continuing proofs America is wacko

As to America being whacko, I've always seen that as a joke, not an insult at all. Oz is full of drongos -- no, it's not! Oh, well, it's kinda true in some ways... ho ho ho... Better put my gun away now, or someone will think I have no sense of humour, what!

America is a multifarious place with lots of different people from lots of different countries. The idea of the Founding Fathers is a bit of a myth, but a nice one to have (and all countries have their positive myths and legends and have a right to have them!) America's greatest strength is the melting pot quality of the place.

Is America redneck? No, only some of it, but that doesn't stop you having a black President. God bless America. The land of the free. I'm not joking. I think it is. Some are free to respect the freedom and differernce of others, some are free to narrow America's heritage down to some myth of it being "elite Pilgrim built'. That's not true - though the Founding Fathers certainly made a contribution. But, like all human societies, there were (and are) double standards in place. Freedom of religion - so long as you weren't an Atheist, Agnostic or Muslim. (I'm not talking about the Constitution as such, I'm talking about treatment on the ground). Land of the free, providing you weren't someone else's property.

You seem to believe in a mythical Good People Time before 'minorities' appeared, Truth. But America has always been a melting pot of 'minorities' (and cultures) turned into a nation which I think is great because of all it's 'minorities', including your own.

So throw down your guns, and hug someone. That would seem to be sanity. Keep your guns locked up and only take them out when you go hunting. With tougher regulation, you'll be able to go to the "Bronks" type places more safely. I grew up in a "Bronks' type place. I still had confidence no one had guns, or only a few who I was not aware of until you heard they'd robbed a bank or killed another crim.

Why would someone you've gone to do tradework for want to shoot you, by the way? Even in America?

Not the people I did work for , when working in areas that are low income typically they are infested with drug dealers and people wandering around drinking and up to know good . When I did Cable TV work in Atlanta I did aerial construction ,we couldnt leave the truck unattended , the vagabonds would steal all of our material off the truck, there where even workers robbed at gunpoint. thats the primary reason I live in a rural agricultural area now , most people tend to keep to themselves and not cause any problems . Im semi-retired now so I do part time remodel and do alot of bass fishing and Hunting .

the truth wrote:For not trying to be offensive your post was quite the to the contrary ,What exactly are "people like me" Halfwise . The statement you made seems to me like you call into question the founding fathers vision of america ,I definately take offense , I take offense that your thread states America is Wacko , America was founded on freedom so what is your definition of freedom . the situation is definately real, Part of being free is not having other people constantly searching for ways to to control you . people like me INDEED , It was people like me and my family that have guaranteed your Freedom for the last 200+ years , There are 14 veterans of WWII in my family one of them paid the ultimate price for that freedom , so when you do some more work on changing america try not to trample the flag.

Looks like others responded quite enough, I should probably leave it be. But I think the "people like me" statement is a dangerous point of view to hold for the future of our country. Yes, American is one of the few countries to have a mythology that still has a positive effect on its politics (most mythologies have a negative effect, as we saw in the former Yugoslavia). America's mythology is a GOOD thing, and yes it was largely created by WASP types (you and me, Truth). The amazing thing is that immigrant groups have taken on this mythology to a large extent. But bad things happen when groups see the mythology as something that doesn't apply to them: many of the Black Power movements have seen America as a 'white thing', when it would be much better for them to see it as their own thing. So when I see statements that Obama was not elected by 'people like me' I worry that the promise of America will be destroyed by those who claim they are the only true America, thus alienating those who will soon be the majority here. There's no need to fear cultural changes in America so long people continue to see themselves as part of the same American tradition.

They seem wise words for a whitey, Halfy!

I think there is one Race - the Human Race. Lots of varieties, yes, with various biological (to a degree, let's not fall into the trap of overstating individual physical difference) and sociological. But so long as we have basic principles in common - and don't think our way is the only way and the only way that is not evil - then the species can yet prosper.

Orwell wrote:Keep your guns locked up and only take them out when you go hunting.

Very sensible I think.

Wow Halfwise I am really on the fence about whether i want to respond to that. Here we go , so first I was one of those people then you say Im a wasp and you are too, so in what way do mean a wasp, do you mean Im easily angered or that I am a white Anglo saxon protestant. I asked Orwell to verify some statistics ,I didnt write them , when he responded ,somewhere in the reply he stated , he was not paranoid but he wasnt american he was Austrailian. I took it that he might be implying all american gun owners where paranoid ,apparently I was wrong . then along the line you replied, the very first words out of your ( Im not trying to offend anyone ) IMO when you open a statement with those words you are going into the conversation already knowing your going to offend someone , then you said I was one of those kind of people . Then you call me and yourself a WASP , Im not sure what your intended meaning is , do you mean Im easily angered or that I am a White Anglo Saxon Protestant ? I was angered because you labled me , then you labeled me again in your last post and you knew you that you where going to push my button again because you said maybe I should let this go or something to that effect.
Are you trying to say Im a racist in a round about way . a typical sterotype Southerner or what .
You dont know anything about me on a personal level unless you formed your opinion of me from the few posts I have made .
I fill you in so you can form a better one , Im a middle aged white blue collar worker , Im not a racist though there are alot of them in the south, I have three mixed race nephews and nieces and one mixed race grandchild , I have three stepsons one of which I raised from 5wks old as my own child his sperm donor was a drug addict who didnt give a rats ass about him and two of my oldest friends are Black. mY family is a mix of baptists and methodists and my wife was raised in the Pentecostal church. I am not a regular church attendee. Do I have faith yes , I dont attend churches because I believe most of them to be hypocritical, The church has manipulated people for years and years to achieve its own agenda , History proves that and archeology backs it up. I believe from a faith standpoint all religions are the same and all gods no matter what religeon they be derived from are the same , IMO they exist as a result of mans need for faith and somthing to make them feel good about things and themselves .
Yes other people responded and they didnt piss me off , why because of the way they responded , they responded in debate form , you responded IMO with a direct attack on me personally and all you have to do is look at your post to realize that. You made that clear with your opening statements and yet I have still not made a personal attack on you. you have a right to disagree as Petty And Orwell do but not in the way you did it IMO.
maybe I should spend my spare time on another site from now on, I enjoyed this one because there are so many differnt points of view but know matter what theyre point of view is they almost all seem to be open minded and not take the personal attack approach.
So basically Im saying your more than welcome to call yourself a WASP or whatever you want to. Just dont attach a descriptive label to me when you really dont have a clue what my moral convictions or values are.
This is not meant as a personal attack on you or your beliefs ,whatever they may be .
Yes Orwell I keep my firearms totally secure under lock and key, one of the biggest problems in American society with guns today is peoples lack of responsability to secure theyre firearms and be accountable for theyre own actions .
I guess I wil have to give some thought as to whether I will continue to post here .
have a great day

Truth, yeah give it some thought but I do hope you stick around. It's good having another rural American voice in Forumshire.

I can see why Halfy's comments stung, but I think you may have read too much stereotyping into them.

Still, I guess it's only fair for us Americans to provide Forumshire with a little drama from time to time, considering all the entertainment the Brits have given us here, not to name any names.....

Even the Fjordlandians were mixing it up a bit with their Trond stereotypes a bit ago,( though they always change languages when it's about to get interesting )

You are very welcome to stay and very welcome to go, Truth. One thing we could surely not be accused of here is insisting that you must put up with Halfy. Sadly, everyone else here feels we have to, even though he is a rogue! Call it Southern (Forumshiran?) hospitality.

Seriously though, I think Halfy might have just thought you were exhibiting some racist senisitivities. The thought crossed my mind too. Being racist btw I don't think actually will see anyone excluded here, but there will surely be some feisty defences as Forumshirans as a rule have a certain intolerance of racism. Indeed, most or all of us are racist against racists, methinks. But having read your last post, I'm a little more confident you're not a racist. Nor a gun nut. Nor an American whacko.

But nonetheless, please only stay if you feel comfortable to do so.

Oh I meant to tell you Orwell , you said you dont choose to carry your firearm when off duty, Intrestingly enough In Georgia (Im not sure about the rest of the states ) Police officers are required to carry a gun even when they are off duty .

It's the opposite here. I haven't got a gun licence so can only have one on duty. I'm more than happy with that. In Georgia there may a very good reason to carry them off duty. I suppose if one was to assist someone off duty, then a cop there might come up against a felon with a gun. Here if I involved myself off duty, I'd be reasonably confident the felon didn't have one.

that makes sence . Maybe I was a little overly sensative earlier ,I will put a thicker skin on .

No need for a thicker skin here, just maybe be a duck who lets water run off it's back now and then, like we all do dealing with the likes of Halfy and Dave and Petty

We can have a rousing fight here, but at the last we never expect people to change their view just because one might disagree. What we like to see here (or I do anyhow) is sincerity in debate.

Oh yes, I also like to laugh at Americans - and Scots and Norweigans and Poms and everyone else - except Ozhobbits, 'cause Ozhobbits are the Best and should be respected at all times! That's our national myth btw - you know, that Ozhobbits are the Best - though we're Humble too, and so would never tell anyone else we are the Best, even though it's obvious to anyone with a half a brain we are! (The Best, that is! )

Orwell wrote:
That's our national myth btw - you know, that Ozhobbits are the Best - though we're Humble too, and so would never tell anyone else we are the Best, even though it's obvious to anyone with a half a brain we are! (The Best, that is! )

I'll second that. I've met many Ozhobbits who fit that description!

This is why I don't come to Forumshire anymore... No respect for one's betters. None.

I apologize Truth, for offending you. Yes, the statement I quoted did make me think that you were racist and it got my hackles up, but you have abundantly proven that not to be the case. I'm sorry for misunderstanding and labeling you based on one remark, for all your other comments earlier did not line up with it and I should have taken it in context. Maybe it jumped out at me because it seemed so different from all your other statements.

Well this is the BBST afterall- this is what it is for- not falling out but coming to better understandings.
I fo one hope you choose to stay Truth.

Apology excepted Halfy. In your defence I was overly sensative . I had a lot happen over the Holidays , my Ford truck caught fire in the middle of the night in Dec , Due to a recall I did not know about and burned up and allmost burned the house down, it destroyed about 10,000 dollars worth of tools and hunting equip. + the truck so I took about a 18,000 dollar loss on top of that I have a Wisdom tooth giving me problems {{ dont quite know why they call them wisdom teeth, in my case anyways }}Life goes on and I dont hold grudges anyway,it makes you a bitter person.

Wow, if not for the very real tragedy of it all I'd say your life sounds like a sit com right now, with the hero standing there stunned as bits of debris floats down from the sky (I guess I did just say it). My sincere condolences for an extremely rough time - hope it all comes out right at the end!

I don't mind burying the hatchet, but enough of the lovin', alright...

Poms? WE are the best btw. you Ozzies have silly jumping/deadly animals, and we have nice respectable cuddly animals.

I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH (and halfwise) eating pickles upon an elphent

Has this been posted yet?

Real Time Gun Deaths since Newtown


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

And despite all the noise coming from Congress, here's where any change needs to start: at the state level where there's still the possibility of bipartisan dialog.

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Days after calling for an overhaul of gun control in New York following the Connecticut school shooting, Gov. Andrew Cuomo worked out a tough proposal on gun control with legislative leaders who promised to pass the most restrictive gun law in the nation.

The measure passed the Senate 43-18 on the strength of support from Democrats, many of whom previously sponsored the bills that were once blocked by Republicans.

The Democrat-led Assembly gaveled out before midnight and planned to take the issue up at 10 a.m. Tuesday. It is expected to pass easily.

"This is a scourge on society," Cuomo said Monday night, one month after the Newtown, Conn., shooting that took the lives of 20 first graders and six educators. "At what point do you say, 'No more innocent loss of life.'"

"It is well-balanced, it protects the Second Amendment," said Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos of Long Island. "And there is no confiscation of weapons, which was at one time being considered.

"This is going to go after those who are bringing illegal guns into the state, who are slaughtering people in New York City," Skelos said. "This is going to put people in jail and keep people in jail who shouldn't be out on the street in the first place."

"This will be the toughest gun control package in the nation," said Sen. Jeffrey Klein, leader of the Independent Democrat Conference that shares majority control with Republican senators. "All in all, it is a comprehensive, balanced approach that will save lives," Klein said in an interview.

Cuomo said he wanted quick action to avoid a run on assault rifles and ammunition as he tries to address what he estimates is about 1 million assault rifles in New York state. He made it a centerpiece of his progressive agenda in last week's State of the State address.

Republican Sen. Greg Ball called that political opportunism in a rare criticism of the popular and powerful governor seen by his supporters as a possible candidate for president in 2016.

"We haven't saved any lives tonight, except one: the political life of a governor who wants to be president," said Ball who represents part of the Hudson Valley. "We have taken an entire category of firearms that are currently legal that are in the homes of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. ... We are now turning those law-abiding citizens into criminals."

The governor confirmed the proposal, previously worked out in closed session, called for a tougher assault weapons ban and restrictions on ammunition and the sale of guns, as well as a mandatory police registry of assault weapons, grandfathering in assault weapons already in private hands.

It would create a more powerful tool to require the reporting of mentally ill people who say they intend to use a gun illegally and would address the unsafe storage of guns, the governor confirmed.

Under current state law, assault weapons are defined by having two "military rifle" features spelled out in the law. The proposal would reduce that to one feature and include the popular pistol grip.

Private sales of assault weapons to someone other than an immediate family would be subject to a background check through a dealer. Also Internet sales of assault weapons would be banned, and failing to safely store a weapon could be subject to a misdemeanor charge.

Ammunition magazines would be restricted to seven bullets, from the current 10, and current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. An owner caught at home with eight or more bullets in a magazine could face a misdemeanor charge.

In another provision, a therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat to use a gun illegally would be required to report the incident to a mental health director who would have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient's gun could be taken from him or her.
The legislation also increases sentences for gun crimes including the shooting of a first responder that Cuomo called the "Webster provision." Last month in the western New York town of Webster, two firefighters were killed after responding to a fire set by the shooter, who eventually killed himself.

Legislators wouldn't comment on the tentative deal or the provisions discussed in closed-door conferences.
"It's a tough vote," said Senate Deputy Majority Leader Thomas Libous of Broome County. "This is a very difficult issue depending on where you live in the state. I have had thousands of emails and calls ... and I have to respect their wishes." He said many of constituents worry the bill will conflict with the Second Amendment's right to bear arms while others anguish over shootings like at Newtown, Conn., and Columbine, Colo.

A vote Monday would come exactly one month after a gunman killed 20 children and six educators inside Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown.

The closed-door meetings prompted about a dozen gun workers to travel more than two hours to Albany to protest the legislation they say could cost 300 to 700 jobs in the economically hard-hit Mohawk Valley.
"I have three small kids myself," said Jamie Rudall, a unionized worker who polishes shotgun receivers. "So I know what it means, the tragedy ... we need to look at ways to prevent that, rather than eliminate the rights of law-abiding citizens."

In the gun debate, one concern for New York is its major gun manufacturer upstate.

Remington Arms Co. makes the Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle that was used in the Connecticut shootings and again on Christmas Eve when the two firefighters were slain in Webster. The two-century-old Remington factory in Ilion in central New York employs 1,000 workers in a Republican Senate district.

Assemblyman Marc Butler, a Republican who represents the area, decried the closed-door meetings by Senate Republicans and the Democratic majority of the Assembly as "politics at its worst."

The bill would be the first test of the new coalition in control of the Senate, which has long been run by Republicans opposed to gun control measures. The chamber is now in the hands of Republicans and five breakaway Democrats led by Klein, an arrangement expected to result in more progressive legislation.

Former Republican Sen. Michael Balboni said that for legislators from the more conservative upstate region of New York, gun control "has the intensity of the gay marriage issue." In 2011, three of four Republicans who crossed the aisle to vote for same-sex marriage ended up losing their jobs because of their votes.

1 million assualt rifles in one city alone- does give an idea of the scale of the problem- thats enough to arm 1/5th of the entire popualtion of my country.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:1 million assualt rifles in one city alone- does give an idea of the scale of the problem- thats enough to arm 1/5th of the entire popualtion of my country.

Don't worry Petty. If we decide to arm your country we'll make sure there's enough for everybody!