Re: We're all doomed! Doomed I say- the Corona virus thread for panicking in!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ So now Trump tells Fox News he is 'all for masks' after putting off most of his own supporters from wearing one and turning a heath issue into a political one.
One wonders how his most hard core followers, the ones who've been out maskless with banners declaring the mask an attack on their fundemental freedoms and Orwellian government reach, will be able to switch mental gears to start suporting and wearing one. You'd think you'd feel a bit of a tit. And surely a little betrayed by the man who told you not to wear one now telling you they are great.

On top of that things seem to be getting worse in the US instead of better, with increases all over the place-

'Throughout June, the infection rate rose by 105 percent, according to the Times and weekly averages for new infections have increased in 45 states over the last week, according to The Post.'

Meanwhile in the land of reality Dr Fauci has warned infections could top 100,00 per day if nothing is done to curb it, and despite claims from Republicans its all young folk gettin git and thats ok, hospital admissions are now also starting to rise.
And further research is showing that there may well be bad long term effects to the virus, affecting the brain and various organs. Being young is no guarantee you wont have issues later.

And back in America's alternative reality, in Texas, where they eagerly opened up their economy first and down played the threat from the virus at every turn, the Governor has put fingers in his ears, stuck his head in the sand and is currently shouting "Nah, nah, cant hear you!" he more publicly announced-

“Fauci doesn’t know what he’s talking about. We haven’t skipped over anything. The only thing I’m skipping over is listening to him. He has been wrong every time on every issue, I don’t need his advice anymore.”- Gov Patrick

And in reality in Texas-

'Texas saw a record 8,076 new coronavirus cases Wednesday following the comments by Patrick. Hospitalizations have also skyrocketed in recent weeks. More than 6,900 people are currently hospitalized in the state, compared to just over 2,000 on June 11.'

And why would you take the advice of a life long highly respected scientist, specialising in transmittable diseases, who has advised several US governments republican and democratic, when you can trust instead a long term politician making decsions based solely on political considerations? Obvious really.
Welcome to America, where its 2020, the pick your own reality year }}

[halfwise]

New York has declared that travelers from Texas must quarantine for 14 days.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ So things are getting a bit fiesty between the Westminister govt and the devolved parliaments.
It started earlier in the week when Sturgeon was asked now England are opening up a lot, and Scotland a bit more, if it would be necessary to quarantine visitors from England, given the infection rate in England is still 5 times what it is in Scotland.

Sturgeon replied that there were currently no plans to quarantine travellers from England, but that it would be driven by the science. If there were increases in cases linked to tourists then it might have to be considered.

'She said if advisors told her that a quarantine rule would be "a necessary measure to protect people" then she would be "failing in my duty not to consider it".'

Also worth noting the suggestion that it might be necessary if cases grow again came not from the SNP, the First Minister, or the government in Scotland at all, but from the independent health specialists advising the government.

Boris however immedialty tried to make it political and claimed the idea was '"astonishing and shameful" and tried to claim it was some sort of SNP plot to divide the UK.
He also more ludicrously claimed there was no border between England and Scotland.

"There have been no such discussions with the Scottish administration about that, but I would point out that there is no such thing as a border between England and Scotland."- Boris

And the Westminister Minister for Scotland said-

'This talk of quarantining people from other parts of the UK is disappointing, it's divisive. It's not the language we should be hearing from our first minister because it undermines the joint efforts that we've had in tackling Covid-19, and it's bad for business - especially the tourism business."

In reponse Sturgeon quite rightly retorted with -

'she did not want to have to deal with "absurd and ridiculous political statements" while dealing with a highly infectious and potentially deadly virus.
She said it was "shameful and unacceptable" for anyone in government to politicise a public health issue, saying: "It's about how a virus spreads, not about politics or the constitution".
"I very much look forward to the day where I can have straightforward political and constitutional debate with my opposite numbers, and I will relish that as someone with very strong beliefs," she added. But right now I have a duty I take really seriously, to protect Scotland from this virus.
I have no plans right now to have any consideration around quarantine for people coming to Scotland. If that changes and the advice I'm getting is that it would be a necessary measure to protect people, then I would be failing in my duty not to consider it.
This is public health, and the fact in Scotland we are trying to turn it into a kind of standard political or constitutional row is frankly disgraceful."

And tweeted, again correctly-

'Public health, not politics, must drive decisions on COVID. I’m sure the Governor of New York  isn’t being political in imposing quarantine on people from higher transmission US states - he’s acting to protect the people he serves from a deadly virus.'

And on Boris's ludicrous there are no borders comment she added-

"If the prime minister is questioning that now I'm not sure what he'd say if I pitched up in Newcastle and tried to implement Scottish government policies there."

So things got off to a tense start with Westminister tryi gto turn it into a political issue instead of a health one.
Then Westminister announced their 'air corridors' countries where folk can go to and come from without quarantine.
Problem is they came up with a list then presented it to the devoloved adminisstrations, and expected them to rubber stamp it, the same day. Thats their idea of four nation consultation.
When the devolved parliaments said, no thanks we need to consider the proposals and maybe discuss them first, Westminister threw a hissy fit, then two days later presented a new list, again with no consultation, featuring different countries and likewise expected it rubber stamped.

All three devolved Parliaments are obviously not too happy about this attitude to their Parliamnets and rights.
Sturgeon called it shambolic, as too indepndently of Sturgeon did the Welsh First Minister.

'At her daily coronavirus briefing, Ms Sturgeon said the Scottish government had to make "difficult and complex" decisions on the issue - but the UK government's position kept changing.
The list of countries that Westminster asked Scotland to sign up to on Thursday was different to that announced on Friday, she added.
"When so much is at stake as it is right now we can't allow ourselves to be dragged along in the wake of, to be quite frank about it, another government's shambolic decision process," she said.
"We want to welcome visitors again from around the world and we also want to allow our own citizens to travel.
Scottish Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf said he had been given 30 minutes to look at a list of countries under consideration for "air bridges" before being asked to make a decision on Wednesday night.'

And the Welsh parliament is no less impressed-

'Dealing with the UK government on plans to lift quarantine measures for travellers from abroad has been "utterly shambolic", Wales' first minister has said.
He said it had been "impossible" to get a "sensible answer" on how UK ministers intended to make the changes.
"Dealing with the UK government, over the last few days, has been an utterly shambolic experience."
"If ever there was an example of making an announcement first and then trying to work out what you meant by it, that is what we have seen since," the first minister said.
"Day after day we have attempted to get a sensible answer from the UK government of how they intend to make these changes - which countries they intend to extend the new arrangements to, and I just have to say it's been an impossible experience to follow."- BBc

So yeah, well done Boris, youve shown how incompetent you are, how shambolic the decsion making process at Westminister is, and shown utter contempt and disrepsect to the other UK parliaments.
Better Together? Fuck off.

As usual Jane Godley summed up what Nicola was probably really thinking about it all - }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I see things are sadly getting worse in Texas.

Houston emergency room physician Dr. Bill Fisher told "The Daily Briefing" Friday that "ICU beds are just about at capacity" in the city as Texas faces a spike in coronavirus cases.

(So much for it just being young folk who wont need ICU!)

"I think there is still a few left and we’re going to be completely full by the end of the day,” Fisher told his daughter, Fox News correspondent Kristin Fisher.
Dr. Fisher said the increase in cases didn't begin until restaurants started to open up and the state appeared to be returning to normal.
On Thursday, Texas officials announced they had recorded 7,382 coronavirus hospitalizations -- a new high -- as well as 7,915 new coronavirus cases, down from Wednesday's record high of 8,076 new cases.
Meanwhile, Gov. Greg Abbott on mandated the wearing of face coverings in all counties with 20 or more positive COVID-19 cases. The governor also banned gatherings of more than 10 people ahead of the July 4th weekend, with certain exceptions.


Pity that same Governor was so keen to open up as early as possible, downplayed the threat, and had a President leading his party who has effectively run an anti-mask wearing propoganda school since the start.
I see just yesterday Trump said he believed the virus would just disappear.
Yeah thats how this works. Forget science, President Trump is relying on wishful thinking and magic to help America- good luck with that.}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Found this very interesting- }}

'Dr Tom Jefferson, senior associate tutor at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), at Oxford, and visiting professor at Newcastle University, argues that there is growing evidence that the virus was elsewhere before it emerged in Asia.
Spanish virologists announced they had found traces of the disease in samples of waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the coronavirus disease was seen in China.
Italian scientists have also found evidence of coronavirus in sewage samples in Milan and Turin, in mid-December, many weeks before the first case was detected, while experts have found traces in Brazil in November.
Dr Jefferson believes that many viruses lie dormant throughout the globe and emerge when conditions are favourable.
"I think the virus was already here, here meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions...The explanation for this could only be that these agents don’t come or go anywhere. They are always here and something ignites them, maybe human density or environmental conditions, and this is what we should be looking for."
Writing in The Telegraph, Dr Jefferson and Professor Carl Henegehan, Director of the CEBM, call for an in-depth investigation.
"There is quite a lot of evidence that huge amounts of the virus in sewage all over the place, and an increasing amount of evidence there is faecal transmission. There is a high concentration where sewage is four degrees, which is the ideal temperature for it to be stabled and presumably activated. And meatpacking plants are often at four degrees. These meat packing clusters and isolated outbreaks don’t fit with respiratory theory, they fit with people who haven’t washed their hands properly."

[halfwise]

That would be good news if it bears out. Handwashing is much easier to address than respiratory transmission.

[azriel]

If it only were a case of better sanitation, if washing yer paws was good enough, chucking bleach down the loo etc. Trouble is, some people don't even have a loo & certainly not the pristine porcelain we enjoy....or loo roll I guess ? maybe ? I dunno ? nice bar of chunky soap ? then youde need clean water & clean towels...Mmmm I cant see Afghanistan having a Bosch washing machine & Ariel pods to hand ?

[Mrs Figg]

I can imagine those wet markets in Wuhan were the worst hygiene ever, lots of people having a dump then not washing their hands and lots of scared animals having a dump, then being murdered, all mixed up in one toxic soup.

[azriel]

That sounds like Life at its very worst doesn't it. Ive heard from several people that in Pakistan, India, people just wee & poo in the street & that's it

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ If youve ever wondered why the UK government refuses to give a breakdown of covid cases in the UK by nation, heres why- }}

[Mrs Figg]

This is why they have stopped the daily briefings, they want to sweep it under the carpet, they want us to forget 70,000 dead people.

On a more positive note, I spoke to a doctor last night and she said we should be getting a vaccine in February. She knows what she is talking about having worked in the field. We have to hang tough for another 6 months. If the UK/Norway/US doesn't get one in February I will try to buy it for you all and post it out to you individually.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ well heres a turn up for the books, and maybe a glimme ro fhope that long term some good may comeof this horrible mess, a letter published in the Guardian-

‘Millionaires for Humanity’
Sign On Letter

To Our Fellow Global Citizens:

As Covid-19 strikes the world, millionaires like us have a critical role to play in healing our world. No, we are not the ones caring for the sick in intensive care wards. We are not driving the ambulances that will bring the ill to hospitals. We are not restocking grocery store shelves or delivering food door to door. But we do have money, lots of it. Money that is desperately needed now and will continue to be needed in the years ahead, as our world recovers from this crisis.

Today, we, the undersigned millionaires, ask our governments to raise taxes on people like us. Immediately. Substantially. Permanently.

The impact of this crisis will last for decades. It could push half a billion more people into poverty. Hundreds of millions of people will lose their jobs as businesses close, some permanently. Already, there are nearly a billion children out of school, many with no access to the resources they need to continue their learning. And of course the absence of hospital beds, protective masks, and ventilators is a painful, daily reminder of the inadequate investment made in public health systems across the world.

The problems caused by, and revealed by, Covid-19 can’t be solved with charity, no matter how generous. Government leaders must take the responsibility for raising the funds we need and spending them fairly. We can ensure we adequately fund our health systems, schools, and security through a permanent tax increase on the wealthiest people on the planet, people like us.

We owe a huge debt to the people working on the frontlines of this global battle. Most essential workers are grossly underpaid for the burden they carry. At the vanguard of this fight are our health care workers, 70 percent of whom are women. They confront the deadly virus each day at work, while bearing the majority of responsibility for unpaid work at home. The risks these brave people willingly embrace every day in order to care for the rest of us requires us to establish a new, real commitment to each other and to what really matters.

Our interconnectedness has never been more clear. We must rebalance our world before it is too late. There will not be another chance to get this right.

Unlike tens of millions of people around the world, we do not have to worry about losing our jobs, our homes, or our ability to support our families. We are not fighting on the frontlines of this emergency and we are much less likely to be its victims.

So please. Tax us. Tax us. Tax us. It is the right choice. It is the only choice.

Humanity is more important than our money.

The Signers



Among those to have signed off on this letter so far are Ben and Jerry’s ice cream co-founder Jerry Greenfield and Disney heir Abigail Disney, Sir Stephen Tindall, the founder of the Warehouse Group and New Zealand’s second richest man with a $475m (£370m) fortune; the British screenwriter and director Richard Curtis; and the Irish venture capitalist John O’Farrell, who made millions investing in Silicon Valley tech companies. }}

[Lancebloke]

{{ If youve ever wondered why the UK government refuses to give a breakdown of covid cases in the UK by nation, heres why- }}

The numbers are publicly available though....

Also, England has a much larger population and more areas with high population density. I am not sure why those numbers are unexpected or in any way surprising...?

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Per capita Scotland and England started off on almost exactly the same bad footing and faced with same issues, too late going into lockdown, lot of care home deaths and lack of PPE. Its been got under control more quickly here because Sturgeon has been absolutey resolute and on point with messaging and taking measures. She refused to bow to the pathetic attempts to get Scotland to reopen at same speed as England, she stuck with the simple and effective messaging of 'stay home, save our NHS' when Boris kept changing the messaging in England, she maintained the 2 metre rule while Boris was vague talking about 1 and a bit metres, she mandated face masks in public places and led by example wearing one herself throughout, she continued to give daily updates and breifings and to take questions from the press  after Boris abandoned doing so. The differnce has been in leadership, which is clearly reflected in the polling-

'A poll last month found most people in every nation and region of the UK thought Scotland had handled the pandemic better than England'- The Herald

'A survey out today suggested most people in Scotland thought UK ministers had handled the Covid-19 emergency "fairly" or "very" badly.
But a whopping 82% of respondents agreed Nicola Sturgeon had handled the crisis well overall - with only 8% saying she had done badly. "Our poll shows the Scottish public are really nervous about moving out of lockdown, and the Scottish Government, in taking a more cautious approach, has perhaps been more in tune with the public mood," she said. "Four in five of us are saying that - it's not just SNP supporters."

This particualr result I think shows the confidence people here have Sturgeon and how her government is proceeding in very difficult times-

'And 81% said they supported plans to ease Scotland's lockdown slower to England and other parts of the UK if the SNP government believe it is necessary.'

This reflects a level of trust in government decisions not seen in England, and anicdotally I can add that in my area people have in the majority stuck to the rule sof social distancing, mask wearng with little to no fuss.

'82% think Nicola Sturgeon has handled the crisis well, while 30% say the same of Boris Johnson. Over half of Scots say that Boris Johnson and the UK Government have handled the crisis badly (55% and 51% respectively). These sentiments are reflected in Scots’ views of government communications during the crisis. An overwhelming majority (86%) feel the Scottish Government’s messaging has been clear around what to do in response to the coronavirus, with just 8% saying it has been unclear. However, the Scottish public are much more critical of the UK." Ipso mori

And this has been reflected in polls showing those favouring independence has been consistently above 50% for the last 4 major polls, at 52%, 53% (twice) and now 54%.

Sturgeon herself said something very interesting in her interview at the weekend with Andrew Marr when reflecting on the increase in support for independence, and something which was more a message for the more zealous 'push for a referendum at all costs' section of her party-

'At a time when I and the SNP have not been talking about independence all the time, but getting on with the job of autonomous decision making and trying to take the right decisions to get the country through a crisis, support for independence seems to have increased. So maybe there is a bt of a lesson in there, about show not tell.' }}

[Mrs Figg]

yep, Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, Merkel and Tsai Ing-wen, Marin, Katrín Jakobsdóttir, have all had good covid battles with low death rates, there is a pattern forming here, they are all women and not alt-right populists.

[halfwise]

Well, crap.

https://www.businessinsider.com/antibody-expert-you-can-get-coronaviruses-again-we-need-vaccine-2020-7

[Mrs Figg]

yep it could be like the cold and you could get it a couple of times a year, and only have coverage for a few months, so it is best to avoid it at all costs until there's a vaccine. I wouldn't mind having booster shots, I don't care how many times I would need to take it.

[halfwise]

Going in to get shot is a ruddy annoyance. Too bad oral vaccines don't seem to be a thing.

[Mrs Figg]

They will probably develop nasal sprays. I think they probably already have.

[Lancebloke]

Figgy - I think you are expecting more of this vaccine thing than we may ever see. A safe and effective vaccine usually takes years and that is not because science is slow, it is because it takes a long time to understand if they are effective, how long for and then whether long term side effects are caused.

I am really not sure i would want to be taking anything that is developed in under a year!

[halfwise]

I'd do a nasal spray if developed with killed vaccines. That I'd think they could send home with people.

[Mrs Figg]

Figgy - I think you are expecting more of this vaccine thing than we may ever see. A safe and effective vaccine usually takes years and that is not because science is slow, it is because it takes a long time to understand if they are effective, how long for and then whether long term side effects are caused.

I am really not sure i would want to be taking anything that is developed in under a year!

I am going off what a doctor in the field told me, she said they should have a vaccine ready for February. It is true it normally takes years, but we don't have years, so they are speeding things up.

[azriel]

As much as I would love a speeded up vaccine right now Im also concerned about side effects & if they could be damaging. Ive only got the one brain & even that one isnt perfect. There have been clinical trials that have gone horribly wrong. I remember just a few years ago it was in the news about some men being on deaths door & fighting for their lives. Feels like we are stuck between a rock & a hard place

[Lancebloke]

Figgy - I hope you are right... I dont know how they would go about convincing people of its safety though. We have enough anti-vaxxers as it is without something like this being rushed and ending up with a generation of infertile kids or something.

[Mrs Figg]

The thing is about coronavirus, ie colds and flu,  is we have had a vaccine for the flu for decades and they are proven safe, any new vaccine will be based on inactivated virus, and/or experimental vaccines as for ebola/sars, but they have already tested these vaccines on certain populations, I really doubt a new vaccine would be so radical that it was deadly. they will use the stuff and research already in the bank. As for anti-vaxxers, stuff em! they are little more than flat-earthers. Without vaccines we would all be still dying from smallpox, TB and polio. Anti-vaxxing is ludicrous and dangerous.