Doctor Who

Right then....er...well!!!! You know us Wizards and Time Lords (same thing really) never quite show up on time--but for some reason it's always the Right Time.

Right Then...Hmmm....just said that didn't I? Must really learn not to chat after watching Dr Who! His speech patterns are quite infectious (worse than Captain Kirk's). Anyway...As I was saying (well, not really...bit of a sidetrack actually), the good Doctor's distinctive (a bit mad I should say...not unlike a certain Hobbit...or was that a certain Wizard--it's hard to keep track of these things sometimes) communication skills are really what has defined Dr Who's character since Tom Baker and made him Marvelously Splendid (I loved Jon Pertwee, but he was more Cranky Eccentric, than Quirky Eccentric).

Well, the ones in between Tom Baker's run and the New Series have been a bit lacking actually. Eccleston, Tennant, and now Matt Smith have been brilliant Dr's.

Right Then ...(oops, did it again didn't I. Probably stuck in a Time Loop)...on to what I was on about to begin with. I have been recording Dr Who since the beginning of the newest season and just sat down for lovely overnight marathon (only got through the first bits so far, but I was just bursting to get this out before I got any further into the Pirates of the Caribbean episode).

The Silence...an odd thread running through the entire Matt Smith / Amy Pond pairing (quite a lovely couple. That bloke Rory...bit of a third wheel eh! Don't really need him). I feel a bit sorry for River Song. That was a very poignant moment, and I'm curious as to where that is heading (these Time Travel paradoxes do get muddling). But, in the end, as important as she may be to the Doctor's Future, I think the BIG STORY is the Doctor, Amy Pond, their love child, and the Silence.

A momentary look back at The Silence: The Doctor's worst enemies in the Smith Series' all have a habit of being seen just when they're out of sight...That Snake Monster thingy at the beginning...those Horrid Creepy Weeping Angels (given me my worst nightmares since the Daleks when I was a wee lad),...and now the Horrible Creepy Area 51 Aliens that had actually been on Earth since before modern humans evolved (which raises the sticky question of how the Reptilians missed them. They ruled Earth before humans didn't they? Perhaps they were as befuddled by the "Greys" (UFOlogist parlance) as humans were. Most likely it was the "Greys" who manipulated humans into sending the Reptilians packing to the Underground (deeper Underground than the Greys that is to say).

Right Then...Back to Amy Pond, the Doctor, and their Love Child (wait...something about that last remark seemed familiar). I know there's some sort of connection between their child and The Silence, but it's still...tantalizing...just out of reach--I can see where they're going with this, but it's just out of the corner of my eye. And I'm afraid to look. And perhaps it's because the Doctor and Amy are headed down a similar path as the Doctor and River Song.

I fear that their Love Child (and their Love for each other) will be trapped in a Time Paradox of Epic Proportions (one that will make last season's Universe Exploding Paradox look like a picnic) which will forever doom them to Love and yet never really be catching the moments they are...um...you know...that thing with the naughty bits...which will forever be just out of the corner of their eye, and not properly remembered--which is, of course, directly related to The Silence.

I really, truly hope I'm wrong...not about Amy and the Doctor getting it on. That's Great! I hope I'm wrong because it seems Terribly and Most Awfully Cruel for the writers to deny the Doctor a nice honest straightforward Love Affair--especially after they broke the Doctor's (and my) heart with the Parting of Rose. Don't the writers understand what they are doing?

For God's Sake, quit playing God and mucking with the Doctor's Love Life. After 900 bloody years, give the bloke a break already How much more heartbreak can a guy take without just pulling the plug, and flushing himself down the tube?

It's a F******* Multiverse dammit! Don't they know that everything they write in this Universe is playing out as reality in another Universe (or this Universe for that matter. Who would know?...The Writer Blighters could be screwing with our own timeline. We wouldn't know, because everyone normal seems to completely forget stuff happens until it happens again)??????

Yes...laugh if you will. But this is not the James Randi Forum where anyone who believes in Fairy Tales is Harshly Mocked (mostly by me, with a little help). No dammit...these fictional characters are as real flesh and blood as you and I (which is fitting as we only know each other in the Virtual World). Just like Bilbo, Bilbo's secret Elven Wife Itaril, Bilbo's secret half-elven son Frodo (yes...even I play God with my [and Tolkien's] character's lives. But at least I gave them all a HAPPY BLOODY ENDING!!!!!! Which is more than I can say for Tolkien), and Gandalf.

Yes, all real, every fictional character that ever lived is nonfictional. We are all apparently living a life written on a whim by others in other Universes, which we just barely see out of the corner of our eye---before we slip into The [Depressing] Silence that Mocks us for Loving, Living, and Breaks our hearts...Sob...Sniffle...sorry,...... I'm getting tears all over my keypad.

I think I'm going to make some tea, get a carton of Ice Cream, and sit down and watch the cheerfully Throw-away Pirates of the Caribbean episode of Dr Who...Sob...hiccup...and go to bed...

GB

PS: I wonder if River Song snuffed the Doctor...to finally end his misery.

PPS: By the way. I wrote this, and I haven't read anyone's posts since I last posted to avoid Spoilers....But I just KNOW, I JUST F******* KNOW I'M RIGHT!!! BLOODY WRITERS!!!!

GB if you can work out whats going on after the first 3 episodes I will eat my hat- I'll eat your hat for that matter. I will say nothing on your speculations to avoid nasty spoilers save to say that the Pirates episode is by far the fluffiest and poorest in this series. Entertaining but completely throwaway, knock about stuff- no bad thing but the surrounding material in this series is so good it stands out as the 'weak episode', like the Daleks one from last series.

ps glad your watching- Ive missed having you chip in on the whats going on debate- hopefully with a mid season break you will soon have caught up and can have a full discussion with you and Kafria once we get next weeks, no doubt traumatic, episode over with. (And you still Gaimans superb epiode to watch for the first time- lucky you!)

Pettytyrant101 wrote:GB if you can work out whats going on after the first 3 episodes I will eat my hat- I'll eat your hat for that matter. I will say nothing on your speculations to avoid nasty spoilers save to say that the Pirates episode is by far the fluffiest and poorest in this series. Entertaining but completely throwaway, knock about stuff- no bad thing but the surrounding material in this series is so good it stands out as the 'weak episode', like the Daleks one from last series.

ps glad your watching- Ive missed having you chip in on the whats going on debate- hopefully with a mid season break you will soon have caught up and can have a full discussion with you and Kafria once we get next weeks, no doubt traumatic, episode over with. (And you still Gaimans superb epiode to watch for the first time- lucky you!)

Fluffy Bunnies are nice and comforting. Yes, the Angsty stuff makes for better stories, but only if they leave you feeling good in the end.

GB

Not sure I would use the word 'angst' in relation to this series, thats more Tennants Doctor's thing. Big, important, emotional, moving, yes, but not angsty really, although I know what you mean.
The Pirates episodes is fun and fair enoug, one for the kids, as I say entertaining, but I haven't been able to get enough of the story arc episodes this time round, even when the surroundings eps (like Gaimans) are up there with the best of Who.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Not sure I would use the word 'angst' in relation to this series, thats more Tennants Doctor's thing. Big, important, emotional, moving, yes, but not angsty really, although I know what you mean.
The Pirates episodes is fun and fair enoug, one for the kids, as I say entertaining, but I haven't been able to get enough of the story arc episodes this time round, even when the surroundings eps (like Gaimans) are up there with the best of Who.

Yeah! Angst does sound a bit...Emo. But if agree with that (and i do) then I would have to disagree that Tennant was Emo.

I think Sturm und Drang is probably what I really meant. A lot of Big Epic stuff and an Emotional roller coaster at the same time.

GB

Tennant the emo. Dunno about that but he was certainly the most angst ridden doctor of them all I reckon. Everything for Tennants Doctor was of massive universe importance and he got pretty angsty about it all. Part of my enjoyment from Smith's doctor derives from the portrayal of the mad old man who stole a magic box- the child like glee at just being out their exploring and doing stuff is back, something Tennants Doctor tended to lack.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Tennant the emo. Dunno about that but he was certainly the most angst ridden doctor of them all I reckon. Everything for Tennants Doctor was of massive universe importance and he got pretty angsty about it all. Part of my enjoyment from Smith's doctor derives from the portrayal of the mad old man who stole a magic box- the child like glee at just being out their exploring and doing stuff is back, something Tennants Doctor tended to lack.

What can I say? To me they are all the same character at a different point in his life (I sort of ignore the ones between Tom Baker and Eccleston).

GB

I agree and at that point in his life when he was Tennant he was angsty with delusions of Godhood.

edit add- you should watch the curse of fenric from Mccoy era and the final two episodes of Davidsons you might want to add them in between baker and the relaunch afterwards!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I agree and at that point in his life when he was Tennant he was angsty with delusions of Godhood.

Well the Doctor never really got over the heartbreak of losing Rose, did he! Donna Noble distracted him for a bit, but despite good camaraderie, and a lot of Whiz Bang adventure, there was no romantic spark (don't know about the "delusions of godhood stuff," He is a Time Lord after all, which is just about the next best thing).

By the time he was Matt Smith he was just deeply sad and lonely again. The Romantic Spark between Amy and the Smith Doctor was like a Flare in the Night Sky for the Doctor. Then Rory came into the picture, and you can see the pain and suffering in Smith Doctor's eyes every time he looks at them together when he thinks they're not looking at him. He wants Amy as bad as he wanted Rose (and why not, they both have that sparkly blend of sweetness and spice and everything nice). He puts on the Mad Hatter's Hat (as did Tennant), but it's only when everyone else is looking.

He's kind of in the same place that the Doctor was when the Eccleston Doctor met Rose. Deeply sad and lonely, and there she was, beautiful, goodhearted, and feisty, and with a Dunce of a Boyfriend to tag-along for a bit. Who wouldn't want to ditch the dunce and fall in love the girl.

And now the poor bloke being forced to live it out all over again. All 3 doctors of the new series have been utterly brilliant at portraying the range of emotions of the Doctor's emotional life. If one is Angsty, they all are. If one is Mad as the Hatter, they all are. If one is just sad and lonely after 900 years of losing "companions" they all are. Joie De Vivre check. Zany and Wacky, Sad and Lonely, falling in Love and Broken Heart.

I honestly don't think I could choose any of the recent Doctors over the other. I truly think they are all great and that they are all The Doctor.

GB

In response to your edit, I must say that of the lot Davidson was the one I liked the most.

GB

I like all Doctor Who -even some of the Colin Baker stuff- the angriest of all Doctors and even grumpier than the original. Part of my problem with Tennants Doctor in particular is I thought the writers got lazy and felt they could just put in some Tennant being zany stuff, I was pretty sick of it by the time he bowed out (reminds me of Farscape when the lead charcater went mad and was really good at it, so they made him mad again, all the time and ruined it).
As to godhood, well Tennants Doctor is the only one I know who has risen up with arms extended like Jesus to fly across the room held up by the prayers of millions to smite evil (Master).
Oh and I got tired of RTD gay agenda, I have no problem with gay people but in real life they don't tend to go about anouncng it at every opportunity and for a while there the Doctor couldn't even take a trip on a small shuttle on a distant holiday planet without the person sitting next to him being gay.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I like all Doctor Who -even some of the Colin Baker stuff- the angriest of all Doctors and even grumpier than the original. Part of my problem with Tennants Doctor in particular is I thought the writers got lazy and felt they could just put in some Tennant being zany stuff, I was pretty sick of it by the time he bowed out (reminds me of Farscape when the lead charcater went mad and was really good at it, so they made him mad again, all the time and ruined it).
As to godhood, well Tennants Doctor is the only one I know who has risen up with arms extended like Jesus to fly across the room held up by the prayers of millions to smite evil (Master).
Oh and I got tired of RTD gay agenda, I have no problem with gay people but in real life they don't tend to go about anouncng it at every opportunity and for a while there the Doctor couldn't even take a trip on a small shuttle on a distant holiday planet without the person sitting next to him being gay.

Well that's the writers fault if you think there was something wrong with it, isn't it!? You can't blame Tennant for that. In any case, going off the deep end with Donna after losing Rose, mirrors very well some of the stages of grief. Trying to cover it up with a lot of stuff happening.

I must have missed the "gay" stuff! Not that I would care anyway. They probably had some French writers on those stories. The French love to add little nods to the LGBT community in Sci Fi, because so many people in that community love to identify with Sci Fi characters. EDIT: And you know, well...they're French!!!


GB

Nah the gay thing was RTD he has a track record and has gone on record as saying it was quite delibrate. He's the reason Captain Jack is bisexual, not that I mind, I think its worked well for the characters overall, but it is an example of how RTD couldn't resist putting gay characters everywhere. Even the little old lady in one episode is gay, I work with old people and yes, some of them are gay. One who is a lesbian I knew for over a year before she revealed it, RTD's gay characters seem to announce it with their names, clumsy writing.

And I never said I blamed Tennant, just that I found his run to become a series of Tennant expressions and face pulls and over use of the story reset button. I much prefer Moffats style and idea of the Doctor as its closer to my own. Tenants Doctor seemed to confuse being just one being with the potentail and outward appeareance of a god with actually being a god. When Bakers Doctor had the choice to destroy the Daleks at their creation he questioned whether he had the right to do it and decided not. Tennants Doctor would have done it, which it puts him in the position of Davros, who in the Baker episode asked if he would set free a germ which would destroy everything says "Yes I would. It would set me up above the gods"- Tennants Doctor is guilty of the same thing, or at least of succumbing to the same temptation. It never sat right with me for the character of the Doctor as I had come to know him.

I probably should expand about my little innuendos about the French. It's not really a "French" thing. It's part of the Euro-Cultural LGBT and Androgyny trends in fashion and art that filters into Graphic Art, Music, and Sci Fi works. Jean Giraud (aka Moebius) is one of the fore-runners of that sort of stuff. And you can see that influence in sci-fi programmes like Lexx, Farscape, and yes, Dr Who.

He was a concept designer and basically the Art Director of The Fifth Element, as well as concept and art design on films like Alien, Tron, and Willow among others. He has been HUGELY influential on the European Art and Fashion Scene, and on "Glam" cultural trends in general. Glam musicians from Bowie to Madonna, and Lady Gaga (and even Marilyn Manson) borrow heavily from the Androgynous imagery of artists like Jean Giraud. The Magnitude and Influence of his imagery cannot be overstated. A lot of his imagery influences Japanese Anime, and yes, Cyber-punk.

Having worked on Alien, his influence rubbed off onto Ridley Scott and Blade Runner, even though Giraud did not work on that film; his stamp is all over it. The Androgyny cultural-art movement has been twinned with the Cyber-Punk movement from Fritz Lang's Metropolis up through today; the offspring of Art Deco, Noir and the Man-Machine, aka the Android. It's no coincidence that Androgyny and Android have the same etymology. By definition a machine is of ambiguous gender. A machine can play any gender role. So it's no wonder really, that the LGBT community have made many Sci Fi genres, especially the Sub-Genres of Cyber-punk and Goth, such a big part of their lives.

Thus, the Man Machine has always had an Androgynous subtext. You can see its influence all over the Matrix films, which largely borrowed the imagery from Japanese Anime, which had borrowed much of its imagery from the Euro Cyber-Punk imagery. Its in the Rave Scenes, in the Machine World designs, and in the costume and character designs.

I could go on and on, but i think you get the point. It would actually be really hard to make to make nearly any Sci Fi film without bumping into these subtexts and imagery. Though some American directors like Michael Bay make a hard effort to avoid such contexts by amping up the Testosterone Level in his Sci Fi movies. Which ironically just plays right into the Fantasies of many LGBT's.

GB

That may well be GB, and I have no reason to say otherwise but the gayness in the Doctor Who scripts in the RTD period is not driven by art direction or costume design but by RTD. Before he did Doctor Who he wrote "Queer as folk" he is well known as an outspoken exponante of all thing gay, and fair enough, but in his Doctor Who run it was clumsy and all too frequent. Way over played and crudely implemented.

Pettytyrant101 wrote: Tenants Doctor seemed to confuse being just one being with the potentail and outward appeareance of a god with actually being a god. When Bakers Doctor had the choice to destroy the Daleks at their creation he questioned whether he had the right to do it and decided not. Tennants Doctor would have done it, which it puts him in the position of Davros, who in the Baker episode asked if he would set free a germ which would destroy everything says "Yes I would. It would set me up above the gods"- Tennants Doctor is guilty of the same thing, or at least of succumbing to the same temptation. It never sat right with me for the character of the Doctor as I had come to know him.

Having already thoroughly addressed the "gay" issue. I'll just respond to the above.

Yes, the writers did play around with the issues facing the Doctor during Tennant's run. But again, the character direction matches very well with the transitory and difficult nature of Choices fueled by past decisions, or future decisions that the Doctor might not have made yet. It's very easy for me to see Tennant's Doctor questioning some of his prior decisions regarding the Daleks. The Dalek's Primary Purpose was simply to "Exterminate," which is an aspect of them that is far more terrifying than that of the Borg or the Cyber-Men.

I challenge you to put yourself in the Doctor's shoes in that exact point in time as Tennant's Doctor, knowing what he knew, and racked with guilt at the destruction wrought across the Galaxy and the Universe which he might have stopped. It's the same position as trying to decide after going back in time, whether to kill Hitler or not.

It's not a matter of "Playing God." It's very clear that for all intents and purposes he IS a God of sorts, with all the frailties and foibles of a Human. He has to weigh God-like decisions all the time, and despite being practically immortal, he has all the emotions of mortals on top of it. Most people in that position would go mad. Sometimes the Doctor's apparent madness is hiding something deeper, and sometimes he's just gone over the deep-end with the unbearableness of it all.

I may like Unrealistically Happy Endings, and giving a bloke a well-earned break from his burdens, but when it comes down to it; for a man in his position, nearly any relationship he had would be fleeting and transitory. I'm not really arguing that you ought to like Tennant, or what the writers do to him; I'm just pointing out that your stated reasons for your not being altogether happy with the situation aren't necessarily in line with what the character, as a real flesh and blood person, would probably be going through emotionally.

In a way; I think your problem with Tennant and his writers nearly mirror (in that it is the same but opposite of) my own problems with the writers in general; my yearning to see the Doctor's character Set Free from his Burdens, to allow him a bit of Happiness without cruelly snatching it away from him all the time. Why can't he have a meaningful, and loving relationship for an extended period of time? (And I don't mean River; she's not my type, and I don't think she's the Doctor's type either Though perhaps she is the Future Doctor's type)

In the end, I know it's all down to schedules and the coming and going of actors, but that's not a hurdle that Dr Who is actually constrained by. It's easier done in Dr Who than in James Bond because of the Inherent Nature of the Doctor's Story. It's built-in.

I couldn't find a proper place to squeeze this in:

One thing for you to consider while tossing these thoughts around about the way you think the Doctor ought to be (which is fine, as I said we all have our own needs and expectations for his character), is the way the Doctor remarks that he thinks it's kind of cool that River is so good at killing. That's not the Doctor of Tom Baker's day either. In a way, the Sturm und Drang he went through as Tennant Doctor; the temptation to Exterminate the Exterminators, has grounded him a bit and followed through into Smith's Doctor. It shows that the Doctor at this point and time is ready to accept that occasionally killing, particularly in Self-Defense or the Defense of others, is not always a bad thing.

It is a point he has come to through his experiences, knowing that the Daleks would come to destroy everything he loved. Yeah....I know...I beat up on the writers for not cutting the Doctor a Break. But I'm damned if it doesn't seem like The Doctor is writing his own script.

GB

Pettytyrant101 wrote:That may well be GB, and I have no reason to say otherwise but the gayness in the Doctor Who scripts in the RTD period is not driven by art direction or costume design but by RTD. Before he did Doctor Who he wrote "Queer as folk" he is well known as an outspoken exponante of all thing gay, and fair enough, but in his Doctor Who run it was clumsy and all too frequent. Way over played and crudely implemented.

Just makes my case even stronger!

GB

The difference for me is Bakers doctor confronted with the decision, and he knew what terrors the daleks were going to unleash and says so, chooses not to do it in the end not just becasue he feels its not his right, but because he cannot see all the possible outcomes and ramifications. He muses on the fact whole Empires have put aside wars to join together because of the Dalek threat, he can see the good that has come, even from something as evil as the Daleks, and cannot say with any certainity that removing them would be better in the long run. Because he is not a God. It felt to me like Tennants writers forgot that and confused the idea of the Doctor seeming like a God and him thinking he is one. More than any other Dotor tennants run has more religous symbolism. Now its fine thats a choice RTD made, I just happen to not like it.
You mention the Doctors morality and for me Smith's Doctor has the most dubious morality since McCoy's. He has done or said several things this series were are unusual for the Doctor, the reason I havent minded it is that it feels like it fits in the scenario and the story in a way the RTD stuff never did, it always seemed clumsy and artifical to me. RTD singposted everything- heres a big choice coming, its getting closer, here it is cue explosion, bangs, lights and the Docotr making a big decision. It was all to melodramatic for me.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:The difference for me is Bakers doctor confronted with the decision, and he knew what terrors the daleks were going to unleash and says so, chooses not to do it in the end not just becasue he feels its not his right, but because he cannot see all the possible outcomes and ramifications. He muses on the fact whole Empires have put aside wars to join together because of the Dalek threat, he can see the good that has come, even from something as evil as the Daleks, and cannot say with any certainity that removing them would be better in the long run. Because he is not a God. It felt to me like Tennants writers forgot that and confused the idea of the Doctor seeming like a God and him thinking he is one. More than any other Dotor tennants run has more religous symbolism. Now its fine thats a choice RTD made, I just happen to not like it.

Religious Symbolism: check. (Another thing some gays are big on for some strange reason) Fair Enough!

But apparently we agree that Dr Who is sorta kinda like a God who actually isn't one. Apparently the big fuss is all about the writers. Fair Enough!

You mention the Doctors morality and for me Smith's Doctor has the most dubious morality since McCoy's. He has done or said several things this series were are unusual for the Doctor, the reason I havent minded it is that it feels like it fits in the scenario and the story in a way the RTD stuff never did, it always seemed clumsy and artifical to me. RTD singposted everything- heres a big choice coming, its getting closer, here it is cue explosion, bangs, lights and the Docotr making a big decision. It was all to melodramatic for me.

Again, it seems we agree on the Doctor's Psychological and Moral/Ethical Journey from one Doctor to the next, and that the big fuss is all about the writers. Fair Enough Again!

Okay, it would appear that our only disagreement (and I'm not absolutely certain there is one on this point) is: what sucks the most about the writers?

You say it was too much Crash! Bang! Wallop! during the Tennant run. Can't really disagree, but honestly not seeing much difference between it and the other runs.

My beef with the writers is that they won't cut the Doctor some slack in his Love Life and let him settle on that score for a bit (For God's Sake. He's over 900 years old). I'm willing to give the rest a Passing Grade.

GB

"For God's Sake. He's over 900 years old" - GB

Looks better than Yoda

Ringdrotten wrote:"For God's Sake. He's over 900 years old" - GB

Looks better than Yoda

No argument there. But one would think that would make him able to attract a suitable mate.

GB

A but Time Lords are sterile. Curse of whathisname. Omega or one of those other early days big deal Time Lords. The Doctor and his entire generation (including the Master) were weaved on the Looms. Each of the Major Ruling Houses had a Loom. He was weaved out of genetic material. So his lack of an apparent sex drive, or any real interest in matters sexual, could be down to his race having to do without the physical variety for eons.

edit add - and yes its the witers. I prefer Moffats team to RTD's. And its a Tennant a bit for pulling faces all the time.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:A but Time Lords are sterile. Curse of whathisname. Omega or one of those other early days big deal Time Lords. The Doctor and his entire generation (including the Master) were weaved on the Looms. Each of the Major Ruling Houses had a Loom. He was weaved out of genetic material. So his lack of an apparent sex drive, or any real interest in matters sexual, could be down to his race having to do without the physical variety for eons.

What rubbish! The Doctor clearly has the hots for some of his "companions." It's just that the ones he really likes have Stupid Tag-along Boyfriend's. And it's kind of hard for the Doctor to get rid of them without it looking suspicious, and when he does (not through any of his own machinations of course) the girl he loves end's up stuck in another stupid dimension or is travelling backwards in time or some other Rot.

edit add - and yes its the witers. I prefer Moffats team to RTD's. And its a Tennant a bit for pulling faces all the time.

Yes, its the bloody writers! Glad that's settled then (waitaminnit...you're not actually claiming that Matt Smith doesn't "pull faces" are you? Because the only one of the recent series that didn't is Eccleston).

GB

Smith pulls some supreme faces but with Tenannt it felt like it was becoming a fallback when they couldnt think of anything to write- that hasn't happened with Smith, but there's time!

The sterile thing is Doctor Who canon I'm afarid. It explains his nievity when Amy comes on to him as well as his disbelief that they she and Rory **censored as its a spoiler if you havent seen The Doctros Wife yet**. I fear GB you are putting some decideldly non Who thinking to this. Even with Rose it was clear he fell in love, less clear he was ever in lust. Not saying Time Lords can't be, they started out breeding same way as everyone else, but its pretty deeply buried is all.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Smith pulls some supreme faces but with Tenannt it felt like it was becoming a fallback when they couldnt think of anything to write- that hasn't happened with Smith, but there's time!

The sterile thing is Doctor Who canon I'm afarid. It explains his nievity when Amy comes on to him as well as his disbelief that they she and Rory **censored as its a spoiler if you havent seen The Doctros Wife yet**. I fear GB you are putting some decideldly non Who thinking to this. Even with Rose it was clear he fell in love, less clear he was ever in lust. Not saying Time Lords can't be, they started out breeding same way as everyone else, but its pretty deeply buried is all.

Actually, It's not canon. If it was, one would bloody well think the first bloody episode of the Longest Running Sci fi show in History would be considered Canon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/apr/28/nosexpleaseweretimelords

Doctor Who once had a granddaughter called Susan: nice girl, very bright, resembled a human teenager. The British public met her back in 1963 in the first ever episode of the timeless time travel drama. Her precociousness in science so intrigued her teachers at Coal Hill School in Shoreditch that they followed her one day to a junkyard nearby and found her in a police box talking to an eccentric old man. Soon he'd whisked everyone off to the Stone Age, there to be harassed by a tribal leader called Za and the rest is TV history. And so is Susan - the first and only descendant of the Doctor his viewers have ever seen and therefore the only flesh-and-blood indication that the last of the Time Lords has ever got it on.

And, as the article also points out, the Paul McGann incarnation (shortlived as it was) is considered as canon by many Dr Who historians. In that episode the Doctor clearly describes himself as half Human half Time Lord, and gets hot and bothered and randily fondles his female "companion" (not really sure if she counts as a "companion" as she wasn't on any longer than McGann. But she clearly is on a date with the Doctor as they French kiss and grope each other). So Canon is very fast and loose, and should be considered a bit sticky. Possibly owing to incursions of Alternate Doctors from Parallel Time-Lines running into ours.

But more likely is that the writers of the Longest Running Sci Fi Show in History (it's in the Guinness Book of World Records) never paid an awful lot of attention to setting Canon in stone. And Why should they when it comes down to it??? Space and Time are wholly fluid to a Time Lord who is apparently aware of all possible Time Streams. So the sticky point regarding canon is moot on any number of fronts.

And by now, the Old Guard of Dr Who Nerds are dying out and us Next Generation Nerds (feels odd saying that on a forum as I rapidly approach 50) are all too keen (well I know I am) to see the Doctor get it on. There was Real Sexual Chemistry between Rose and the Doctor...yes it was borne of Love...but the Sparks clearly flew out of the Telly. Likewise with Amy Pond and the Doctor. As I've mentioned before, the Martha thing was friendly, but there was no real love connection.

Anyone with functioning Eye-Balls and functioning Naughty Balls can see that the Doctor is HOT FOR AMY!!!! For most of the decades of his Television existence, his chaste relationships with his companions truly boggle the mind. Of course the Dr was getting Cranky and Loony without an outlet for his Sexual, and Passionate Urges.

THANK THE GODDESS (yes, it MUST be the Goddess) FOR THE NEW SERIES!!! It at least proves that Doctors are only Human (well technically Gallifreyan with a possible Human half) despite having Two Hearts. IN FACT, THE FACT THAT HE HAS TWO HEARTS JUST MEANS TWICE THE PASSION, TWICE THE LONGING, TWICE THE HEARTBREAK OF ROMANTUS INTERRUPTUS!!!!! YES, I KNOW I'M SHOUTING!!!! IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AND THE DOCTOR SHOULD AT LEAST GET TO BLOODY THIRD BASE (Baseball term...sort of like Rounders....but even more boring if you can imagine that) ONCE IN A BLOODY WHILE!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I SWEAR, IF THEY BOLLOX THE DOCTOR / AMY CONSUMMATION I'M GOING TO F****** THROW MY TELLY OUT THE WINDOW AND NEVER WATCH DR WHO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

GB