Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:22 am

Thats both amazing and quite freaky looking.

Heres hoping some awful nasty bug hasnt been hiding frozen under there all this time!

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Post by azriel Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:58 am

That was a tasty start to my day  Smile  I thought it was really interesting, Natural Earth issues are fascinating. I also like reading the quotes underneath  Smile They like to argue dont they  Smile 
They said that, Petty, when they built the Channel Tunnel at Folkestone. As they were digging in, no end of workers were coming down with odd "Bugs". Surely you must be breathing in ancient air & all thats contained in it ?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:46 pm

when they built the Channel Tunnel at Folkestone. As they were digging in, no end of workers were coming down with odd "Bugs". - Azriel


I think thats slang for the French  Very Happy 

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Post by azriel Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:01 pm

We used to say "Dispose of rubbish thoughtfully........post it to France" I guess they had the same idea & gave us their germs  Laughing 

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:06 pm

Very Happy Got to love the whole England/France thing.

Always reminds me of the Yes, Minister scene where Humprhey is explaining why Britain has nukes- not because of the Russians but because France has them, and when Hacker protests "But they are our allies" Humphrey retorts, "They are for now but we've been at war with them for the previous four hundred years so if they have nukes, Britain needs to have nukes."  Very Happy 

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Post by David H Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:14 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Always reminds me of the Yes, Minister scene where Humprhey is explaining why Britain has nukes- not because of the Russians but because France has them, and when Hacker protests "But they are our allies" Humphrey retorts, "They are for now but we've been at war with them for the previous four hundred years so if they have nukes, Britain needs to have nukes."  Very Happy 

And THAT is the reason Israel should never have gotten nukes, for their own interests if nothing else! Nod

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:51 pm

Yup.  Nod 

Its also a good reason why you shouldn't arm all your police. It just encourages the criminals to tool up as well.

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Post by David H Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:45 pm

An interesting news article on that point:

by Ezra Klein wrote:Mother Jones' Kevin Drum puts it simply:

We've spent the past two decades militarizing our police forces to respond to problems that never materialized.

The two problems were the drug-fueled crime wave of the '70s and '80s and the post-9/11 fear that local police forces would soon be overwhelmed with local terrorist plots. In America, big problems require big guns, and so one response to these fears was the so-called "1033 program", where the Department of Defense distributed surplus military equipment to local police forces. As Amanda Taub explains:

The 1033 program's roots lie in the drug war — hence the counter-narcotics impetus. It was originally created in 1990, as part of the National Defense Authorization Act, which authorized the Pentagon to transfer military equipment to local law enforcement if it was "suitable for use in counter-drug activities." In the wake of the September 11th attacks, the program's focus has expanded to include counter-terrorism activities as well.

While the 1033 program's intent may have been to equip specialized units for extreme, dangerous situations, fighting al-Qaeda sleeper cells or powerful drug cartels, the effect has been to incorporate SWAT-style raids into ordinary police operations. That includes, but is certainly not limited to, the serving of search warrants. This may partly be because the program requires that all equipment issued through the 1033 program be used within one year of the date it is granted. That means that if police departments want to keep their new gear, they can't wait for a rare emergency like an active shooter or hostage situation in order to use it.

Read those last few sentences carefully. Police get all this equipment and, as a condition of the program, need to use it within a year. What they don't get is training. The ACLU's Kara Dansky, who authored an important report on police militarization, told Vox she was "not aware of any training that the government provides in terms of use of the equipment," or of "any oversight in terms of safeguards regarding the use of the equipment by the Defense Department."

So police have all this military equipment, very little training on how to use it, and a requirement that they deploy it within a year. But the problems they were supposed to use the equipment against have either eased or vanished.

The crime wave that ripped through the country in the '70s and '80s broke in the '90s and continued to fall through the Aughts. There were 23,000 murders in 1980. There were 14,827 in 2012. (Note that America's population grew by more than 80 million people during that time.) Meanwhile, al Qaeda never became a major problem for local law enforcement.

The result is that the equipment gets used — and used badly — to put down mostly peaceful protests in places like Ferguson, or to raid organic farms. And it can mean that communities come to view their militarized police forces as a threat:

It became so clear the awfulness of the situation. Communities need police. But here & now, the slightest police presence enrages people.

"Police militarization was a mistake," concludes Drum. "You can argue that perhaps we didn't know that at the time. No one knew in 1990 that crime was about to begin a dramatic long-term decline, and no one knew in 2001 that domestic terrorism would never become a serious threat. But we know now. There's no longer even a thin excuse for arming our police forces this way."

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:31 am

The requirement that the weapons needed to be used within a year is a total head scratcher. I'd love to see justification for this, as offhand I can't think of anything other than the typical doctrine that allocated funds have to be used each year or else they'll be reduced the next. Funds ain't guns.

As for Petty's claim that arming the police leads to criminals arming themselves, I don't think that argument holds up. Looks at America's gang wars in the 20's and 30's kicked off by prohibition. The criminals were mainly arming against each other: the police were more likely caught in crossfire rather than being a cause.

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Post by Eldorion Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:24 am

I was reading a thread about the War of 1812 on another forum and a couple of British people commented that they'd either never heard of the conflict or had only learned of it well after leaving school. Is this common in the UK?  As shitty as American history classes often are, they usually make mention of the War of 1812 if only to explain the national anthem.  But it's a fairly dull and stupid war, so I can imagine why Britain wouldn't want to bring it up. Especially since they'd presumably be in the middle of a Napoleon section, and no one even knew what the War of 1812 was about when it happened, much less 200 years later.
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Post by David H Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:07 am

You should talk to Canadians about it. They study it too, but the funny thing is both our countries teach that we each won! History is funny that way! Laughing

We both seriously underestimated each other. The USA was determined to capture all of Canada, while Britain was determined to control the Great Lakes. Obviously neither of us did well according to stated objectives, but the battles were often so bloody (like 80% mortality type bloody) that both GB and USA learned a new respect for each other. We've never fought since.

{{Now for bragging rights: The only time in the history of the Royal Navy that an entire British Naval squadron surrendered to another nation en mass was during the Battle of Lake Erie when Commander Barclay surrendered his command to Oliver Hazard Perry. Woohoo! cheers }}

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:47 am

Commodore Perry was totally kick-ass. He pops up over and over.

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:53 am

Oh, there were two Commodore Perrys! Brothers. No wonder he seems to be all over the place.

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Post by azriel Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:26 am

I wasnt taught anything about the 1812 war in school scratch All I know of is the 1812 overture by Tchaikovsky Smile which I particularly liked when the canon fire kicked in. Its played on a wednesday night along the seafont at a bandstand with an exuberant firework ending, all for £7.50 a ticket Very Happy

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:52 pm

It was important for Americans because the Brits burned the White House....those jokers. We also got our national anthem out of it when they shellacked Baltimore. Good times. But as evidenced by the 1812 overture there were other things going on at the same time, and the US-Brit tiff was just a minor issue in comparison to Napoleon romping about.

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:40 pm

yeah while you lot were farting about on lakes..... Rolling Eyes....
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:30 pm

Well you can only take so much interest in the activities of the colonies when you have so many of them. Shrugging

Besides Brits got confused by the whole thing over tea. How can a war start with tea? That is a British oxymoron, it just cant happen.

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Post by David H Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:52 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:yeah while you lot were farting about on lakes..... Rolling Eyes....

Not to brag, but we did some farting about on the ocean too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution_vs_HMS_Guerriere

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Not your fault you've never heard about the War of 1812 though.  I bet the Spaniards don't know much about that little Armada incident either, except maybe that it was lost in a storm. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Ringdrotten Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:05 pm

Ships used to be so epic Sad

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:10 pm

ok its official, we have the apocalypse. In Madagascar theres a plague of locusts the size of....wait for it.....

JAPAN...yes Japan. No

holy shit!

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Post by azriel Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:30 pm

Is this helped the demise of the Dinosaurs ? a plague of bloody locusts ? Never know, if they are such voracious eaters ? Tho I guess locust do not go that far back in history. Very Happy Id hate to watch out my window & see those dam things !

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:34 pm

it makes me shudder to see one pale
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Post by azriel Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:38 pm

You get used to it, I lived with someone who looked just like a locust, just as skinny, just as revolting ! Laughing Flapped around & got on my nerves also. Didnt find anything to eradicate him unfortunately Laughing

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Post by bungobaggins Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:21 pm


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Post by azriel Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:53 pm

Ooo-hoooo ! that was an amazing feeling ! I actually felt the punch watching that.

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