Faramir and other changes

counter crabbit is an art form, you make the crabbitee explode with crabbit, then you just sit back  

The silver button to Eldorion!

I won't comment on the scene with Theoden seconds after this though. And at least Mrs Figg knows I'm of the male gender

 

some seemed unsure when I first arrived

only a man could be so contrarymary.

 s'ok  Petty is ten times worse.

Thank you, Elthir!

I have a guess as to what might bother you about the subsequent Theoden scene. I used to know a couple guys who hated that scene.

malickfan wrote:Perhaps we should open a dedicated Praising Peter Jackson thread?

Not forgetting the Saul Zanetz appreciation society and the Ralph Bakshi is a genius thread...

Yep, open them and leave them blank.

Petty might post in the Ralph Bakshi is a genius thread. He has some strange opinions about that film.

Not half as strange as some of the ones people have about Pj's attempt.  

Been thinking about the fans, unfans, purist thing. I think each term has its own hidden judgement values non of the terms are free from implications and are neutral. Fans implies uncritical fangirling, unfans and purist implies dislike of everything Jackson does, when the reality is far more complex. I think it would be safe to say a lot of subjective taste values comes into it, the films appeal to me because they appeal to my taste, they appeal to whatever values aesthetic or otherwise I have accumulated. The films dont appeal to me on an intellectual level like say a film by an auteur director, but on an emtional and painterly level, I love the textures and colours he uses. Something about them strikes a cord so accuracy as regards the fine details of the Elven spoken or the percentage of original dialogue used passes me by. There is always the possibility that Jackson could have cut out some of the spectacular or more romantic scenes but I wonder whether they would have been as impactful to my imagination. He managed to reproduce ME as I had imagined it, or better, he had me in the first scenes of Hobbiton.

he had me in the first scenes of Hobbiton.- Mrs Figg


I wonder, given TH opens in hobbiton, uses the same sets, the same designers and is filmed by the same director, if, had Pj's LotR's not existed, you would now be defending TH as 'working' for you on a painterly level?

And if you think not, what's the difference?

Firstly I didnt say TH worked for me on a painterly level, because it doesnt.

Secondly PJ used video not film this time so the visual quality is different no matter how subtle the difference.

Visually TH is lovely, Hobbiton looks almost the same, but there is something missing, call it that mysterious indefinable 'magic', it looks almost the same but it doesnt feel the same. and they may have used the same crew but this time New Zealand looked like New Zealand in a lot of places.

I did not say it worked for you on that level- I was just speculating in light of your comment if LotR's had not been made if TH Hobbiton would have worked for you.

"but there is something missing, call it that mysterious indefinable 'magic'"

That's fair enough, I don't suppose you could hazard at what that something might be though?


"New Zealand looked like New Zealand"

I thought that first time out with LotR's!

LOTR doesnt look like NZ it seems more like some generic medieval landscape. In TH I noticed the Flora was tropical, for eg the forest with Gandalf and Radaghast while great looking, it was obviously tropical not Northern and/or English looking.

whats missing? its soul I guess, hard to pin down in words, bit like a perfect waxwork dummy.

LOTR doesnt look like NZ- Mrs Figg

It did to me!

"it was obviously tropical not Northern and/or English looking."

Hey! Thats MY complaint about the grass and trees ect in LotR's that you much maligned!  

yes but in LOTR it wasnt valid.  

 {{{{Bloody Wimmin!!}}}}

  counter-crabbit

I have a guess as to what might bother you about the subsequent Theoden scene. I used to know a couple guys who hated that scene.

Hmm. Interesting. Imagine the voice of Inigo Montoya here: 'I must know'

Although I'll understand if you quote the Man in Black in response  

Get used to dis- ... oh alright.

To the best of my memory (and not wanting to put words in anyone's mouth), the main reason that people didn't like it was either they (1) thought it was maudlin, or (2) the main criticism, that the sentiment that "no parent should have to bury their child" is exclusive to modern societies, and Rohan would have had just as horrendously high infant mortality rates as comparable real world societies.

I don't know for sure what your issue with the scene is, of course, but your comment reminded me of this.

yeah but Bernard Hill was one of the best things in LOTR

I do love me some Bernard Hill. Both the "DEATH!" scene and his death scene are among my favorite moments in ROTK.

he's the coolest cat in Middle Earth. He starts off a bit meh with the Whole creepoid Saruman dummy thing, and by the Charge he is about the most magnificent thing I ever saw on film.

I personally don't like the purist/fanboy/apologist terms. Everyone's opinion is at least a little nuanced and simply categorizing or strictly defining someone's view (on anything) limits it. It also creates borders, "whose side are you on?" Etc.
Whenever that terminology cropped up back in Bree I always fought it.

Mrs Figg wrote:yeah but Bernard Hill was one of the best things in LOTR

 

Eldorion wrote:I do love me some Bernard Hill.  Both the "DEATH!" scene and his death scene are among my favorite moments in ROTK.

As necessary as they are for the time and setting, I found the helmets worn by Eowyn, and to a lesser extent, Theoden, to work unpleasantly as emotion-concealment devices: it was difficult to fully connect with their characters when their faces were so concealed.

As far as I remember, Theoden's helm had a similar design to Eomer's in the film, but as "Dernhelm" Eowyn's helmet was stupidly annoying in how much it covered. She could have been missing a nose for that whole sequence of the film and nothing would have appeared amiss!
And yes, I know that in the book Eowyn sports a helmet, with a visor, which conceals her face enough that Merry cannot even recognize her. However, considering that in the film Merry recognizes her immediately (no mention is even made of "Dernhelm") I would have greatly preferred a different appearance for her battle-garb.

More like Darnhelm...

The main problem with Bernard Hill is of course his age. Theoden in the books is already facing his own mortality even if there isnt a war,
I like Hill, I like his performance (given what he had to work with scriptwise) but they could have made him look older.