All New Who

I'm not in a position to weigh in on this, but I got the impression Chibnal picked Jodie simply because he's worked with her before.  There was no search for the best candidate for female doctor.  She'd obviously do better with better writing, but if she was right for the part, she would have made it her own regardless.

Amarië wrote:Haven't seen timless in ages, so I don't think I remember him... , I'd like to see a female Doctor done right before it's over. And it would be interesting to see if Jodie  could be a proper Doctor, or if Chibnal is holding her back.

Not that I'd mind a "oooops, it was aaaall a dream!" This will be a difficult season to watch... Again...

Paterson was the Black dude in charge of the missions with the English accent. Its not sure if he is a 'baddie' or a 'goodie' until the end.

I am bored with having a female Doctor, Whittaker has put me off.

Hmmmm, some small bells are ringing now.

halfwise wrote:(...) if she was right for the part, she would have made it her own regardless.

True. Very true. But it's not just the actor, is the people and environment around them. You can polish a turd (Mythbuster proved it), but you do need a turd with a bit of substance.

I'd like to see a female Doctor done right before it's over.- Amarie

{{I feel the same. The worst thng to come out of all this is the impression it failed because the Doctor was a woman. Thats the easy excuse for it. But its not that, it is the writing and the performance and the choice of actress. All of which have been exceptionally poor.
And I think if the BBC go back to young handsome Tennant/Smith style Doctors it will look like an admission of defeat on the idea of a female Doctor.

It can be done right. Even with the limited personality and what Jodie has brought to the role (not enough in my view but not nothing either) her Doctor can work as the Doctor if well written, Moffat proved this in his short story featuring 13.

What we need is I feel an older female actor, someone with a lot of theatre experience who is used to commanding the stage. Someone who can convey the gravitas of the character, the weight of years on them and the childish delight at life and who you cant take your eyes off when on screen. And she needs to be given some proper meat to get her acting chops into. She needs a defined character arc and proper stakes and jeopardy. She needs Doctor style problems to deal with and resolve, her gender being an irrelevance to doing so rather than made the point. And meaningful interactions with other characters. And the actor needs to be allowed to bring a lot of their own personality to the role, as previous actors since the 1st have done in shaping their Doctor.
They just do that and a female Doctor would work just fine, no reason why not.

But if they again cast for and write for political and social agendas and double down (and some are taking the profusion of rainbows in the teaser trailer to be an indication of a 13/Yaz relationship being part of the next series and a doubling down) the show will contiue to stumble and lose viewers. }}

Yep, I've always said Helen Mirren would have been perfect. And she wouldn't have put up with crappy scripts, she's send them back.

They could do worse with Suranne Jones, at least she is the TARDIS. She isn't likely to bounce around like a kids entertainer from Butlins, or how about Villanelle? very dark.

Are you talking about Villanelle from Killing Eve?

yes

Too young. Though she's very good, I doubt she's established enough to lock horns with a well established knucklehead like Chibnal and win.

I'm guessing the 14th Doctor will be a woman again, though I'm actually more interested in who the new showrunner/producers etc will be (seems a tad unfair to expect them to take over in 2022, when the 60th anniversary of the show is in 2023!), various rumours/reports over the years have suggested Chibnall was considered by the BBC the only real choice to take over from Moffat as early as 2015, his commitments to Broadchurch delaying it-it also seems he only ever wanted to do 3 seasons then leave.

Several of the other regular writers for the show (Mark Gatiss, Peter Harness, Toby Whithouse) have all been suggested for the showrunner role but none seem particular keen (and all are currently busy with other projects) , it seems the BBC will have to look for a brand new writer-producer team who perhaps haven't worked on the show before.

There's currently a rumour going round that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Wainwright

has been approached to take over.

Mrs Figg wrote:agree about our points Petty, and I hope they don't rush finding the new Doctor and go down the Chibbers route because the wrong Doctor now could spell its end. I am afraid of their box ticking. I want them to go back to the Doctor looking like straight white middle aged bloke/alien, which in these times sounds controversial, that's how far down the rabbit hole we have gone. I want them to choose well and get back to sci-fi adventures. On the other hand I wouldn't mind Paterson Joseph being the Doctor, he was a great Marquis de Carabas and he was in Timeless as well, which is a timey-wimey TV show.

According to Neil Gaiman at least one black actor has turned down the role, and it's been rumoured for years that Chiwetel Ejifor was said actor:

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/was-chiwetel-ejiofor-the-black-actor-offered-the-role-of-the-11th-doctor-ahead-of-matt-smith/

He would have been a fantastic Doctor (though the BBC couldn't afford him these days I guess)

I also rember reading a supposed leak that Paterson Joseph did actually audition for the 11th Doctor and came very close to getting the part (down to the final three supposedly), he would have also been a great choice but I'm guessing the BBC will be pushing for a younger actor/actress this time and I'm not so sure he'd want to audition for the role again having come so close but missed out before...

I think it's likely to be an ethnic minority actor this time around, though with Chibnall no longer on writing duties I feel less concerned about box ticking scripts/casting decsisons being made...

My first choice for a woman doctor was (and remains) Olivia Colman but I doubt she'd do it.

{{ The Villanelle actress you mentioned, though I dont know her from anything myself, is 28, two years older than Matt Smith when he became the youngest actor to play the role. So her age is not a hinderance if she can pull off acting the age of the character as Smith did.



I agree Malick its likely to be someone of ethenticity, though that does risk giving the impresison the BBC are just checking off boxes, and technically we already have the first ethnic Doctor in Jo Martins Doctor (which it turns out was not even in the original script, Chibnal added her at the last minute on a whim with no real idea of how she fitted in!). But I do think they will stick with a female Doctor if for no other reason than to go back to male leads would publicly admit defeat or that they were wrong with 13. }}

Oh, she's got mad acting chops.  She's celebrated for her chameleon abilities playing an international assassin: switching from Russian officer to French fashionista to etc etc effortlessly.  And she brings LIFE to these characters.



I'm rethinking my rejection of her as too young.  I think Figgy's right, she could be the one.  My reservations weren't from her acting, but in person she portrays none of the toughness of her characters, just coming across as a sweet (but talented) young thing.  She'll need to be tough enough to reject the BS that may come to her.

She may be sweet in person but she plays a ruthless psychokiller with ease. She has that ability, like Joe Gilgun, to switch from friendly and goofy to menacing and sinister in a nanosecond. She has the ability to slide seamlessly into a different accent which is amazing to listen to. I still want Joe to play the Doctor and I am glad that Paterson auditioned, I wish he had got the part. he can also do ambiguity with ease. In 'Timeless' you never know whose side he is on or if he is up to no good, that's good acting.

{{ In terms of importance going forward Id say priority question be answered is who will the new showrunner be? Thats the most important as it sets the entire direction of the show. Then who the Doctor will be, as that reflects the direction they wish to go down, and lastly who is writing the 60th special? Is Chibnal getting it before he goes or is he leaving it to whoever comes in? As whilst I'd hate Chibbers to get it and ruin that too on his way out the door its a hell of a thing to be landed with as your first program of your new era with a new Doctor the audience doesnt yet know for any incoming showrunner.

One name recently thrown into the ring, given as a insider tip-off to the Council of Geeks youtube channel, is Sally Wainwright. She has a extensive list of writing work, she started out on long running radio 4 farming soap The Archers then moved to Coronation Street, before her Mentor Kay Mellor (writer and director) encouraged her to turn her hand to her own original material. The result was shows like At Home with the Braithwaithes, The Cantebury Tales The Wife of Bath, Jane Hall, Unforgiven, Scott and Bailey, Last Tango in Halifax and Gentleman Jack (currently still running). She is noted for her strong female leads, but and here is the important bit, all her females are in some fashion flawed. And this is crucial when writing for the Doctor, yes they are the hero of the tale but they are also a deeply flawed and troubled hero. To quote the 12th Doctor "Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones. But you still have to choose."
And the Doctor has had to choose a lot of tough and bad choices in their life. What keeps the mysterious who? aspect of the shows title and of the character alive is the sense that the Doctor is just one more personal tradegy away from becoming selfish, brooding, vengeful and with their abilities, knowledge and levels of technology the darkest most dangerous beings in the universe- and you get the sense maybe that the Doctor is that naturally but is trying very hard not to be. That conflict and uncertainty about the truth of the Doctors character is core to the modern character.
One of the major issues with Jodie's Doctor is she has no flaws the show acknowledges, the other characters dont acknowledge or the plots, and the Doctor herself doesnt ackowledge them or show awareness of her own short-comings. And as a result her Doctor is flat and lacking substance and weight.
So if this particular rumour proves true I'd be very willing for Sally Wainwright to get the gig- she has show running experience, she is a proven television writer with many multiple award winning shows to her credit, and if the BBC is going to stick with a female Doctor then she seems the perfect fit for writing one. I found her quote about writing a TV series very encouraging, describing it as - "a great education in discipline and a lesson that great stories are hard work".
It is and Who is one of the toughest writing gigs on TV. But on her last three shows she was the creator, writer, producer and director so she sounds like she is more than capable of dealing with that.

Her impresive awards list from wiki-

2003: Best Short Drama Banff Festival for The Wife of Bath's Tale
2009: RTS Awards, Best Drama Serial for Unforgiven
2011: RTS North West Awards, Best Writer for Scott & Bailey
2013: Sky WFTV Awards, Technicolor Writing Award
2013: BAFTA TV Craft Awards, Best Drama Writer
2013: BAFTA TV Craft Awards, Best Drama Series for Last Tango in Halifax
2014: Broadcast Awards, Best Drama Series for Happy Valley
2014: British Screenwriters’ Awards, Best British TV Drama Writing for Happy Valley
2014: Crime Thriller Awards, Best TV Series for Happy Valley
2014: TV Choice Awards, Best New Drama for Happy Valley
2015: Broadcasting Press Guild Awards, Best Drama Writer
2015: BAFTA TV Craft Awards, Best Drama Writer
2015: Edgar Allan Poe Awards, Best Television Episode for Happy Valley (episode 1)
2015: WGGB Awards, Best Long Form TV Drama for Happy Valley
2015: Edinburgh TV Awards, Best Programme of the year for Happy Valley
2015: BAFTA Awards, Best Drama Series for Happy Valley
2017: RTS Programme Awards, Best Drama Writer for Happy Valley
2017: RTS Programme Awards, Judges' Award
2017:BAFTA Awards, Best Drama Series for Happy Valley[29]
2017: BAFTA TV Craft Awards, Best Drama Writer for 'Happy Valley'
2020: Royal Television Society Awards, Best Drama Series Winner for 'Gentleman Jack'[30]
2020: Freedom of The Borough of Calderdale [31]
2020: Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) in the 2020 Birthday Honours for services to Writing and Television.

If the BBC can secure someone of her stature and talents then there is hope yet.}}

{{ That last post made me ponder on the Doctor's flaws and the drama that ensues from them- these are a couple of vids from the excellent Margarita Life, it was made before Jodie began so doesn't include any scenes of her. But what occured to me watching is is that even made today it still couldnt include 13. Why? Because she has no such moments from her era to include, not only does she have no such flaws to explore or exploit for drama, she is never this emotionally invested in anything or anyone around her to get this worked up about anything. }}

well Scott and Bailey got pretty dark, complicated nuanced characters with spiky bits. sounds good. I still prefer a bloke Doctor though. As for dark themes In this I thought RTD and Moffat got the balance right between appealing to kids and adults too. My favourite of all is Bad Wolf, it was mysterious and haunting.

The show is a bad joke.

Casting a woman or non-white actor so they don't have to admit defeat? Sorry, thought this was a television show for entertainment, not a crusade. But that ship has sailed.

Trying to imagine if they had cast a good actress instead of gooney-mooney... Well, that would have been nice. I don't have any expectations for the future. Once you willfully throw yourself head-first into a reeking bog of ineptitude, you're going to stink even if you crawl out again.

What an image!

{{ Well we have news on writers and directors for the new series.
As its only six episodes long this series I thought Id start with writers as there are only three.

We have Chibnal, god help us there.
We have Ed Hines, who for some reason certain people seem to rate and have even thrown his name about as potential showrunner, why is beyond me. He  has written two previous epiosdes for Thriteen, It Takes You Away which I thought was a disjointed mess with underdeveloped characters and an entire section of plot not connected to anything else. And, um, Orphan 55 which was rank god awful and a strong contender for worst epiosde of Doctor Who ever, as its not only appallingly written but appallingly directed and edited to boot. So far he is only down for writing oneof the six episodes.
And Maxine Alderton who normaly writes for soap Emmerdale, her one previous Who episode was The Haunting of Villa Diodati. Granted one of the better episodes of Jodie's run but thats set to a very low bar, in a normal pre-Jodie series it would have been an ok middle of the road filler episode quickly forgotten, sadly in this era its more of a highlight. She is listed as a 'core wirter' presumanbly meaning she and Chibnal wll pen the bulk of the episodes (its unclear if that is just the six episodes of the series or if it also includes the two specials that will see out Chibbers and Jodies run next year).
So nothing much to inspire hope on the writing front that anything will have improved.

And so directors, we have top of the pile Jamie Stone returning. I say top of the pile but in comparison to the calibre of previous Who directors before Chibnal he hardly ranks. Some tv episodes from short-lived shows youve probably never heard of, a made for tv film, a video game and the rest is the episodes of 13 he directed in her first two series. Nothing stands out as being above and beyond or even notable in episodes they have directed, competent would be fair as there are no obvious stinkers either in direction at least, although he did direct the Timeless Child finale which is one of the flatest, dullest most boring filmed pieces of Tv I've ever seen so there is that (but the exposition heavy script takes a lot of blame there too, hard to make it exciting directing wise when your lead actor is immobile on the one spot and silent while another character gives a 20 minute power point presentation at the audience).
We also have Azhur Saleem who going on his IMDb page you are unlikely to have heard of as they have done very little, he is directing four episodes of Anansi Boys, a tv mini-series based on a Neil Gaiman book for Amazon, if it happens, and a bunch of shorts, and the rest they are just assistants on.
So yeah really breaking out the big guns for this one Chibbers!

Basically nothing here to inspire or give hope that there will be any notable improvement in standards either on the production or writing side of things. }}

Orphan 55 is probably the worst TV I have had the misfortune to watch, and that includes 20 year old episodes of Changing Rooms.

{{ In light of the stuff above about the Doctor's darker side came across this interview with Waris Hussein, director of Who at the very beginning with the 1st Doctor. He understood this aspect of the character, every classic showrunner of who did too, so did RTD and Moffat. Chibnall has yet to display any such understandingof any aspect ofthe Doctor's character, let alone thi one. }}

“All the externals they (the Doctor in their various forms) have to deal with; the threats, the adventures, the ability to escape mortal combat, should still be external compared to what's going on inside him, or her, which we do not ever understand. There should be a kind of mystery to that person.
Very early on in Doctor Who when we had Bill Hartnell we even made him into, not just an eccentric old man but he was capable of violence...the point is that's not just an eccentric old man he knows more than the mortals, if they've got to be sacrificed so be it. I mean you need to make him a dangerous person. And you need to be able to find comfort in his presence but also it should be an uneasy comfort.

(in response to the suggestion the Doctor could have the power and knowledge to destroy whole planets if he wanted to)

“I think you are giving him too much power, he is not able to exert it, he might want to, he might be capable of it, but he is limited. What is it that limits him? What is it that stops him that his beyond his own capabilities? Which is the mystery. Who dominates him in moments of crisis if he could destroy the world, and may want to but what is it that stops him? What is the other force? What is the mysterious force that is never explained? That is his frustration. He should be a very complicated person.” - Waris Hussein