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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:56 pm

This thread has veered way too far off course. This should fix it:

http://news.yahoo.com/topless-day-york-seeks-equal-rights-bare-chests-205128580.html


"Go-Topless Day" in New York seeks equal rights to bare chests
By Jonathan Allen | Reuters – 23 hrs ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Some two dozen topless women protested in a New York City park on a hot, sweaty Sunday as part of what they called "National Go-Topless Day" to draw attention to inequality in topless rights between men and women.
There were topless men in the park, too, but nobody paid them much attention, a disparity, organizers said, that demonstrated the need for the event.
The topless women drew crowds of onlookers who took pictures and video with their cell phones.
"We say there is nothing wrong with the female nipple," Karen Heaven, an organizer of the event, told the crowd that quickly formed around her in Manhattan's Bryant Park. She was wearing white pants and not much else besides a purse over her shoulder. "My dog has six, I have two, but I can be put in jail for showing my nipples. It's 2012 -- what are we thinking?"
It is legal for women to go topless in public in New York City but laws vary widely across the United States. Heaven and her colleagues say discrimination is unconstitutional and they want full equality.
Similar protests were scheduled in about 30 U.S. cities and 10 around the world, organizers said.
The annual Go-Topless Day was established in 2007 by a former sports car journalist called Rael, who founded a religion called the Raelian Movement after he said he was visited by a space alien in a French volcano park who told him life on Earth was created by extraterrestrial scientists, according to an account on his website.
Occasional references to alien creators did not seem to register with the crowd, which focused mostly on the breasts.
"I'll show these to a few friends and then delete them after a few days," Rudy Sison, a New Yorker who happened to visit the park on Sunday, said as he thumbed through photographs and video he had just taken on his phone. "They're topless."
Several women waved signs saying: "Equal Topless Rights For All."
After the speeches, a guitarist led the crowd in a reworking of The Beatles' song "Let It Be."
"Let 'em breathe," people sang. "Let 'em breathe."

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Post by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:59 pm

Murder investigation uncovers domestic terrorist militia group run by U.S. soldiers

(AP) LUDOWICI, Ga.- Four Army soldiers based in southeast Georgia killed a former comrade and his girlfriend to protect an anarchist militia group they formed that stockpiled assault weapons and plotted a range of anti-government attacks, prosecutors told a judge Monday.

Prosecutors in rural Long County, near the sprawling Army post Fort Stewart, said the militia group composed of active duty and former U.S. military members spent at least $87,000 buying guns and bomb components and was serious enough to kill two people - former soldier Michael Roark and his 17-year-old girlfriend, Tiffany York - by shooting them in the woods last December in order to keep its plans secret.

"This domestic terrorist organization did not simply plan and talk," prosecutor Isabel Pauley told a Superior Court judge. "Prior to the murders in this case, the group took action. Evidence shows the group possessed the knowledge, means and motive to carry out their plans."

One of the Fort Stewart soldiers charged in the case, Army Pfc. Michael Burnett, also gave testimony that backed up many of the assertions made by prosecutors. The 26-year-old soldier pleaded guilty Monday to manslaughter, illegal gang activity and other charges. He made a deal to cooperate with prosecutors in their case against the three other soldiers.

Prosecutors said the group called itself F.E.A.R., short for Forever Enduring Always Ready. Pauley said authorities don't know how many members the militia had.

Burnett, 26, said he knew the group's leaders from serving with them at Fort Stewart. He agreed to testify against fellow soldiers Pvt. Isaac Aguigui, identified by prosecutors as the militia's founder and leader, Sgt. Anthony Peden and Pvt. Christopher Salmon.

All are charged by state authorities with malice murder, felony murder, criminal gang activity, aggravated assault and using a firearm while committing a felony. A hearing for the three soldiers was scheduled Thursday.

Prosecutors say Roark, 19, served with the four defendants in the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division and became involved with the militia. Pauley said the group believed it had been betrayed by Roark, who left the Army two days before he was killed, and decided the ex-soldier and his girlfriend needed to be silenced.

Burnett testified that on the night of Dec. 4, he and the three other soldiers lured Roark and York to some woods a short distance from the Army post under the guise that they were going target shooting. He said Peden shot Roark's girlfriend in the head while she was trying to get out of her car. Salmon, he said, made Roark get on his knees and shot him twice in the head. Burnett said Aguigui ordered the killings.

"A loose end is the way Isaac put it," Burnett said.

Aguigui's attorney, Daveniya Fisher, did not immediately return a phone call from The Associated Press. Attorneys for Peden and Salmon both declined to comment Monday.

Also charged in the killings is Salmon's wife, Heather Salmon. Her attorney, Charles Nester, did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

Pauley said Aguigui funded the militia using $500,000 in insurance and benefit payments from the death of his pregnant wife a year ago. Aguigui was not charged in his wife's death, but Pauley told the judge her death was "highly suspicious."

She said Aguigui used the money to buy $87,000 worth of semiautomatic assault rifles, other guns and bomb components that were recovered from the accused soldiers' homes and from a storage locker. He also used the insurance payments to buy land for his militia group in Washington state, Pauley said.

In a videotaped interview with military investigators, Pauley said, Aguigui called himself "the nicest cold-blooded murderer you will ever meet." He used the Army to recruit militia members, who wore distinctive tattoos that resemble an anarchy symbol, she said. Prosecutors say they have no idea how many members belong to the group.

"All members of the group were on active-duty or were former members of the military," Pauley said. "He targeted soldiers who were in trouble or disillusioned."

The prosecutor said the militia group had big plans. It plotted to take over Fort Stewart by seizing its ammunition control point and talked of bombing the Forsyth Park fountain in nearby Savannah, she said. In Washington state, she added, the group plotted to bomb a dam and poison the state's apple crop. Ultimately, prosecutors said, the militia's goal was to overthrow the government and assassinate the president.

The Army brought charges against the four accused soldiers in connection with the slayings of Roark and York in March, but has yet to act on them. Fort Stewart spokesman Kevin Larson said he could not comment immediately on the militia accusations that emerged in civilian court Monday.

District Attorney Tom Durden said his office has been sharing information with federal authorities, but no charges have been filed in federal court. Jim Durham, an assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Georgia, would not comment on whether a case is pending.
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Post by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:00 pm

Wow, that's quite the mood-whiplash after simultaneously posting with Halfwise. Laughing
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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:03 pm

I was going to be amazed at your quick response until I saw the entirely different topic. Jeez, Georgia too.

As for my topic, I think the Venetians put up a much better argument for the cause. At least, their people make me want them to go topless.

http://www.laweekly.com/slideshow/national-go-topless-day-in-venice-nsfw-34111793/

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:38 pm

I cant believe that article doesnt have pictures Halfwise- how disappointing.
Now the Ventian one- I fully suport their stance. Nod

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Post by David H Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Venetians v. Venusians
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:57 pm

Do they have nipples on Venus?

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:30 pm

Going back and looking at what Eldo posted, members of the army planning a base takeover and wholesale attack on the government?! Shocked Killing fellow members of the base and a teenage girlfriend to keep things quiet? Crying or Very sad

this is pretty incredible, and possibly just the tip of an iceberg. Lifetime imprisonment for all involved would be just barely adequate.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 pm

A mini coup really. Is that not treason in the US?

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Post by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:43 pm

I had the same thought, Halfwise. We get terrible news stories every day but this one jumped out as something more than normal. I can only hope that these people never actually had a chance at realizing their plan but the amount of money they were dealing with suggests that they may have been farther along in planning than most would-be terrorists get. Pretty horrible all around and my sympathies go out to the families and friends of the deceased.

I'm sure the guy who cut a deal with investigators will get less time but I hope the hammer falls on the others (assuming all the allegations are true). I think this would count as either sedition or treason but it doesn't sound like those charges have been brought against the suspects yet.
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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:48 pm

yes, coming from members of the military it well and should count as treason.

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Post by David H Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:03 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Do they have nipples on Venus?

I'm not sure about nipples, but this look promising. continuing proofs America is wacko - Page 26 Medium_La_nave_de_los_monstruos

The Mexican Beauty Queen Who Captures Alien Monsters For Fun

Meet Beta, a woman from Venus who collects alien monsters as a hobby. She's the heroine of La Nave de los Monstruos (Ship Of Monsters), a classic film that's showing tomorrow as part of a celebration of Mexican science fiction in New York.

Or perhaps they look like this. I'm not certain....continuing proofs America is wacko - Page 26 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHu-2fTkfBQfqjxa80m4kT_hZg1eZB8s9-z7dQ_X2zhIA5w7ohHncdK7U1
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:14 am

I think Ive dated that last one. Shocked

{{{ps Dave check your pm's}}

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Post by Eldorion Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:33 pm

EDIT: Meant to post this in the election thread.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:48 pm

'Two venerable American gun manufacturers — Remington and Colt — could head for the West their weapons helped win if New York and Connecticut force them to implement microstamping technology.
Supporters of the technology say it will be a “game changer,” allowing authorities to quickly identify the registered guns used in crimes.
Implementation of microstamping technology would cost roughly $12 per gun and would go a long way to helping solve crimes.
New York Assemblywoman Michelle Schimel said, “It’s unfair of them to resist sensible regulation to save lives. It does not impact lawful gun ownership at all.”
“Mandatory microstamping would have an immediate impact of a loss of 50 jobs,” New York State Sen. James Seward, a Republican said.
Meanwhile, in Connecticut, similar microstamping legislation has long been opposed by Colt, whose executives have claimed the “feel-good legislation” would drive gun manufacturers out of the state.'

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Post by David H Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:34 pm

This is a perfect example of something that needs to be tried by one or two progressive states first to see how it works. How useful this technology would be to law enforcement is hard to answer without some real world data. It could be a game changer, or just be more paperwork and money in the pocket of the inventor.

California tried this a couple years ago, but I don't think it ever got implemented.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:41 pm

I suppose its beyond all reason the gun companies would take a part of the $12 hit from senior managment wages and bonuses in the name of responsible business and saving lives.
If the stats dont bear it out the scheme can be scrapped.
And on the government side they can agree to invest in the companies to help with initial costs of converting in return for shares and then once the government money has been recouped their stake is sold off. Thus making the government a small profit unless guns shares go down, which probably isn't likely in the near future.

Or is that too mad?

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Post by Eldorion Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:09 am

You think that the pro-gun crowd, which is largely right-wing, would be more likely to agree to a scheme in which the government takes on partial ownership of a private firm? Laughing

I think Dave is right about implementing this in a few states first. It's a part of the federalist system that works pretty well.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:23 am

Ah but the government wont need to own much- about 4% of the company in shares- as they can afford to play a long term game- and as soon as the taxpayer is payed back for the initial investment the government get out the company.
And the benefit to the company is they dont need to front the cash for the changes themselves, or pay back the taxpayer in large sums, they can pay it back the American way- in shares. Very Happy

Nobody loses out and fewer people might get shot and gun crime might become that bit harder to get away with.

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Post by Eldorion Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:42 am

The principle of the issue is the sticking point, Petty. The government investing in private business as part of the auto industry bail out a few years back caused a huge shit storm and that was during an economic emergency. With an already controversial issue like gun control...

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Post by Orwell Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:53 am

Gun crime? Killing your wife, or robbing a bank? Might make a difference knowing which one we're talking about.

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Post by David H Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:00 am

The micro-stamp on the firing pin wouldn't do anything to reduce gun crime of any type.

It might increase convictions by making it easier to connect shell casings at a crime scene with a particular firearm, assuming the records have been kept properly, people don't replace or file the firing pin, pick up their shells, uses an older gun etc.

But a lot of times there's no doubt about which gun fired the shot in the first place, in which case micro-stamping makes no difference at all.

This might be a useful technology, or it might be a waste of time and money. There's really no way to tell until until some state tries it for a few years .

As far as funding, Petty, the way this would typically be handled in this country is with an investment tax credit, where the business gets to count a certain percentage of the cost invested as a payment on their income tax. Republicans like tax cuts, but they HATE government intervention. It's all about the packaging. Rolling Eyes
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:22 pm

The principle of the issue is the sticking point, Petty.- Eldo
It's all about the packaging.- David

The usual problem then- ideology overruling everything else, often including what might be the better solution (not that Im saying in this case my proposal is- but I wonder how often governments of both shades pick a policy that is not the best most effective one for the problem, but fits ideology? 99% of the time probably)

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Post by Eldorion Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:31 pm

I don't really disagree, but that's just the way democratic governments work. They have to compromise and work to appease all sides.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:48 pm

Im not sure its inherent to democracy though, that its required.
In theroy you could have a system with no parties at all- which would seem like a better idea to me.
Did you not once tell me this was in fact the idea for America originally? No Parties? Or am I misremebering Eldo?

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