Re: US General Election 2016

by halfwise Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:24 pm

I do so love Scaramucci. Trump's playground temper tantrum form of batshit crazy was getting a bit ho-hum. Now we've got a true Wall Street piranha type to up the entertainment value of this administration. If I had known this guy was coming I might have given in to my temptation to vote for Trump out of political boredom...the guy really does talk like Joe Pesci; I'd have started popping corn the day after the election.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:53 pm

{{Are you sure this guy is real Halfy? Not say a badly drawn cartoon character? (had to laugh when CNN said they were trying to get Joe Pesci in to read out Caramucci's tweets for them! Smile

) Feeling bad for all you US folks out there having to watch your health care being burned on the altar of ideology.
Still dont get why you dont just extend the medicaid program into a single payer health service that covers everyone Shrugging

Its not like there arent a ton of examples to pick from of various types of single payer- you know from every other civilized country in the world.
There is a very good reaoson no one else has a solely market based health service- it only benefits the wrong people not the patient or the populace, its way more expensive and creates an entire middle tier of insurers ect who are not needed, and its morally repugnant has it chooses a persons wealth as its priority over their need.}}}

by halfwise Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Oh Scaramucci is the real deal. You don't think these movie characters came out of thin air, did you? Come here and hang around a few street corners for a spell.

As for health care, you still seem unable to wrap your head around basic conservative ideology: free market good; government bad. This country simply has more conservative tendencies than Europe; the fact that it would be bureaucratically simple to just expand medicaid has nothing to do with it. In fact Obama did some of that, but if he had removed the free market component he wouldn't have even gotten democrats to vote for it.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:11 pm

{{ Come here and hang around a few street corners for a spell.- Halfy

Really? That would be like visiting Glasgow and expecting every street corner to have people in kilts playing bagpipes and eating shortbread whilst randomly yelling "och aye the nooo!"- its a stereotype, it doesn't actually happen!

Market-led health care doesn't work, never will. The interests of the market place are not aligned with the interests of providing care and health. Its more expensive, will never provide full coverage as you need money to get it (also making it morally indefensible along the way) and above all it does not work! Sorry but that last point is worth repeating.
Ideology shouldn't come into it- you look at the problem and you try to find the best solution to that problem. Market led health care is a non-starter- everyone outside of America can see that- and watching you lot die on the streets while your politicians argue about 'big government' or not is only entrenching that understanding. }}}

by halfwise Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:41 pm

Well yes, you may have to dig a little bit, but Scaramucci/Pesci is a real type. When people asked Scorcese if he amped things up for Wolf of Wall Street he said that in fact they had to tone things down or it wouldn't have been believable.

You don't run into them everywhere, but like attracts like. Trump is a cartoon character, so naturally.....

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:59 pm

you still seem unable to wrap your head around basic conservative ideology: free market good; government bad. - Halfy

{{But that doesnt make sense even within the US own terms- republicans support the US military- a socialist program funded collectively by taxation- exactly as health care would be.
I dont see Republicans arguing the government should get out of armed forces and let markets create militia groups as it would improve competition and drive down costs?
When you apply it to the military how stupid it is becomes obvious- but its no different with health care- some things the market cant provide fairly, universally or morally and that's why you need a government at all.
Defence, health are two things that should be chief among them. Otherwise what the buggery are you paying your taxes for? You get nothing back in the US as far as I can see. }}}

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:19 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Come here and hang around a few street corners for a spell.- Halfy

Really? That would be like visiting Glasgow and expecting every street corner to have people in kilts playing bagpipes and eating shortbread whilst randomly yelling "och aye the nooo!"- its a stereotype, it doesn't actually happen! }}}

It would actually be more like expecting to have a Ned or two f**k with you for the fun of it. Or Geordies farther south. Sure they're cartoon stereotypes, but you ignore them at your own peril ... pale

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
{{But that doesnt make sense even within the US own terms- republicans support the US military- a socialist program funded collectively by taxation- exactly as health care would be.
I dont see Republicans arguing the government should get out of armed forces and let markets create militia groups as it would improve competition and drive down costs?
}}}

You're making the mistake of assuming Conservative = Republican. It's not that simple. There's nobody more conservative than an old-school Southern Democrat for example. I think expanding medicare/medicaid is slowly starting to make sense to more and more people, but don't forget that each of the 50 States has its own Insurance Commission and each has historically regulated the insurance market differently, so maybe you can see how there's not a lot of trust for the federal government erasing all the rules your State has put in place over the last 100 years. It's not that much different than Scotland's concern about being regulated from London.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:57 pm

{{{ I take yor point about conservatism.
But I dont see the state thing as an issue. They wont need the insurance markets so thats almost gone saving a fortune immediately. Yeah you'd still have a small number for the wealthy intent on private healthcare- but no one takes that option away in a single-payer system, its just that, an option, alongside it for those who want it. But you would not need the massive insurance market you currently have leeching off the sick.
You use Scotland as an example and the same could work there for states- Government agrees citizens have a right to health care provided by the government for all its citizens. The Federal government funds state level to run their own system of single-payer, single/private partnership, just as Westminster funds the Scottish government but healthcare is devolved to Scotland to actually implement as they see fit.
And the states can add to that budget if they wish for particular local needs (say a state with a high number of oap's) with local choices in local taxation and revenue raising or even involvement of private sector partnerships- so long as the principle is met of health care free at point of need for all paid for through taxation as primary source, your good to go. Whats the problem with that? }}}

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:27 pm

That's pretty much how Medicaid (as opposed to Medicare) works right now. Each State manages its own program with different thresholds and coverage, and some of them have privatized a lot more than others. There's both federal and state funding going into the pot.

A big part of Obamacare was increased funding to the states' Medicaid programs with some strings attached, which is I think pretty much what you're suggesting. It was supposed to be the beginning of a discussion that would allow each state to adjust gradually, and we could all learn as we go. Then the politics got in the way Mad

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:32 pm

{{ So I as right to start with! Mad

The only real obstacle to states running their own version of single payer health care, covering everyone and funded through central taxation, is ideology. Mad

There are no real practical obstacles in the way. As you say, you already have a similar system in place for part of your health care. }}}

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:47 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{The only real obstacle ... is ideology. There are no real practical obstacles in the way. }}}

Well, sort of. But there's profit involved as well, and when you mix ideology and profit you've got a pretty serious obstacle.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:58 pm

{{That's why you need the Government to enshrine in your Constitution thingy that healthcare is a right not a privilege of wealth.
That takes the profit motive out the whole argument.
And if folk are worried about job losses in pharmaceuticals and insurance the number of people being covered would go from whatever pitiable amount it is now to everyone- that means lots more health care centres, hospitals ect and all the attended staff they require. Its a job maker. Much better than massive infrastructure projects which only produce a bubble of short lived employment that eventually pops when you finish building everything. }}}

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:12 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{That's why you need the Government to enshrine in your Constitution thingy that healthcare is a right not a privilege of wealth.}}}

Good Luck! That would take an act of Congress requiring a 2/3 majority! These clowns can't even seem to reach 50% clown

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:27 pm

{{Anyone listening to Trump speech right now- what a rambling mess. Oh and he has promised 'big things are coming, next week.' Does anyone buy that line any more he has been using it since he claimed he had evidence Obama was not American! }}}

by Mrs Figg Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:49 pm

Scaramucci! Jersey Shore goes to Washington. class act.

by malickfan Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:32 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Anyone listening to Trump speech right now- what a rambling mess. Oh and he has promised 'big things are coming, next week.' Does anyone buy that line any more he has been using it since he claimed he had evidence Obama was not American! }}}

I'm honestly beginning to wonder if Trump is showing early signs of Dementia or Alzheimer's with his angry rambling speeches and increasingly mumbling way of speaking, watching old videos/interviews with him and it's surprising how different he sounds, and that wouldn't be entirely down to mere ageing...

by Eldorion Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:03 pm

Eldorion wrote:For now anyway; the writing seems to be on the wall that Priebus won't be working in this position for much longer.

15 hours later...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/us/politics/reince-priebus-white-house-trump.html

US General Election 2016 - Page 19 78FUVgvl

by Eldorion Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:41 pm

Beyond the hilarity of the Mooch's interview, this is significant for the likely implications it'll have on the relationship between the Trump White House and the Congressional GOP. Things have always been fraught given how Trump's only been a Republican for a couple of years and regularly disagrees with core Republican policy proposals, and the situation is even more strained now given the repeated failures of the health care bills. Priebus was the main bridge between the two though, as he was the chairman of the RNC for a number of years and is close with Speaker Paul Ryan. Someone asked Ryan about the Priebus-Scaramucci thing yesterday morning...

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/890606566147334149

Paul Ryan wrote:Reince is doing a fantastic job at the White House and I believe he has the president's confidence.

by David H Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:12 pm

Reality TV at its finest! Nod

by Lancebloke Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:28 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{That's why you need the Government to enshrine in your Constitution thingy that healthcare is a right not a privilege of wealth.
That takes the profit motive out the whole argument.
And if folk are worried about job losses in pharmaceuticals and insurance the number of people being covered would go from whatever pitiable amount it is now to everyone- that means lots more health care centres, hospitals ect and all the attended staff they require. Its a job maker. Much better than massive infrastructure projects which only produce a bubble of short lived employment that eventually pops when you finish building everything. }}}

I think this video makes some good points, including how Trump made the case for single payer during his campaign.

Plus, always fun to watch a Fox 'News' anchor stumble over their tongues.

by halfwise Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:46 pm

Unfortunately rational thought and partisan politics don't mix. The healthcare discussion in this country may not be as partisan as climate change, but it's still got a significant hurdle. I think most of the resistance doesn't come from the grassroots conservatives who actually experience the costs of healthcare so much from the wealthy leadership who don't have to worry about it.

by David H Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:17 pm

I had to walk away from the computer when I read this! slap laugh

Because the Mooch is such a classy guy! Nod

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/anthony-scaramucci-after-divorce-news-soon-we-will-learn-who-in-the-media-has-class-and-who-doesnt/article/2630098

Anthony Scaramucci once again appeared to comment Saturday morning on a report that his wife, Deidre Ball, has filed for divorce, taking aim at the media.

"Family does not need to be drawn into this. Soon we will learn who in the media has class and who doesn't. No further comments on this," the new White House communications director tweeted.

No further comment? Sad

Oh please, please, pleeeeeeeeeze!!!!! :carrot:

by halfwise Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:58 pm

I do sympathize with him on this, and despite the irony I think he is being somewhat classy by inviting people to hit him as hard as they want but leave his family out of any reporting. That at least shows some respect for his wife and kids, even if he didn't have enough respect for her wishes to stay away from the Trump bonfire.

by David H Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:43 pm

I've got sympathy for his family, but have you heard his interviews? I was looking deeper and he's always arguing about the rules of the interview like this, hitting low, and then crying "No Fair!" If the press are now making his personal life public, he's gotta know he's at least partly responsible for that, doesn't he? Or is this a NY thing??

Because we're going to execute the agenda and he's going to get re-elected. I told Tapper, I'll send him a box of Kleenex.
CUOMO: I don't know why you said that, by the way.
SCARAMUCCI: I'll send him a box of Kleenex when he wins the election in 2020.
CUOMO: Jake Tapper is one of the most straight down-the-middle guys. It's insulting when you say that. It's insulting when you say that.
SCARAMUCCI: Let's focus on right now [inaudible] what's that?
CUOMO: It's insulting when you say something like that to Jake Tapper, by the way.
SCARAMUCCI: I'm teasing him.
CUOMO: But that's not a nice thing to tease a journalist about.
SCARAMUCCI: You guys are unbelievable. You're allowed to hit me [inaudible] with a battle axe--
CUOMO: It's like teasing us about being Italian. It's not nice, it's offensive. When you say to a journalist I'll bring you a Kleenex, because you'll be upset if the President gets reelected you're suggesting that they're biased. It's not nice.
SCARAMUCCI: Okay, okay, Chris, I'll tell you what. You'll send me toilet paper if he loses. I'm making a joke. What I love about you guys, you hit me three times hard, I say something teasing, you guys get upset.
CUOMO: You think this is hard?
SCARAMUCCI: Relax.
CUOMO: I'm giving you pats on the head like you're a puppy. These are just regular questions.
SCARAMUCCI: Finally we're having a real straight-up conversation.
CUOMO: Let me ask you something straight up --
SCARAMUCCI: Just relax.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/scaramucci-new-day-transcript/index.html