough for a whole series of any other normal tv show. And unlike previous finales to Who this is not so much a stand alone as it is a closing chapter. It has to be taken as a whole with the rest of the series and on that score it does superbly.
And so much I missed- the lovely scene at the end between Amy and River. The look on Amy's face when she realises she is now the Doctors mother-in-law is pure gold.
River- “'Father, dear, I think mummy might need another drink!”
And finally, with the last scene Moffat throws up the set up for going ahead and into the 50th anniversary of Who.
Dorium : “It's all still waiting for you. The fields of Trenzalore; the Fall of the Eleventh. And the question!
The Doctor- “Goodbye, Dorium!”
Dorium -“The first question! The question that must never be answered, hidden in plain sight! The question you've been running from all your life! Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor WHO?”
But before then we have xmas day to look forward to!
And one other thing I have to mention- the fitting tribute to actor Nicholas Courtney who died earlier this year and who played the Brigadier for the entire Pertwee Doctor era and into Tom Bakers as well as revisiting the role several more times, most recently in Sarah Jane Adventures. . And to use the Doctor learning of the Brigadiers death as a pivotal plot moment seemed truly fitting.
Anyhow heres my take on the season finale. As always contians massive SPOILERS!!!! Do not read if you have not watched the episode as reading this will not only spoil this episode but about 2 years worth as it ties so much up left dangling. You have been warned.
The Wedding of River Song.
So here we go- the finale. Forty five minutes to answer two series worth of questions. Hell of a challenge. So how did it go?
Well typically of Moffat he starts with a curve ball. Its 5.02pm all the time. Steam trains above London, cars been carried by air-balloons. Charles Dickens on Breakfast TV talking about his Christmas special: “It involves the past, present, future and ghosts”. (Ooh Moffat you cheeky devil!)
News reports of Caesar Winston Churchill returning from Gaul on his personnel mammoth. What? Where are we? What the *!@! is going on? And where is the Doctor?
Well he's Caesar Churchill's soothsayer- and he keeps saying time is broken. History is happening all at once.
Doctor- “Time is frozen at 5.02pm, like a needle stuck in a record.”
Winston Churchill- “A Record? Good god man, have you not heard of downloads?”
Doctor- “So says Winston Churchill.”
The idea of a fixed point in time has a long history in Who. From a writing point of view its a handy explanation for why the Doctor doesn't always interfere and save the day. Fixed points cannot be altered and to do so has catastrophic reality-impairing effects. This was explored once before in the 10th Doctor episode about Rose's father in which a paradox is created when Rose prevents her father from dying. The results are quite catastrophic, but Mr Tyler was not a Time Lord, nor the Doctor and the results of his fixed point in time, his death, not happening is what has led to the opening of this episode and a history mash-up. And its even worse than that as history getting mixed is only the beginning, time is dying, eventually there will be no time at all.
Everything taking place in this alternative world is happening in one moment in time- 5.02pm, fixed forever, the moment the Doctor dies.
So what went wrong? Why didn't he die? A well that was down to a woman, 'hell in high heels'. River Song.
Amy- “Time can be written.”
River- “Not all of it.”
Amy- “Who told you that?”
River- “Who do you think?”
The Impossible Astronaut.
No wonder River knows, she broke a fixed point in time in her past- she refused to kill the Doctor at the appointed hour and Time collapsed. And how to cure it? The fixed point has to happen- the Doctor has to get shot on the beach.
Moffat had three choices here- we all knew from the beginning the Doctor was going to get out of it somehow- they were filming the xmas special before this even aired. But the season was always about more than just the how, it was about the Doctors journey to the point of accepting his own death and more, believing it was necessary. The Silence laid a cunning plan for him indeed.
So how will the Doctor survive his appointed hour? Moffat could either use something he had already set up in the series or pull something out of left field there was noway to predict. The latter was Russel T. Davies style of writing, but its not the Moffs. He prefers to give the viewer the chance to work it out so they were as a good chance going into this at least one of your pet theories would prove to be right.
In-series Moffat gave us the flesh- capable of duplicating anyone and used to copy Amy for most of the series and then the baby Melody/River.
And the tesselactor- the far future robot chameleon run by tiny people inside it.
My money was on the ganger version getting shot- but I was wrong. And the tesselectors appearance in this episode should have given it away. (But I still missed it until the reveal).
But before we get back to the beach there was a lot to sort out.
The events leading up to River refusing to kill him on the beach were told in flashback by soothsayer Doctor to Winston, with some Silence creepiness blended in, as during the in-between flashbacks the Doctor noticed tally marks indicating forgotten Silence sightings, appearing in ever greater numbers on his arm.
Winston- “I can smell gun smoke.”
Doctor- “We appear to be defending ourselves.”
In the flashbacks we learn the Doctor, whilst accepting his death is a fixed point, deciding he would rather like to know why he has to die first. So he goes in search of some answers to who the Silence are, starting off with a lovely scene in which he finds a dying Dalek in a wrecked ship.
Doctor to dying Dalek -"Imagine you were dying, afraid and long way from home in terrible pain. And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, you looked up and saw the face of The Devil himself......hello Dalek."
The information gleaned there takes him to meet a contact who tuns out to be the disguised tesselactor robot. And is they who deliver the envelopes to Amy, Rory and River. It's then off to play futuristic live chess with an alien Viking- live being the operative word as every time you are forced into a move volts of electricity are fed into the chess piece until your next move is the last- in return for conceding the game the Doctor gains some valuable information and its off to talk to a beheaded Dorian (from a Good Man Goes to War) in a box in a crypt full of carnivorous skulls.
Ideas this episode is not short off and they come at you thick and fast.
Back in the mashed up version of history soothsayer Doctor is rescued from the Silence by “Pond. Amy Pond.” (How long has Moffat being dying to get her to say that). Black suited, wearing a Silence eye patch (turns out they are a means to remembering the Silence after you look away and act like extra storage space for your visual memory, explaining why Madame Kovarian has been wearing one since we first saw her and how she remembers who her employers are) this version of Pond remembers all her timelines- although not what Rory looks like, used to nice comic effect. Also she knows who the Doctor is. She takes him by train to Area 52- located in this mixed up reality inside the Great Pyramid at Giza, which is stuffed with Silence captured and held in tanks, run by River Song and where Madame Kovarian is a prisoner.
It seems all the Doctor has to do to stop what is happening is touch River, this takes both of them back to 'real time' on the beach as she is about to kill him. But River won't do it. She won't kill the Doctor.
River - "I can't let you die without knowing you are loved. By so many, and so much. And by no-one more than me."
Doctor - "River. You and I, we know what this means. We are ground zero of an explosion that will engulf all reality. Billions on billions will suffer and die."
River - "I'll suffer if I have to kill you."
Doctor - "More than every living thing in the universe?"
River - "Yes"
One thing which some viewers have complained about is Amy's seeming lack of a reaction to her baby being kidnapped and experimented on. And yes she knows she turns out to be all right, but still. Well here Moffat answered that too. The Silence eyepatches are trapped and electrify causing either death or crippling agony, even Madame Kovarians, but hers half comes off. And she begs Amy for help.
Amy - "You took my baby from me. And hurt her. And now she's all grown up, and she's fine, but I'll never see my baby again."
Kovarian- You will help me. You won't want to let your precious Doctor down.”
Amy- “And one more thing about the Doctor..."
Kovarian- "What?"
Amy- "He's. Not. Here. River Song didn't get it all from you, sweetie." (replaces Kovarians eye patch and walks away to leave Kovarian screaming behind her).
Don't mess with a mothers child indeed!
The episode title, The wedding of River Song turns out not to be misleading as the Doctor weds River and whispers something in her ear telling her that it is his name. Something River clearly knows in Silence in the Library way back with Tennant (or way forward from her point of view!) but here Moffat plays his trickery card , Rule One- The Doctor Lies. As what he actually says is 'look into my eye' wherein River sees a tiny Doctor waving back from inside a tesselctor replica of himself although the viewer doesn't get this reveal until much later. They kiss, after asking permission of the mother, Amy, who has to explain to this universes version of Rory what is going on.
Rory : Sorry , I don't quite understand?
Amy : We got married and had a kid. That's her.
Rory : Riiigggghhht.
Time reorders and River shoots the Doctor as history appoints on the beach. But of course its tesselcetor Doctor, with the real one cheating time by being inside the fake, thus being on the beach and being shot at the appointed hour. Clever old Doctor.
But the Silence are not defeated, the future they were trying to prevent in which the Doctor answers the oldest question in the universe still awaits him. But he has bought time, with the universe thinking he is dead.
Looking back over series 5 and 6 it is clear this has been a housekeeping section of Who. Something which was necessary. During the Tennant years everyone on earth knew about aliens as major incidents happened at least twice a year on earth. The rebooting the universe/cracks in time took care of that removing from memory the cybermen and dalek invasions. The Dalek episode, whilst the poorest of the run probably, reset Davies 'touchy-feely' Daleks with pure breeds, restoring them to former levels of hatred of everything not Dalek in the process. The Cybermen were rebooted in the Who universe in the opening scenes of a Good Man Goes to War. And the Doctor, who had become a legend in his own lifetime, even a God to some was the last thing Moffat needed to reset to get a return to Who of old, where he just turned up and had adventures. This series leaves Who back where it began for a while with the Doctor back in the shadows no longer the famous hero of the universe. I think the show will be all the better for it from here on out.
Not everything was answered in this episode. I'm still not sure why the Tardis blew up at the end of series one-presumably that was plan A.
We know the future Doctor will go somewhere and speak the answer which will bring about the Fall of the Silence- and preventing him getting there is the purpose of the Silence. So perhaps blowing up the Tardis, the Doctor repairing the cracks and leaving himself on the wrong side was plan A- thwarted by Amy bringing him back.
Plan B was River and her attempt to kill him by infiltrating her parents before they met him and awaiting him turning up- that gave us Lets Kill Hitler.
And plan C -the fall back plan set up when Melody was a child was the astronaut suit. At least I think that is how it worked!
Sorry about this review- its all over the place and in some ways this reflects the episode which was crammed with ideas, enough for a whole series of any other normal tv show. And unlike previous finales to Who this is not so much a stand alone as it is a closing chapter. It has to be taken as a whole with the rest of the series and on that score it does superbly.
And so much I missed- the lovely scene at the end between Amy and River. The look on Amy's face when she realises she is now the Doctors mother-in-law is pure gold.
River- “'Father, dear, I think mummy might need another drink!”
And finally, with the last scene Moffat throws up the set up for going ahead and into the 50th anniversary of Who.
Dorium : “It's all still waiting for you. The fields of Trenzalore; the Fall of the Eleventh. And the question!
The Doctor- “Goodbye, Dorium!”
Dorium -“The first question! The question that must never be answered, hidden in plain sight! The question you've been running from all your life! Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor WHO?”
But before then we have xmas day to look forward to!
And one other thing I have to mention- the fitting tribute to actor Nicholas Courtney who died earlier this year and who played the Brigadier for the entire Pertwee Doctor era and into Tom Bakers as well as revisiting the role several more times, most recently in Sarah Jane Adventures. . And to use the Doctor learning of the Brigadiers death as a pivotal plot moment seemed truly fitting.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
No comments on the season finale?! I am suprised.
Anyhow here's another recommended from Classic Who. One of the rare surviving 2nd Doctor tales- The Mind Robber. Very 60's.
Anyhow here's another recommended from Classic Who. One of the rare surviving 2nd Doctor tales- The Mind Robber. Very 60's.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Ok I thought for anyone still struggling I'd do a time line of River Song in pictures, following the known events through from her point of view.
Part One. The Impossible Astronaut.
Part One. The Impossible Astronaut.
- Spoiler:
- Her mother was kidnapped by the Silence and River was born as Melody Pond in the 5100's on the asteroid base of Demon's Run.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Mother- Amy Pond. Father- Rory Williams.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Taken to earth in the late 1960's she was kept in an orphanage and experimented on to be conditioned to kill the Doctor.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- The astronaut suit to be used in the assination of he Doctor is made compatable with River.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Escaping the orphanage Melody lives on the streets of New York. But illness and lack of food cause her body to die and for her to regenrat for the first time.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Calling herself Mels, River tracks down her parents in Ledworth, England and grows up with them as their best friend. Waiting for the Doctor to arrive.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Once the Doctor arrives back in her parents life Mels forces them at gunpoint to take the Tardis to Berlin, 1938 where she is shot by Hitler. Causing her to regenerate again.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Her conditioning takes over and she fatally poisons the Doctor with a kiss.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- However she comes to understand who River Song is to the Doctor and her parents and that she is River Song. She also is taught by the Tardis how to fly her and that River is the 'daughter of the Tardis' conceived in the Time Vortex. It breaks her conditioning, she resurrects the Doctor by using up all her remaining regenerations.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River is taken to a hospital in the 51st Century. The Doctor gives her their diary.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River goes to University to study as an archelgist in order to help her find the Doctor. But her past catches up with her and she is captured by the Silence and put back in the astronaut suit and put into Lake Utah to await and murder the Doctor.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- At the appointed time, 5.02pm, April 2011, an Impossible Astronaut rises from the deep to strike the Doctor down.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River however overcomes her conditioning again and does not kill the Doctor, beaking a Fixed Point in History and causing time to collapse so that history becomes a jumble.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- In this alternate reality the Doctor marries River and tells her his last secret- he is inside the tesselector robot version of himself. Realising this they return to the moment on the beach and River shoots him fulfilling the Fixed Point and allowing history to continue, with everyone incluidung the Slence believing the Doctor is dead.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- To maintain the impression the Doctor is dead River confesses to his murder and is sentenced to imprisonment. But only during the days, at night the Doctor visits and they have many adventures together and form a close personnal releationship as man and wife.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Part Two
And that is the story of River Song, so far. I think. If anyone can see any flaws it in point them out.
- Spoiler:
- River receives a message meant for the Doctor frm Winston Churchill regarding a Van Gogh painting which is a message for the Doctor. Using her hallunigenic lipstick she escapes prison.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- She goes to see the dubious merchant Dorian and procures an illegal Vortex Maipulator, allowing her to travel in time.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Leaving a message for the Doctor to meet her at the coordinates in the painitng (earth, Britain 1AD) River meets him and Amy (who she has to pretend she does not know to preserve the time lines) and they go to Stonehenge in search of the legendary Pandorica.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- But the Pandorica is really a trap created by the Silence to entrap the Doctor. This is there second attempt to do away with him in one fashion or another (the first being the poison kiss). River is aboard the Tardis when it explodes, causing the cracks in the skin of the universe. She is locked in a time loop.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- The Doctor succesfully saves the Universe and closes the cracks. But with himself on the wrong side. River uses the Vortex Manipulator to go to the time of her parents wedding and gives her diary to Amy which sparks her recollection of the Doctor and brings him back. The Doctor returns the diary to her.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Back in her prison cell River receives a mystery invitation and breaking out once more she makes her way to the coordinates on it. Lake Utah, USA. Where she is witness to her younger self killing the Doctor
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- They travel to 1969 where they discover the Silence. And Amy learns she is pregnant with River. At the end of it all River is returned to her cell. She kisses the Doctor, for the first time from his point of view and for the last time froom hers
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River is released from prison by the Army who want her to track down a Weeping Angel. She discovers it is in a private collection and being transported aboard the spaceship the Byzantine. The ship crash lands and River enlists the Doctor to assist her. Yet again to preserve the time lines River has to pretend not to know Amy is her mother, although she cannot help but show affection towards her.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River is taken back to prison in handcuffs but with the posibility now of parole. Her words to the Doctor "Must it always end in handcuffs?' here are the words the Doctor said to her at their wedding, and which in timey-wimey fashion it is River here the Doctor is quoting at that wedding. River uses the vortex manipulator to visit an older version of her mother, who has just witnessed the Doctors death. She comforts her mother and reveals the Doctors final secret to her- that he is still alive. River returns to prison.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- Rivers father, Rory visits her in prison, but it is an earlier vesion looking to recruit her to help the Dctors find his daughter, consulting her diary River realises this is Demons Run. As she is his daughter River refuses, to avoid altering the time lines. After her infant self has been abducted and removed destined for the orphanage on earth she goes to Demons Run and reveals to the Doctor, Amy and Rory who she really is.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- River returns to prison. All upcoming nd still to be seen adventures take place during this period. Eventually River is eleased from prison and finishes her archeological studies becoming Professor River Song. The Doctor takes her to see the Singing Tower and gives her a sonic screwdriver like the one he used to have. She takes on the job of investigting the Universes alargest library which has been silent for over a hundred years. She sends a message for the Doctor to come and assist her, but it arrives t early in his time stream. The day River has been dreading her whole life has come- the Doctor is now to early in his time stream to know who she is or what she means to him.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- When the Doctor, to save everyone in the library is going to sacrifice his life River knocks him out and takes his place, killing herself for him in the process.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
- Spoiler:
- However future Doctor, knowing this was how it happened gave her the sonic in order to store her as a pattern which is then transferred into the library mainframe and into a virtual world drawn from the stored information in the library. She is reunited their with her crewmates from the library expidition.
- Spoiler:
- [img][/img]
And that is the story of River Song, so far. I think. If anyone can see any flaws it in point them out.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Nobody watch the season fnale? Kafria? Ally? Nothing? I'm suprised! (And for those who dont plan to theres some lovely stills under those spoilers if nothing else!)
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Some vids from series six of Who with some of m favourite moments. But starting with a River tribute set appropriately to the song "Mrs Robinson."
All contain spoilers of one sort or another I'm afraid so if you haven't seen series six yet watch at your own peril.
Its been such an amazing series there is so much to choose from!
All contain spoilers of one sort or another I'm afraid so if you haven't seen series six yet watch at your own peril.
Its been such an amazing series there is so much to choose from!
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
I actually did watch the finale, by chance actually! I was flipping channels and there it was! Problem is I still haven't seen series 5 or 6, so...
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Tinuviel- Finest Nose
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Re: Doctor Who
Oh Tin! I cannot imagine it would have made too much sense given its all about wrapping up the events of series 5 and 6. Such a shame you have seen the ending before the beginning. Do watch 5 and 6 though its the best Who has ever been and maybe that finale will make more sense!
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Did watch, belatedly. Was away for airdate. Enjoyed it, but at a distance not sure what it is I think! may need to watch it again! (recorded the whole series from the beginning so I can watch without the annoying break!)
Loved the question - the first question, the question hidden in plain sight - thought that was genius. Loved bossy Amy too!
I think the biggest thing was the way it was out together, rather than the big fight we have been used to in the finales (or the mid season finale) this went for clever dodging of the bullet and as such left me a little disorientated, I am sure it will grow on me, but at the moment I'm not sure
(Quick aside, as I am sure you remember I ocassionally blather on about supernatural, in the third episode of the current season the female guest character was named Amy Pond, a fact that was highlighted in the dialogue although the reference never explained, made me smile!)
Loved the question - the first question, the question hidden in plain sight - thought that was genius. Loved bossy Amy too!
I think the biggest thing was the way it was out together, rather than the big fight we have been used to in the finales (or the mid season finale) this went for clever dodging of the bullet and as such left me a little disorientated, I am sure it will grow on me, but at the moment I'm not sure
(Quick aside, as I am sure you remember I ocassionally blather on about supernatural, in the third episode of the current season the female guest character was named Amy Pond, a fact that was highlighted in the dialogue although the reference never explained, made me smile!)
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Kafria- Lady of Dale
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Re: Doctor Who
I wsn't sure what to make of it first time through- as the above review testifies too. And judging from comments on Gallifrey Base I wa snot alone in this, I was also not alone it seem sin finding it better and better, richer and deeper with each subsequent watch- I've seen it three times now and it has got better everytime - I strongly recommend giving it at least a second viewing Kafria as there is so much in it and it does it in such a left field manner it just throws you entirely first time out.
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
I intend to watch it again, but actually want to watch the whole series again, so will take a while to get to it!
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Kafria- Lady of Dale
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Re: Doctor Who
About 13 hours in fact! (Still thats 13 hours better spent than watching PJ's LotR's!)
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Darn.... just reminded me I still need to clear the schedule enough to do the mega edit credit! So half term plans are going to be, online shopping order and then hole up in bed for the week to catch up on the watching!
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Kafria- Lady of Dale
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Re: Doctor Who
That sounds like a good plan to me. (And the megaedit saves you nearly 4 hours of PJ hell)
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Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who
Pettytyrant101 wrote: That sounds like a good plan to me. (And the megaedit saves you nearly 4 hours of PJ hell)
if only it had any chance of being reality!
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Kafria- Lady of Dale
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Re: Doctor Who
Well you can but dream Kafria! And if you plan to watch it all you might at least get to watch some of it!
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Doctor Who
How do I set up a poll thingy on here?- was going to have votes for best episode of series 6, but got no idea how to do it!
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
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