Re: All New Who

by **Amarië** Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:55 am

Extreme.... Why?
Is there any way this will make sense?

Edit: Ooh, what a brilliant way to start a new page!

by malickfan Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:28 pm

Small update on the Christopher Eccleston Big Finish series as of last week 10 of the 12 scripts have been written and sent to the BBC for approval, and they will start recording with Eccleston 'very soon'-probably in the next fortnight.

No news on whether any of the Series 1 cast are also returning (though I think it's a safe bet Billie Piper will be i these).

I'm guessing because they are recording 12 episodes basically a new who series in length (perhaps all in one long recording block) the audio dramas will follow a loose story arc and sorta act like a Series 1b.

Hopefully Eccleston enjoys his experience returning to the character, as much as I enjoy Series 1 I think it would be more interesting for Big Finish to branch out and do stories set before the Doctor meets Rose or with a new companion.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:47 pm

{{ well there is scope for some 9th adventures before Rose, in that we see he was present at JFK's assination, and on the Beagle with Darwin. Would be tricky time to write 9 however, his immediate post Time War version, no companion- theres a lot of development of character youd have to ignore and not touch to keep it straight with Rose and how that affects him regards his post-war trauma.
But more 9 is good in my book. }}

by malickfan Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:22 pm

I think there's scope for one or even two companions before 9 meets Rose-as long as it is relatively short term and ends on bad terms or a tragic note (the 9th Doctor makes a couple of comments in Series 1 about 'choosing another stupid ape' when Rose dissapoints him with her actions).

Though there's two or three different off-screen gaps in the episode Rose alone in which they could insert new adventures.

In the novelisation:

Rose notices the cut the Doctor got when the table smashed has disappeared and he says twelve weeks have passed for him. During that time he has fought a pterodactyl.

In the episode itself:

This story seemingly implied that the Ninth Doctor had recently undergone regeneration from a past incarnation, when he commented about the features of his face while looking at a mirror in Rose's flat. The logical assumption at the time of his debut among viewers was that he had regenerated from the Eighth Doctor. However, this was disproven in 2013 when Steven Moffat conceived a new incarnation to retroactively insert between the Eighth and Ninth Doctors. The so-called War Doctor, played by John Hurt, did not call himself the Doctor until the end of his life and was an honorary, unnumbered inclusion among the other incarnations who carried the title fully throughout their lives. The War Doctor was cemented as the Ninth Doctor's predecessor when he regenerated into him near the end of TV: The Day of the Doctor. Additionally, in a retrospective on the new series in DWM 485, Russell T Davies stated the intention of the scene was merely him noticing the features, rather like being disappointed with "buck teeth" or similar un-aesthetically pleasing traits. He notes the Doctor in the episode is "in command" rather than post-regenerative, and he included the references to Krakatoa and Titanic to suggest this incarnation has a life before this episode.

Steven Moffat stated in 2013 that he believed that the Ninth Doctor is newly-regenerated here, as evidenced by his reaction to looking in the mirror. Russell T Davies disagrees: "No, I don't think he'd just regenerated. If you have certain physical features like big ears or buck teeth, you look at them and sigh every time you look in the mirror. And I think if you'd had eight different faces, even if you'd been in the current form for a hundred years, you'd still mutter at them. So it was meant as a nod to the fact he'd once had other faces. But I wrote the Titanic stuff and Krakatoa assuming that the Ninth Doctor had been around for a while. He doesn't act very post-regeneration, does he? He appears in command, waving a bomb. This is a man who knows himself, and has known himself for a while".

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Doctor_(novelisation)

It is said that the Ninth Doctor, soon after regenerating, smashed every mirror in the TARDIS to avoid seeing his new face, and thought of how many children he must save to make up for the ones killed on Gallifrey.

The Ninth Doctor let a therapy robot loose in the TARDIS, which was found centuries later by the Eleventh Doctor and River Song. It is implied that River used the robot to erase the Eleventh Doctor's memory of how many children there were on Gallifrey.

and: https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Doctor%27s_age#The_Doctor.27s_ninth_incarnation

"Big-eared" Ninth Doctor
The Ninth Doctor with big ears and a hawklike face (PROSE: The Tomorrow Windows) spent "weeks" having adventures between first encountering Rose in Henrik's, and turning up at the meal where he encountered Auton Mickey. (PROSE: Rose)

The Ninth Doctor claimed "900 years of time and space". Immediately after he made this comment, he told Rose Tyler it was "[his] age." (TV: Aliens of London)

He spent 28 years waiting on Earth to meet up with Rose in 1922, (AUDIO: The Other Side) and looked visibly older to Rose after he returned from his journey to the Causubus ship. (PROSE: Rose and the Snow Window) He later considered himself to have had "900 years of phone box travel". (TV: The Empty Child)

Considering Big Finish massively expanded the gap between Planet Of Fire and The Caves of Androzani (giving the 5th Doctor a new companion Erimem to travel with him and Peri) to cover a period of several years (though I think the Doctor/Peri end up having their memories wpied) I don't think they'll have much trouble finding gaps to slot episodes/new companions into (as noted above they have already created a 28 year long gap in the audiobook The Other Side

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Other_Side_(audio_story)

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:15 pm

{{ True there are always plenty of gaps. And 9 in Rose never did strike me as post-regeneration, but I wouldnt have given too much time between the end of the Time War and Rose either- maybe months, or a year would seem to fit with how he acts. Its more the issue of his personality prior to Rose, she is what helps him become fully the Doctor again, hard to write much in the space before then without treading on any of those character threads I'd think.
There's plenty scope for more 9 and Rose however inbetween the adventures we saw on screen if Billie Piper also returns for BF. }}

by malickfan Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:29 pm

It's taken over five years but I very nearly have the complete set of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Doctor_Adventures

Assuming I've counted properly I now have only have four left to get...

Recently started re-reading the whole series again from the start (I think I got up to book 40ish last time, about three years ago), just about to finish the second book, I think the differences between the two perfectly captures the range as a whole, and reminded me of how much I enjoyed reading through last time

The Eight Doctors...is a bit silly and kinda crap but it's a fun breezy read, full of nods to classic Who and a loving sendoff to the old series, it's not really a 8th Doctor story or dare I say a proper novel but an enjoyable enough way to spend a few hours. The book picks up immediately after the TV Movie's ending, the 8th Doctor (characterised as a generically 'jolly nice' chap and a bit scatterbrained...to be fair other than the TV Movie an a few short stories/comics there wasn't much to go on when writing for this Doctor) is wondering around the Tardis thinking back on recent events in San Francisco and deciding where to go for his first proper adventure, but he almost immediately looses his memory again (to a booby trap left behind by the Master before he was sucked into the Eye of Harmony) and is sent on a quest to meet up with his 7 previous selves to regain his memory. And so follows a series of vingettes (veering between clunky, funny and oddly touching) somewhat clumsily stitched together. The 8th Doctor drops into various stories from the Classic series (The War Games, State Of Decay, An Unearthly Child etc-the writer of the novel is Terrence Dicks who was the script writer/editor for most of the stories referenced) assististing his previous selves with their various adventues, gradually regaining his memories as the story goes along, eventually uncovering a conspiracy on Gallifrey (a certain individual called Rassilon is involved), and eventually starting to form a distinct character.

A rather strange subplot about drug dealers (which involves new companion Sam, a 17 year old runaway from Coal Hill School...she's even more thinly sketched than the Doctor in this book, but does develop into a kinda prototype Rose Tyler character in later novels) and an explanation for the Master's weird shapeshifting snake powers seen in the TV Movie are also worked into the novel...there's a lot going on!, in terms of pacing the story flies by.

The book utimately ends up feeling like a series of disconnected short stories awakwardly edited together, Terrence Dicks a) famously hated the TV Movie b) Wrote many scripts for the Classic Series (and by his own admission was more a plot writer than character writer) and c) subsequently novelised many of the Classic Who stories for the Target books series, all three things come across in the writing-you get the sense the author isn't particularly invested in the creative freedom of writing for a brand new doctor, but is also an experienced writer with a great knowledge of who lore and is writing to a deadline.

The Eight Doctors is a bit of an odd book, even 20+ years later it seems a very strange idea to have the first novel in the series act as almost a recap of the greatest hits of the Classic series, with the leading character forced to share screentime with so many others (and only coming into his own in the last few chapters of the book), it dosen't feel like a distinctly 8th Doctor story, more a collection of short stories stitched together.

Sam's role in the book is akwardly inserted, the 6th Doctor segment is boderline cruel (he's characterised as a fat shouty blowhard, obsessed with eating...did Terrence Dicks hate Colin Baker or something?) and reading about the Doctor being interrogated by the police for cocaine possession isn't quite as interesting as you'd think.

All that said it was a quick and enjoyable read, the segments with the 4th/7th Doctors are really enjoyable and for all the books flaws, Dicks does do a pretty good job at bridging the Classic series and the TV Movie's tone.

Definitely a bit of a oddity, and completely skippable if you ever read this seires.

Hmmm...I'd probably give it 5/10.

by malickfan Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:30 pm

The second novel in the series Vampire Science I have less to say about, but that's for a good reason-it's quite simply miles ahead of its predecessor in characerisation, plot, dialogue and even worldbuilding it feels like the true start of the EDA range and is a rather excellent peice of writing in its own right, let alone for being tie in fiction.

Vampire Science starts with the Doctor and Sam investigating a series of strange killings in 1970's San Francisco, a brief encounter with a young wannabe (earth and medical, not timelord) Doctor in training (Carolyn McConnell) ends in sudden violent fashion with a vampire (possibly) dead at The Doctors hands, and a very shaken Carolyn questioning all she ever knew about the world and her dreams for the future, The Doctor assures her all will be well and they likely will never meet again.

But of course they do, after this short prologue we jump forwards 20 years. Carolyn has settled into a new relationship, and has a fulfilling job as a lab technician* but she never forgot her one encounter with the Doctor years before, and closely follows news reports about a ressurgence in strange killing across the city. Sure enough the Doctor and Sam reappear on the scene (though for them it's been mere days since their last encounter) and their old acquaintance finds herself (and her rather unwilling boyfriend) roped into a strange adventure involving a coven of vampires, a rather grumpy UNIT officer called Brigadier Adrienne Kramer and a fully formed 8th Doctor desperate to avoid bloodshed at any cost.

I think it would be accurate to say Vampire Science feels more like the TV Movie than The Eight Doctors, but oddly I'd also say it feels more like the TV Movie than the TV movie itself...by which I mean it's an extremely confident and character driven story, told through a very American point of view (the Husband/Wife author team of Jon Blum and Kate Orman had previously written several of the 7th Doctor novels, and would go on to write several more of the EDA's-all of which were also great), it's an engrossing blend of gothic horror and gritty down to earth character drama, all the guest characters are very well written and it certainly feels a more modern and energetic story than the preceeding book.

Sam was awkwardly tacked onto the bookends of The Eight Doctors but in this book she is now a fully fledged companion, with a lot of growth and a main role throughout the book. She's bubbly (but somewhat cocky) and likeable, but also opinionated. Blum/Orman probably wrote Sam the best out of the early EDA writers, in some of the novels she sometimes came across as a cliched teenager awkwardly pared with the 8th Doctor (unlike the next Fitz Kriener who immediately fits in...I'll get to that in a a later review hopefully!), but hear she reads like a real 17 year old who thinks she knows it all, with the Doctor doing his best to keep her in check. There's a moment in the book where she questions whether she wants to continue travelling with the Doctor, whilst a welcome piece of character dpeth it does feel far too early in her travels to come to that conclusion.

The real triumph of the book is the 8th Doctor himself-Orman/Blum were clearly much more appreciative of the TV Movie than Terrene Dicks, and write McGann's Doctor very well, the ernest enthuisasm, sleight of hand and scatterbrained humour of the TV movie are captured brilliantly here. Vampire Science dosen't follow directly on from The Eight Doctors (a good move on the authors part i.m.o), we learn late in the book that it has already been three years since the Doctor regenerated but only a few months since he met Sam (he dropped Sam off at a concert-it was a hour for her, but years for him, he kept meaning to return but kept getting distracted) he's still finding his feet and something of a child at heart (we learn The Doctor has converted a room of the Tardis into a giant Butterly colony, he has also recently named the Tardis's resident bats and apparently obtained a Volkswagen Beetle from somewhere...rather amusingily we are told even he isn't sure how it fitted through the Tardis's doors) but there are already shades of the weary sarcasm he develops much later on in the Big Finish audio adventures.

We also learn than General Kramer had previously had a run in with the 7th Doctor (who she was not at all fond of), the authors use this to contrast 8's methods with his predessor, whereas the 7th Doctor was a schemer planning five steps ahead and willing to sacifrice the few for the many, the 8th Doctor is a man who thinks on his feet, throwing caution to the wind and unwilling to kill or sacrifice if he has too (this is conveyed through dialogue, no awkward flashbacks involved). Kramer and the Doctor regularly but heads throughout the book, it's remiscent of the Brigadier and the 3rd Doctor.

As I write this I'm maybe 3/4 of the way through the book, I can't recall how the book ends but I am enjoying it every bit as much as I remembered the first time around (hopefully it sticks the landing-in some of the EDA novels there's a tendency for the ending to feel rushed)...it's not a perfect book-it is perhaps a tad slow paced, most of the supporting Vampires are generic cliches, and the tonal inconsistency with The Eight Doctors does feel a tad strange this ealry on in the range (it's not necessarily a bad thing, but the EDA's don't feel truly consistent until around book 12 i.m.o), but overall it's a rather excellent bit of writing, more of a character/mood piece than Vampire slasher but that isn't a bad thing.

8/10

*Carolyn Mconnell was orginally supposed to be Grace Holloway from the TV Movie (hence the return to San Franciso and the similar backgrounds) but the rights to the character couldn't be cleared. The two characters are distinct enough that it dosen't really matter, but it's still a interesting bit of trivia.

It's been really interesting re-reading these books and seeing how the 8th Doctor was first developed all those years ago, when McGann first reprised the role for Big Finish in 2001's Storm Warning there had already been 42 full length 8th doctor novels and various comics/short stories, the audios rarely reference (and sometimes contradict) the novels but the charerisation is built on the prose stories that came earlier.

by malickfan Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:38 pm

And to give an idea of how the range developed, some of the later books include:

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Crooked_World_(novel)

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Dogs_and_Englishmen_(novel)

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Year_of_Intelligent_Tigers_(novel)

(I recall The Year Of Intelligent Tigers being one of my favourites in the whole series, so I'm quite looking forward to re-reading that one...I'm a looooong way off reaching that point though!)

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:41 am

{{ Ive not read any of the 8th Doctor books. However as a kid I did read a hell of a lot of Terence Dicks Target adaptations of the show. In fact my first introductions to 1st, 2nd and most of 3rd Doctors run was through those books as it was pre-VHS and the BBC never repeated old Who as they always had new Who on when I was growing up. I loved 2nd Doctor story Web of Fear, reread that a load of times and it scared the crap out of me every time. But I may well try to lay my hands on some of these, if only for that childhood nostalgia of reading a Dicks Who book again. }}

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:03 am

{{ It's always so odd when you hear Barrowman talk with his own accent, its quite rare to hear. }}

by malickfan Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:53 pm

Apparently there will be a couple of returning monsters in Series 13:

Spoiler:

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:56 pm

{{ Both confirmed (unofficialy).

Spoiler:

}}

by malickfan Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:46 pm

Eccleston has started recording the Big Finish stories Smile

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1338519205528932355

It looks like the first set is called 'Ravagers', the first story is called 'Sphere of Freedom' written by Nick Briggs.

Interesting that Billie Piper, Camille Coduri and John Barrowman aren't as yet announced to be in the cast, so it looks like all 12 of these stories may form a arc set before the 9th Doctor met Rose, which will be interesting

Perhaps there is less pressure on Eccleston this way-he can ease himself back into the role from a slightly different character perspectivr/storyline tone with a different creative team, rather than just doing more RTD style storylines with Billie Piper straight away. Series 1 was great and Eccleston was an excellent Doctor, but the most exciting thing about him doing Big Finish is that he gets a second chance to explore and expand on his character, without the series arc on TV getting in the way.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:15 am

{{ Great to see Eccelston coming back to the role. Looking forward to hearing those. }}

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:27 pm

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:46 pm

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:17 am

{{ First spoiler free review of the new years special from Radio Times, cant say as its made me any more excited for it. And if you havent kept up with the promotional material then it does in fact contain a lot of spoilers.

Spoiler:

}}

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:55 am

{{ Revolution of the Daleks, review.

Spoiler:

}}

by **Amarië** Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:23 pm

Haven't seen it yet. Tomorrow, I think. Yey...

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:53 am

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:23 am

{{ Further thoughts-

Spoiler:

}}

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:50 am

{{Viewing figures make interesting reading. This New Year special got overnights of 4.69 million, making it the third most watched show on UK Tv that day with 21% of the audience share (beaten by ITV's soaps and the news!).
But thats down a million on last years New years special. And given the entire country is in a forced lockdown you might think that would boost the figures.
And if you go back to Capaldi's last special, which was a xmas special Twice Upon a Time, and for which supposedly this era is a reaction to in order to increase viewing figures, well it got overnights of 5.90 million and consolidated at 8.28. And it was only four years ago.
Ill be surprised if the conoslodated for this episode hits 7.5.
Ant thats with the BBC throwing a lot of advertising at this one, particualry on Captain Jacks return.

4.69 is certainly not in cancelation terrority, given the current drop in network tv figures across the board,it was still the most watched show the BBC had on that day, but it has to be worrying that it failed to add to last years total and in fact dropped from it, and that it doesnt compare to preivous era specials (which rather bizarely is topped by xmas special Voyage of the Damned on a whoping 13.31 million) but even aside from it the lowest previous special prior to Chibnall was Return of Doctor Mysterio with Capaldi which still got 5.68 on overnights (consolidated at 8.21 million) and 27% audience share.
The trend is clear however for whatever reasons, fewer folk are watching Chibnal Who, and its not attracting new viewers to it.}}

by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:53 pm

Couldn't be bothered watching it, I watched celebrity The Chase instead, where Bradley was his normal sparkling self.

Doctor/Yaz romance? Rolling Eyes

sounds dire

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:17 pm

{{ The AI (audience appreciation score) is in for this and its a not good, 79. Thats the 7th episode of the Chibnall era out of 20 that has fallen below 80.
For the record the only episodes of NuWho to previously score less than 80 were Sleep No More, Rose, The End of the World and Love and Monsters. Thats only 4 episodes out of the entire first 10 series of NuWho plus specials.
Chibnall has racked up 7 in 2 series! (and he has another 4 just scraped 80, the average AI score for RTD era was 85.57 and for Moffat it was 86}}

by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:32 pm

I will come back once they have got rid of Chibbers and the fake Doctor.