Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[Gandalf's Beard]

GANDALF BEARD POSTS SMILEY FACE!


HOORAY!


First reported HERE! Your "accurate" journal.


An elephant sometimes forgets but nearly always remembers later.

Aaaaaaaaargh!!! Nooooooo....don't...make...me...do it!

GB

[odo banks]

Respect!!!!!!

[Eldorion]

PS: (You know I mean this with love Eldo )

Right back at you, Beardie.

[Gandalf's Beard]

Respect!!!!!!

Nothing but the utmost Odo!

GB

[odo banks]

(((((...and all the effort I went to, to invite him back... )))))

[Pettytyrant101]

[Gandalf's Beard]

Looks like Demjanjuk was finally convicted of Nazi war-crimes.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/12/germany.demjanjuk.trial/index.html?iref=storysearch

I guess Israeli prosecutors were so pissed that they couldn't prove Demjanjuk was Ivan the Terrible, they concocted a new case against him and kicked it over to Germany to conduct the new case. I suppose Israeli Prosecutors thought it might look fishy if they conducted the second trial.

GB

[odo banks]

You make the Jews sound like Nazis, GB ------- or Israelites from the time of Moses!

[Gandalf's Beard]

You make the Jews sound like Nazis, GB ------- or Israelites from the time of Moses!

I posted the exact same post above at The Leaky Cauldron...with one exception. I posted a disclaimer pointing out that I am 1/2 Jewish from my father's side. I didn't think I'd have to make that disclaimer here.

As it so happens though, I am Anti-Zionist. And I think that the way Israelis have treated the Palestinians since the Western Powers carved Israel out of Palestine in 1948 amounts to Ethnic Cleansing. Frankly, I am appalled and ashamed that so many Jews forgot the lessons of the Holocaust within a few short years after the end of WW II.

GB

PS:(Yes, I know that you were being sarcastic )

[Eldorion]

I'm not really familiar with the Demjanjuk case since I've only read sporadic reports on it over the years, but - specific details of this case aside - doesn't putting him on trial repeatedly count as double jeopardy? For all I know the guy really was a guard at a concentration camp, but from the little I've read the way the case was handled doesn't sound very just.

[Gandalf's Beard]

I'm not really familiar with the Demjanjuk case since I've only read sporadic reports on it over the years, but - specific details of this case aside - doesn't putting him on trial repeatedly count as double jeopardy? For all I know the guy really was a guard at a concentration camp, but from the little I've read the way the case was handled doesn't sound very just.

It might count as double jeopardy in a US court of law.

But what actually happened was that the Israelis tried to prove he was Ivan the Terrible, and the evidence actually pointed to someone else entirely. So the poor guy got to go back home, only to have the Israelis concoct a whole new case claiming that Demjanjuk was some other Evil Nazi. The Israelis were pissed they couldn't get him the first time and just made up crap to get him. But the Israelis tossed the New Case to the Germans because they knew it would look bad if they tried him again themselves.

GB

[odo banks]

Racial Supremicists to right and left of us (and the Right and Left of us!) There's one Race - the Human Race. If you can breed with it, you're the same thing. The sooner Race (and Religion) are put in it's box and Humanity (and Faith) replace it, the better! Btw territorialism is for animals (or, at least, the reptilian part of the brain). Isn't it time we moved on? Here to help!

[Pettytyrant101]

"If you can breed with it, you're the same thing."- Odo

That is one definition Odo yes, but it does rather seem to encourage some disrespectable experimentation to put to the test!!

[Gandalf's Beard]

Chimp / Human Hybrids are on the way.

GB

[Kafria]

Racial Supremicists to right and left of us (and the Right and Left of us!) There's one Race - the Human Race. If you can breed with it, you're the same thing. The sooner Race (and Religion) are put in it's box and Humanity (and Faith) replace it, the better! Btw territorialism is for animals (or, at least, the reptilian part of the brain). Isn't it time we moved on? Here to help!

Strictly speaking if you can breed with it and your kiddies can still have kiddies you're the same thing! - but this would probably cue even worse experimentation!

[Kafria]

Chimp / Human Hybrids are on the way.

GB

no doubt, but only through genetic engineering, not gonna happen through mother nature!


(PS thanks for the full answer the other day, and I've been enjoying the ensuing debate, even if it is old ground for some of you. Haven't responded as I'm allowing it to cogitate. Read the start of the link though and didn't get far before the tone and language had me...... concerned is the politest way to put it! )

[odo banks]

When did I mention experimentation? Humans can breed with humans, cant they? Just like hobbits can breed with hobbits even if it means a Scotshobbit marries a Usahobbit, or a Norhobbit maries an Anglehobbit - or even an Ockerhobbit marries a Welshobbit. Why should a Western Whitey marrying a Asian be seen as any different? Experimentation? Not in the cold cold scientific sense you folk seem to suggest... Maybe we do things differently in Needlehole??? When I said "breed" I did mean "procreate with", you know. I didn't mean genetic engineering in a test tube neither. (As to chimps - that's no business of mine, GB - though I hear you Usahobbits do have some odd fancies sometimes. )

[Gandalf's Beard]

Chimp / Human Hybrids are on the way.

GB

no doubt, but only through genetic engineering, not gonna happen through mother nature!

I know, but as we are so genetically similar (only 1-2% difference) I thought it would be a humourous response.

(PS thanks for the full answer the other day, and I've been enjoying the ensuing debate, even if it is old ground for some of you. Haven't responded as I'm allowing it to cogitate. Read the start of the link though and didn't get far before the tone and language had me...... concerned is the politest way to put it! )

I'm wondering which link you are referring to. Is it the link to the PNAC document Rebuilding America's Defenses? If it is, I can find the pages that the relevant information is on and quote it, then you can run it through a Google Translator if you have difficulties with some of language. In fact I think I'll just have a peek and post it now.

REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES
Strategy, Forces and Resources
For a New Century

(commentary mine: If you recall, the name of the group publishing this document is Project for a New American Century. Despite the rhetoric regarding NATO and the US's allies, it is clear that US Hegemony must remain Supreme).

CHAPTER 5
CREATING TOMORROW’S DOMINANT FORCE
Excerpt From Pages 50-51

Moreover, the Pentagon, constrained by
limited budgets and pressing current
missions, has seen funding for experimentation and transformation crowded out
in recent years. Spending on military
research and development has been reduced
dramatically over the past decade. Indeed,
during the mid-1980’s, when the Defense
Department was in the midst of the Reagan
buildup which was primarily an effort to
expand existing forces and field traditional
weapons systems, research spending
represented 20 percent of total Pentagon
budgets. By contrast, today’s research and
development accounts total only 8 percent of
defense spending. And even this reduced
total is primarily for upgrades of current
weapons. Without increased spending on
basic research and development the United
States will be unable to exploit the RMA
and preserve its technological edge on future
battlefields.

Any serious effort at transformation
must occur within the larger framework of
U.S. national security strategy, military
missions and defense budgets. The United
States cannot
simply declare a
“strategic pause”
while
experimenting
with new
technologies and
operational
concepts. Nor
can it choose to
pursue a
transformation
strategy that
would decouple
American and
allied interests.
A transformation strategy that solely
pursued capabilities for projecting force
from the United States, for example, and
sacrificed forward basing and presence,
would be at odds with larger American
policy goals and would trouble American
allies.

Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and
industrial policy will shape the pace and
content of transformation as much as the
requirements of current missions. A
decision to suspend or terminate aircraft
carrier production, as recommended by this
report and as justified by the clear direction
of military technology, will cause great
upheaval. Likewise, systems entering
production today – the F-22 fighter, for
example – will be in service inventories for
decades to come. Wise management of this
process will consist in large measure of
figuring out the right moments to halt
production of current-paradigm weapons
and shift to radically new designs. The
expense associated with some programs can
make them roadblocks to the larger process
of transformation – the Joint Strike Fighter
program, at a total of approximately $200
billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus,
this report advocates a two-stage process of
change – transition and transformation –
over the coming decades.

In general, to maintain American
military preeminence that is consistent with
the requirements of a strategy of American
global leadership, tomorrow’s U.S. armed
forces must meet three new missions:

• Global missile defenses. A network
against limited strikes, capable of
protecting the United States, its allies
and forward-deployed forces, must be
constructed. This must be a layered
system of land, sea, air and spacebased components.

• Control of space and cyberspace.
Much as control of the high seas – and
the protection of international
commerce – defined global powers in
the past, so will control of the new
“international commons” be a key to
world power in the future. An
America incapable of protecting its
interests or that of its allies in space
or the “infosphere” will find it
difficult to exert global political
leadership.

• Pursuing a two-stage strategy for of
transforming conventional forces. In
exploiting the “revolution in military
affairs,” the Pentagon must be driven
by the enduring missions for U.S.
forces. This process will have two
stages: transition, featuring a mix of
current and new systems; and true
transformation, featuring new
systems, organizations and
operational concepts. This process
must take a competitive approach,
with services and joint-service
operations competing for new roles
and missions. Any successful process
of transformation must be linked to
the services, which are the institutions
within the Defense Department with
the ability and the responsibility for
linking budgets and resources to
specific missions.

from the magazine
In These Times
by Chris Hayes

On September 11, 2001, George W. Bush wrote the following impression in his diary: “The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today.” He wasn’t alone in this assessment. In the days after the attacks, editorialists, pundits and citizens reached with impressive unanimity for this single historical precedent. The Sept. 12 New York Times alone contained 13 articles mentioning Pearl Harbor.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2788/the_good_war_on_terror/

The following are some thought-provoking news clips from 9/11 and the days after:

[Gandalf's Beard]

The following Youtube clip uses the Star Wars Prequels to explain how democratic governance is subverted with Agent Provocateur "False Flag" Operations.

If there is any fault, it is that the prequels don't go far enough into the complexity of a Class Analysis of the events. Had they done so, they would have demonstrated that Palpatine, in fact, was the Front Man of the Plutocracy; a Strong Man Authoritarian Leader who would protect the interests of the Wealthy and Powerful with a Gloved Iron Fist.



The next clip uses Terry Gilliam's Brazil to depict the smoke and mirrors sleight of hand behind current events.



Fair Warning though, if anyone follows the links to Infowars.com they will find a site run by Alex Jones, a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist who also traffics in some of the nuttier conspiracy theories that target foes such as the Illuminati and the Freemasons. Alex Jones grew up with John Birch Society conspiracy theories, which are repackaged Nazi conspiracy theories. They are Disinformation Propaganda propagated by Corporate sponsorship (Robert Welch of Welch's Grape Juice fame was one of the key founders) that alleges that the Jewish Communist Bankers are taking over the world.

The John Birch Society was kicked out of the GOP by Conservative Intellectuals such as William F. Buckley decades ago. Mainly as a ruse to present a Moderate face of Conservatism. All pretense has now been dropped, and since the last Presidential Election the John Birch Society has been accepted back into the Mainstream GOP. Similarly, the Tea Party is a pseudo-populist group founded by Billionaires (the Koch brothers) which traffics in the same anti-communist and racist conspiracy theories as the Birch Society. The Tea Party and its proponents like Glenn Beck, are a means to capture a new, younger generation of conservatives and ply them with Pseudo-conspiracies to distract them from very real Overt AND Covert activities

GB

[Pettytyrant101]

Damn you GB! Now I have to go back and add Brazil to my top films list I'd forgotten about it- bloody brilliant!

As to Star Wars and its deeper meanings, seems a bit of a stretch to use it as teaching tool for real world events, but as an introduction to the concepts I suppose fair enough, it does strike me that the reason, as the narrator says, that even some Star Wars nuts missed the deeper meanings is that Lucas is great for a story not but so good on the actual nuts and bolts of a script. Which is a shame, if he had let others do the actual scripting (as in the original three) they might have had the impact he desired bith as entertainment and on the deeper social commentary level.

Late add- watching lunchtime news, quote from cameron "Its because I love the NHS so much that I want to change it." Boy the NHS in England is screwed!

[Eldorion]

One of the interesting things about the Star Wars prequels is that the story was fleshed out during the 1970s and Lucas was heavily influenced by the Vietnam War in the development of the entire saga. You can see shades of this in the original film, for example, with the rebels hiding out on a jungle planet. Some elements developed and changed over time, but the Emperor (formerly Chancellor) of the Galaxy began as a space-fantasy version of Richard Nixon.

[Gandalf's Beard]

Damn you GB! Now I have to go back and add Brazil to my top films list I'd forgotten about it- bloody brilliant!

As to Star Wars and its deeper meanings, seems a bit of a stretch to use it as teaching tool for real world events, but as an introduction to the concepts I suppose fair enough, it does strike me that the reason, as the narrator says, that even some Star Wars nuts missed the deeper meanings is that Lucas is great for a story not but so good on the actual nuts and bolts of a script. Which is a shame, if he had let others do the actual scripting (as in the original three) they might have had the impact he desired bith as entertainment and on the deeper social commentary level.

Late add- watching lunchtime news, quote from cameron "Its because I love the NHS so much that I want to change it." Boy the NHS in England is screwed!

If you watch the prequels again with recent events from the past few decades, with the concept of "Agent Provocateur" in mind, you will be shocked at how closely the films nearly exactly parallel the Historical background that I've been elucidating lately, from the arming, funding, and training of the Mujahideen (now known as "Al Qaeda") in the 70s and 80s by the exact same crew--Bush Sr, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney--who have all been active agents from the Nixon administration up through the Bush Jr administration.

Yes, I totally agree without reservation that Lucas should stick to the story-writing and special effects, and leave the actual script-writing and directing to better directors.

I hope the Goddess strikes Cameron and his Merry Band of Corporate Pirates down. (A guy can dream can't he? )

[Pettytyrant101]

"I hope the Goddess strikes Cameron and his Merry Band of Corporate Pirates down. (A guy can dream can't he?"- GB

20 circles and several sweat tents later and the b*@#!*#'s are still alive- whats a sorceror to do?

[Gandalf's Beard]

"I hope the Goddess strikes Cameron and his Merry Band of Corporate Pirates down. (A guy can dream can't he?"- GB

20 circles and several sweat tents later and the b*@#!*#'s are still alive- whats a sorceror to do?

An excerpt from Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince immediately sprang to mind when I read your response. In the first chapter, the outgoing Minister of Magic (Cornelius Fudge) introduces the new Minister of Magic (Scrimgeour) to the British Muggle Prime Minister (who--as the time frame matches the mid to late 1990s--one can reasonably assume is Tony Blair). They inform Blair that a Wizard War has begun and that this is the reason for bridge collapses, apparent Tornadoes (Giant Involvement is suspected) wreaking destruction, and many mysterious murders which are frustrating Blair, in part because it reflects poorly on his administration and the Tories are making Political Hay out of it. Just as the Ministers of Magic are about to exit, the exasperated Blair blurts out:

"But for heaven's sake--you're Wizards! You can do Magic! Surely you can sort out--well--anything!"
Scrimgeour turned slowly on the spot and exchanged an incredulous look with Fudge, who really did manage a smile this time as he said kindly,"The trouble is, the other side can do Magic too, Prime Minister."

Draw your own conclusions.

But perhaps...just maybe...there's something to it (if you believe in that sort of thing)! If so, it may take more than a lone Sorcerer to go up against the Minions of the Dark Lord, the Cabal that supports the Dick Cheneys and Camerons of this world. Maybe if a whole bunch of us got together and brought the battle to the Dark Forces, we might stand a chance.

GB

[Pettytyrant101]

oooh a proper magic war! The masses in their circles, the Seers filled with natural drugs foretelling the upcoming events and directing the flows and an army of dreamers marshalled and at the ready! If only GB. If only! Every generation that goes by gets further and further from truth!