A Song of Ice and Fire

Well so far I found the first episode already more engaging and interesting than I did the first ep of GoT.

Stick with it, it'll only get better with each episode and season!

Strangely, I had kind of the opposite reaction to the first season. I liked that it didn't feel the need to tell it's story in five minutes and kind of eases you into the world.

One of my favourite scenes in the show still is Eddard and Robert sitting around in a field just talking. It might not have much action, but it just oozes atmosphere to me. And there is plenty of action later on.

This is not the whole thing, but..

basically everything is Robert Baratheon's fault. Everything. Most of the shit happening happened because of his actions.

{{{Psst, Forest, this is what I meant by an evangelistic fanbase. }}}

NB I'm still stalled on Breaking Bad, but it's a great show, although it didn't entirely convert me until the third season. It doesn't have the begging-for-attention gratuitous nudity of Game of Thrones either, which is nice.

There Eldo is one of the things that has put me off GoT- its often just seems gratuitous to me- I had the same problem when I read the Thomas Covenant books.

It's sort of an HBO trademark at this point.  Although the books definitely have tons of sex in them too.  I can't recall which has more, but the books felt more like they were trying to present a "realistic" picture of medievalesque fantasy life than going for titillation, at least at first.  That might just be the differences in medium, but the nudity felt more pronounced in the show to me.

I think you have a point, Eldo. While the stuff in the books might be more explicit, the stuff in the series often seem more out of place and therefore more gratuitous.

it seems to have toned down somewhat recetly though. season 1 and 2 had loads but season 3 didnt.

I always felt that the books had a rather modern attitude towards many of the technical aspects of the world.
Sure, it's fairly medieval, but you get these glimpses of modern mentalities concerning wound infection, the way the body works, the power of religion over the masses, spread of disease, and modern scientific advances. These hints suggest to me, at least, the background of the author as a city-boy from the East Coast with an an aversion to (or fascination with) human bodily corruption. (The way he likes to bring feces as a dramatic element into everything is, alone, enough to indicate this sensitivity).

So the world of Game of Thrones is not a true historical world, just as Tolkien's Middle-Earth is not (except perhaps the Shire, I mean, it's basically England).
The many, MANY, references to different cultures around the world are rather obvious (African nations in the Summer Isles, Turkish and Arabian cultures in the East, Mongolian Khans), but on top of all that the author's influence can be felt in the way he brings in modernisms (and bodily functions) that I've mentioned.
It may resemble the cultures of the past, but it's a resemblance patined over with George Martin's modern sensibilities.

On the other hand, Breaking Bad is spot-on!
It speaks to people where they are. Much better Petty. Watch it, bitch!   



P.S.
I won't even go into the rampant sexuality in the show. Mostly because I was talking entirely about the books. (I will just say that although one could argue that the crudity with which the subject is dealt with in most places (any rape or harlotry in particular) may be quite accurate for the Medieval-ish setting, the ridiculous voyeuring of sexual abandon in certain of the show's scenes share a hell of a lot more with modern post-"sexual revolution" than with any historical parallels that come to mind.
Perhaps not, but it's worth thinking about.

Bluebottle wrote:I think you have a point, Eldo. While the stuff in the books might be more explicit, the stuff in the series often seem more out of place and therefore more gratuitous.

Of the series that I have seen so far, there is really only one scene I can think of that is gratuitous and isn't in the book.

And I wouldn't say that it shares more with modern sexual liberalisation. History is filled with societies that embraced sexuality, Kings that had lots of wives and more mistresses etc.

The first scene that comes to mind for me is the newly written Tyrion scenes in the first episode at Winterfell.



"Should we have another half naked girl run into the room?"
"No, two."
"Three! Three!"

The book doesn't have any corresponding scene to that. To me it feels more self contained and in it's ploace when it occurs there.   

The show is definitely gratuitous with sex in a way the book is not; it's much more in tune with real life in the book. I think Forest's point about the sex scenes in the book being a modern adjunct isn't necessarily true: just look at Canterbury Tales.

That being said, I may be boorish, but I'm not minding the sex scenes in the show at all. I'm watching for entertainment after all...

I like its bawdy side the fact it doesnt shy away from bodily functions and appetites. The tv series engages nearly all the senses, rich textures, music, colour, I can almost smell the place. Its not High Romance or ethereal like Tolkien, its blood guts, shit and sex, it doesnt shy away from PC modern concerns either, theres rape, incest, child murder, perversions of all types, psychiatric weirdness of all types, slavery, it confronts these things without much sentimentality probably as things used to be in reality. Its very like Hogarth or Chaucer, warts and all and sometimes savage.

Mrs Figg wrote: Its not High Romance or ethereal like Tolkien, its blood guts, shit and sex, it doesnt shy away from PC modern concerns either, theres rape, incest, child murder, perversions of all types, psychiatric weirdness of all types, slavery, it confronts these things without much sentimentality probably as things used to be in reality. Its very like Hogarth or Chaucer, warts and all and sometimes savage.

It's funny you should mention the warts.
In almost every single sex scene so far, what element has been consistent amid all this incest and perversion?
All the sexual partners are young, smooth, wart-free and hairless (with the single exception of Tyrion, who never gets all that naked anyway).
I mean, no offense, but Canterbury Tales my foot. This is modern "ew warts and wrinkles can't have those" pornographic bullshit.

Forest Shepherd wrote:
In almost every single sex scene so far, what element has been consistent amid all this incest and perversion?
All the sexual partners are young, smooth, wart-free and hairless (with the single exception of Tyrion, who never gets all that naked anyway).
I mean, no offense, but Canterbury Tales my foot. This is modern "ew warts and wrinkles can't have those" pornographic bullshit.

If you are criticizing the sex as being unreal, then fair point. It just looked at first that you were saying sex shouldn't be in something purportedly medieval.

But I would claim sex has to be sanitized of warts for the sake of the viewers. We're not wallowing in as many hormones as the participants, so need some wart blinders to compensate. if this makes it gratuitous and thereby annoying to you, fair enough...I won't argue the point. I am content to enjoy it, and try not to feel guilty about the double standard of more naked females than males.   

there was one female Theon Greyjoy was shagging on the ship and that was no gorgeous babe, she had teeth like a horse. I also seem to remember a warts and all sex scene with Maester Pycelle which made me wince.

halfwise wrote:
 We're not wallowing in as many hormones as the participants.

Speak for yourself.

Good exception Mrs. Figg. Still, young wart-free, hairless.

P.S.
Even with these parallels being drawn to Chaucer and whoever else that was, Goether? I still find some sex scenes annoyingly modern-feeling. The one-on-ones are ok, and even satisfying sometimes. However, when Goat-lips (Little-finger I mean) is nonchalantly instructing two of his whores on the appropriate level of audible enthusiasm to be put out while servicing his customers; well, that kind of thing feels out of place.
I think this is partially because I have to react to it as something very new and up-to-date as by traditional television standards it's pushing the moral envelope. But then again, it doesn't feel right either. I think I'm correct in that it was a show-addition (the character of Rose was greatly enhanced in the show), which only makes it feel worse.

halfwise wrote:I am content to enjoy it, and try not to feel guilty about the double standard of more naked females than males.   

Let us never say that pandering doesn't work.

Personally I can imagine the rest, dont need it shoved up my nose. Plus the sex scenes are set in a high class brothel, of course the women are going to be young and wart free thats pretty realistic.

So I finished the third book, and I don't have much of a reaction general besides saying "A lot happens.   "

Some reflections.

Spoiler:

Anyone seen the first episode of the fourth series yet, by the way?