US General Election 2016

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 30, 2018 2:51 am

{{I think what is noticeably different this time other than Trump is that in the past China have been the silent influencer behind the scenes of N Korea whereas this time they are taking a much more active and globally public role in matters- this is a risk on their part but they seem to think as part of their long term strategy to be a greater global presence that nows the time to make that move, plus N Korea is a hassle for them too- they cant from a strategic perspective not back them but that doesn't mean they support them }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 30, 2018 9:10 pm

{{{ Bit more on the Roseanne thing just because its rare I laugh out loud reading news- after she had attempted to blame her rampant racism on having taken a sleeping called Ambien the company who make the pill had this response-

"While all pharmaceutical treatments have side effects, racism is not a known side effect of any Sanofi medication."

Very Happy Brilliant response (Trump response was slightly more worrying as it seems to denote a lack of knowing the difference between comedy, satire, personal attacks- all of which are legit and fall under free speech and being a racist making racist slurs.)}}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 31, 2018 10:22 am

{{Someone who at least seems to be able to see what Trump hasnt been-

The US admiral expected to become the country's next ambassador to South Korea says North Korea remains the most imminent threat to peace in the Pacific but China's "dream of hegemony" is Washington's biggest long-term challenge.
Harris, who has been at the helm of the most expansive US military command for three years......said, "China remains our biggest long-term challenge. Without focused involvement and engagement by the United States and our allies and partners China will realize its dream of hegemony in Asia."
"A geopolitical competition between free and repressive visions of world order is taking place in the Indo-Pacific," Harris said.
"Great power competition is back and I believe we're approaching an inflection point in history.... Freedom and justice hang in the balance."- CNN  }}}

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Post by halfwise Thu May 31, 2018 1:03 pm

I think China is quite likely to allow freedom on the individual level in countries it takes control over, while dictating business policy. Basically the Hong-Kong model which has slipped of late, but is still more free of interference than other places in China.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 31, 2018 3:38 pm

{{{ So sorry Dave but I think your President is trying to ruin your business. Not content with starting a trade war with China Trump is now starting one with US allies, Canada Mexico and the EU, imposing 25% tarrifs on steel and 10% on aluminium.

The EU has responded saying it is considering retaliatory measures- }}}

'Europe had promised swift retaliation if it was hit with the trade penalties, and had warned it could quickly respond with 25% tariffs on US products such as motorcycles, denim, cigarettes, cranberry juice and peanut butter.

China imports $50 million worth of US cranberries a year -- or 15% of America's global exports -- according to the US Department of Agriculture. The European Union imports $130 million in cranberries, or 38% of US exports.'

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Post by David H Thu May 31, 2018 5:04 pm

From last month: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/04/11/trump-grassley-ernst-reynolds-china-tariffs-trade-war-iowa-farmers-soybeans-pork-corn-perdue/508287002/

The president on Monday acknowledged that American farmers may be hurt by Chinese tariffs.

"But I tell you, our farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they’re doing this for the country. And we’ll make it up to them. And in the end, they’re going to be much stronger than they are right now," Trump said.

Trump is right about one thing. There's a lot of patriotism in the farming community, but I don't have a  clue what he was thinking when he said "we'll make it up to them."

He's clearly ready to give away international markets that have taken us decades to build (and that South American corporate farms will be happy to take over), but I don't think he realizes that most American family farms don't have the luxury of just declaring bankruptcy and moving on when we have a couple bad years and can't pay our bills....

I honestly don't know if he understands that he's throwing a lot of his own voters under the bus or not.  Suspect

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 31, 2018 9:18 pm

{{And Trump was only talking there about 'making up' for Chinese tariffs- the EU market in cranberries is more than twice the size of that, thats a lot extra 'making up' to do! }}}

The UK said it was "deeply disappointed" by the US decision....EU trade commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said it was a "bad day for world trade", while European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the move was "totally unacceptable"....The EU has "no choice" but to bring a case before the World Trade Organization and impose duties on US imports, he added...
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the tariffs were an "affront" to the longstanding relationship between Canada and the US, especially to the "thousands of Canadian soldiers who fought and died alongside their American comrades-in-arms" in Afghanistan.
He said Canada plans to levy tariffs on American products worth about $13bn starting 1 July. It is also planning a challenge at the World Trade Organization...
France's junior trade minister Jean-Baptiste Lemoyne said he expects EU counter-measures to be completed by mid-June.
Canada's tariffs - which target about $13bn worth of US products - are expected to start on 1 July.
China has already imposed duties on $3bn worth of US goods, including wine and nuts, in retaliation for the steel and aluminium tariffs.- BBC

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu May 31, 2018 11:29 pm

I can understand him going after Chinese steel, but he seems to be damaging his own people and his friends as well. Suspect he thinks he is running a business and its Gordon Gekko he is dealing with.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:20 pm

The European Union issued a 10-page list of tariffs on US goods ranging from Harley-Davidson motorcycles to food products.
It also plans to challenge the move at the World Trade Organization (WTO)...French President Emmanuel Macron called Mr Trump to tell him the tariffs were "illegal" - a term echoed by Bernd Lange, chair of the European Parliament's international trade committee....UK International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said the 25% levy on steel was "patently absurd", adding: "It would be a great pity if we ended up in a tit-for-tat trade dispute with our closest allies."...the Labour shadow trade secretary, told the BBC's Today programme the US measures were "based on a lie", adding the UK should not be "bullied by the president ... we believe in a rules-based system and Trump doesn't"... Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister, said the US move was "totally unacceptable" and rejected the claim that his country posed a national security threat to America....Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray said his country was planning new duties for imports of steel, pork, apples, grapes, blueberries and cheese from the US.'- BBC

{{{Going well so far this- so the Republicans under Bush caused the entire global economy to collapse- Obama helped rebuild it and get it back in the black and now Trump is destroying it all and risks plunging the entire globe back into another recession or worse.

But more interestingly a few of the countries targeted are bringing up the security issues- Trump claims this is all for US national security which allows him to do it by Executive Order (is this not exactly what the Obama haters accused him of?) and gives him a loophole in WTO rules- but there are soft hints that 'security' in the broader sense is being brought into question now- that allies are quickly becoming former allies of the US- and in the future will not so keen to share vital information with the US or to engage them in any treaties or deals (as the US has proved with the Pairs Accord and the Iran deal that it's word means nothing and it cant be trusted to honour a deal).

When 9/11 happened there was a queue of countries ready and willing to immediately back the US in warfare against the aggressors- an almost immediate coalition of reliable allies could be counted on to help the US and provided political, military and public backing- does anyone think the same would happen now?}}}

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Post by halfwise Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Hopefully other countries will think of Trump as an anomaly. Hopefully he is.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:30 pm

{{Update}}

'The US is playing a "dangerous game" by slapping tariffs on European steel and aluminium, the European Union's trade commissioner has said.
Cecilia Malmstrom warned the move by US President Donald Trump would have consequences for the economic recovery of the EU, as well as US consumers.....Ms Malmstrom said the EU would challenge the move at the World Trade Organization (WTO) but that tariffs on US imports were necessary as "we cannot just take these tariffs and stay silent"....This situation could only be diffused by the US withdrawing its measures against the EU, she added.'- BBC

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 pm

{{I dont know Halfy- I think we risk the real prospect of long term damage being done here to America's international standing and reputation and an increase in influence filling the vacuum from Asia and Russia.
If Trump were to win a second term I dont think the rest of the world is going to just wait for America to get its act together- I think its going to start working out how to move forward without America, and if that happens I dont think America will get to the standing or influence it had before for along time. Trust is easily broken but hard to make.}}}

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Post by halfwise Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:48 pm

Well, a second term means Trump is not an anomaly so I wouldn't blame them for ditching America.

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Post by bungobaggins Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:45 pm

I'd I will vote for him again. Just to piss you guys off.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:26 pm

{{{ Not perhaps the most sound logic to voting but it does seem to be the most common reason for doing so in the US right now- to piss of the other side, its just raw tribalism and self-destructive.

But I am genuinely curious Bungo as to what you think the long term goal and benefits to the US of the N Korea situation is and how it will benefit the US? Or how breaking the long standing protocol that international treaties and deals made under one President are kept by another, even if they disagree, because America's reputation and word is more important than any individual administration is benefiting America on the International stage? And in particular in light of Trumps trade policies and there damage to American farmers such as our very own David, or those family farmers like him- many of whom voted for Trump- what benefit you think starting a trade war with all of the US biggest trading partners at once will achieve?

If you would vote for him again you presumably agree with these major policies, yet whilst you often state your support you never explain what it is you are voting for or what it is you are hoping will be achieved. }}}

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Post by bungobaggins Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:36 pm

I've made it perfectly clear that I don't think a deal should be made with a murderous regime. But Trump wants a win, so he's going to go for it. I wouldn't do it. I don't approve of it. Obama got a peace prize for doing less, by the way.

Quit with the condescension. I don't support the president in everything. I know what my reasons are and I definitely shouldn't have to justify or explain my support to people like you.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:52 pm

{{Honestly Bungo I am not trying to be condescending, I'm trying to get a better understanding of what it is people support him for. And you are not the first Trump supporter I have spoken to when asked about his major policies say- well I dont support everything he does or says- but I can never seem to find what policies it is people do actually support.

I get people voted for an idea- Make America Great Again- and there seems plenty support for that idea- but finding support, even among Trump supporters for his actual major policies and reasons why they think they are good seems a lot harder to find, and yet this lack of agreement with a lot of what he does doesn't seem to effect people who voted for him still supporting him.

That sort of situation where people blindly vote for one side or the other regardless hasn't existed in the UK for at least two decades- for example in Glasgow they used to say you could stick a Labour badge on anything and it would still win because people voted purely on party lines.
But that changed, party loyalty drifted away and people began voting based on policies, vision and dont feel the same loyalty to any one group or party- partly because there are viable alternative parties to the big two to vote for- Lib Dems, SNP, Welsh Nationals, Greens, UKIP ect
I find what is happening in the US interesting as it seems the complete opposite of what has happened here- you are ever more tribal it seems and ever more likely for people in the US to vote purely on the basis of which team they are on- regardless of their teams actual policies. Just as it was here in the past. }}}

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Post by halfwise Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 am

A lot of people voted for Trump because he would go mano a mano to do things to bring back American jobs.  Very concrete actions, not just theory.  And whether you agree that tariffs will save/bring back American industry, he's very clearly pursuing his objectives.  That's why he got support and will continue to hold it.

My disagreements with him aren't so much policy - well, I will disagree with his policy but concede the right to pursue alternate paths to what has been done recently - I just loathe the mean spiritness and anti-intellectualism that accompanies his policy.  If somebody else would lead the movement we'd be in a much better place.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:08 pm

{{I agree Halfy a large part of the problem is it Trump doing it, and more importantly how he does it.

The whole N Korea/China issue is a good example. Under normal circumstances the diplomats would be doing the groundwork long before any public announcements, and at the same time through international bodies, diplomats and public statements the issues with China would be worked out through US allies in the region and indirect talks with China.

Instead Trump announced the N Korea summit first without telling anyone who needed to know- ie the entire foreign department in the US and its diplomats- none of the ground work was done, positions on China and what US issues are and what US and allied interests are were not worked out.

Now its all happening in reverse with US officials scrambling to lay out the US position in a rush and at the last minute- in the last few days we have seen a sudden and concentrated attempt to undo the advantage already handed to China, I've given some examples already here is another from today-

'China is deploying missiles in the disputed South China Sea to intimidate and coerce its neighbours, US Defence Secretary James Mattis has said.
Speaking in Singapore, General Mattis said Beijing's actions called into question its broader goals.'

It all smacks of scrambling to make up ground at the last minute and that's because that is exactly what it is- Trump leads on impulse, gut feeling. He makes decisions out the blue based on his feelings and what was covered on Fox and Friends that morning, and leaves his government scrambling to fill in the details. }}}

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Post by halfwise Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:34 pm

Yeah, I should actually change my complaint from "anti-intellectualism" to the more wide ranging "anti-expertism". We have people who have spent their lives studying other countries and how to deal with them, and now the foreign policy experts in the State Department have been driven out. Leaders of all departments are chosen on the basis of loyalty rather than experience. Every president has done this to some extent, but the way Trump relies on cronyism is reminiscent of a medieval government run by the "nobility" rather than merit.

To counterbalance this, Obama had more "political" appointees to ambassadorships (based on support rather than merit) than any other president in history. I didn't like that one bit. I don't know how this compares to Trump, but he's not the only one to pad offices with his friends.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:07 pm

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics/videos/vb.908009612563863/2079914588706687/?type=2&theater


{{Now lets see Fox whats the difference?- ah yes you non-stop badmouthed the black guy for doing the stuff you praise the white guy for- now what's that phrase for that? ah yes- 'racist cunts!' Nod }}}

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Post by chris63 Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:35 pm

Unemployment is the lowest its been for 17yrs. (USA) Trump must be doing something right?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:08 am

{{Credit for that is a bit spread out. Trump inherited an economy in decent shape and that was steadily growing- the same sort of drops in the unemployment figures were the same ones trump discredited during his campaign as fake news.
He is responsible I would say for slightly accelerating the growth- but if you look into the figures its mainly Wall St and big business that is doing well, and a lot of that is because of the dumping of regulations- the olnger term consequences or costs of which we wont know for some time.
He has plunged the markets unnecessarily several times since taking office- and the effects of a five way trade war if it happens may yet put a break on growth globally.

Here's Obama stats for when he left office-


  • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.
  • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.0 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
  • After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.
  • The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before.
  • The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.


And here's Trump's -


  • Employment growth slowed by 12 percent. Nevertheless, the unemployment rate kept dropping, reaching a 17-year low. The number of job vacancies rose, also to a nearly 17-year record.
  • Economic growth picked up to a 3.2 percent annual rate in the July-September quarter from 1.5 percent for all of 2016.
  • Restrictions in the federal regulatory rulebook continued to grow, but at less than half the pace during the two previous administrations.
  • The number of coal mining jobs, which Trump promised to bring back, went up by only 500. Manufacturing jobs grew just a bit faster than total employment.
  • Real weekly wages rose 1.1 percent. Corporate profits and stock prices hit new records.
  • The number of people without health insurance went up — by 200,000 according to a government survey, and by 3.2 million according to a more recent Gallup poll.
  • The U.S. trade deficit that Trump promised to bring down grew instead, getting 11.5 percent larger.
  • The number of people on food stamps, which Trump wants to cut, grew by nearly 3 million.
  • The federal debt rose nearly 3 percent; projected annual deficits worsened.


So the biggest single improvement on Trumps watch is in the growth figures- they went form 1.5% to 3.2%- in no small part thanks to giving large corporations and businesses big tax breaks- this also goes some way to explaining why the deficit went up by 11.5%
So when you dive into the details its arguable if overall the economy is in much better shape than it was when Obama handed it over. It hasn't crashed the other way, it continues to grow but some areas less so than others, job figures continue to grow but under Trump its been slowing up by 12% and the effect of much of what Trump is doing has yet to be felt, such has his trade deals whatever they turn out to be. }}

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US General Election 2016 - Page 32 Empty Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:29 am

I said when Trump was elected I'd give him 2 years before I judged him as president. He's the least experienced we've ever had so I figure he deserves that. {{ so he's got 8 months left to sort out this trade war sh#t..... :drum: }}

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Post by halfwise Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:09 pm

This was such an obvious move I can't believe I didn't think of it.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/06/judge-orders-epa-to-disclose-any-science-backing-up-pruitts-climate-claims/

In March 2017, Scott Pruitt, the new administrator of Donald Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency, appeared on CNBC and said that carbon dioxide was not known to be a major factor in climate change. “I would not agree that it’s a primary contributor to the global warming that we see,” Pruitt said, adding, “there’s a tremendous disagreement about the degree of the impact” of “human activity on the climate.”

Based on what?

The next day, a group called Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the EPA, asking for any agency documents that Administrator Pruitt may have relied on to come to his conclusions. Since Pruitt’s words contradicted scientific evidence shared by the EPA before the administrator took office, PEER's request might turn up some recent document that indicated Pruitt had new information.
Instead, the EPA stalled and refused to provide any information to PEER. The employee group then sued the agency.

On Tuesday, a US District Court Judge for the District of Columbia issued a memo (PDF) saying that the EPA must comply with PEER’s request by July 2, offering any EPA documents that helped Pruitt come to the conclusion that he shared on CNBC last year. If certain documents can not be provided, an explanation for their absence must be provided by July 11.

In the Tuesday memo, Judge Beryl A. Howell described a slew of excuses used by the EPA to justify a refusal of PEER’s request. The EPA contended that PEER’s FOIA request was overly broad, that it was actually “an impermissible attempt to compel EPA and its administrator to answer questions and take a position on the climate change debate,” and that complying with the request would be burdensome.

In its own explanation to the court, the EPA argued that complying with PEER's FOIA request “would require EPA to spend countless hours researching and analyzing a vast trove of material on the effect of human activity on climate change” which amounted to “a subjective assessment upon which reasonable minds can differ.”

“Epistemological smokescreen”

Judge Howell disagreed with these characterizations, calling the Agency’s objections “hyperbolic” and saying claims that PEER’s FOIA was unclear “both misplaced and troubling.”

“The agency asks ‘how is one to even know precisely what documents one relies on in forming one’s beliefs?’” the judge wrote in her brief. “As the plaintiff points out, however, nothing in the FOIA request seeks information ‘about Administrator Pruitt’s beliefs or how they were formed.’” Instead, the FOIA only requests any agency documents that the administrator relied on to formulate his public statement.

The judge also called it “particularly troubling" that the EPA argued that evidence for a factual statement by the Administrator can be unknowable. “EPA’s strained attempt to raise an epistemological smokescreen will not work here to evade its obligations under the FOIA,” Judge Howell wrote.

The judge also accused the EPA of engaging in “a thinly veiled effort to make the request more complex and burdensome than it is.”

Howell concluded: “When the head of an agency makes a public statement that appears to contradict ‘the published research and conclusions of’ that agency, the FOIA provides a valuable tool for citizens... Compliance with such a request would help ‘ensure an informed citizenry, vital to the functioning of a democratic society.’”

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