US General Election 2016

To be fair to the Great Orange One, what he probably meant to say is "What I saw last night on fox news about what is happening in Sweden."

http://www.mediaite.com/online/did-trump-think-there-was-an-attack-in-sweden-because-of-a-tucker-carlson-segment/

This report is almost definitely biased, but saying nothing is going on in Sweden is also biased. I'm getting more careful about watching both sides and taking an average.

{{Oh they have problems there.particularly in the outskirts where they housed most of the immigrants, none is denying that, what country doesnt have issues and the current immigration crisis is nearly unprecedented in the last century at least, that will inevitably bring with it a raft of its own issues- but those are problems of culture and assimilation, those take time and are understood too. But nothing like what Fox is on about- hell the Swedish cop they are touting as backing up Trumps words was done for racism, so not sure he's Mr Reliable on the topic.
And it doesn't change the fact that the rape headline is false as it was that way before any refugees from Syria, and it doesn't change the fact they have taken in 200,000 immigrants and had no terrorism. Crime, yes, terrorism no.

And Trump listed the attack in German, the attack in France then Sweden, if he was referring to a news report from the night before thats a terrible context to put it in. }}}

I'd like to see the documentary featured on the Tucker Carlson report taken apart piece by piece to see how they could make the claims they do.

{{I would reckon by taking the facts but not giving the context then juxtaposing that with the migrants figures.

Ive been doing some reading on why the rape figures are higher.
It boils down to several factors (this was all true before the refugees fro Syria arrived)
1. Sweden has a very open liberal culture in which sex is an open subject. As a result Swedish women report sexual crimes far more than in most western nations.
2. rape as a legal term in Sweden includes offenses not classified as such in other countries such as sexual harassment in the workplace. This obviously dramatically increases the 'rape' cases.
3. There has however been an increased spike in rape crimes since the arrival of the Syrian refugees- among the refugees themselves with almost all reported victims being from within that group. What is a small glimmer of encouragement from that is that woman in that group feel they can go to the authorities and report it as a crime. In other western countries refugee population these thing more often remain solely within the group and are never reported and so never make it into official figures.
4. The Swedish police force and is very good, well staffed, well paid and highly efficient.
5. Swedish courts find more accused of rape guilty than the average European country. In part down to the broadness of the term.

Taken altogether they explain why Sweden has the highest rape levels in Europe.

But if you only report the fact it is the highest without all that context, and then you point out the increase since the refuges arrived, again leaving out the context its almost exclusively within their own numbers, and then you imply a link between the two. It equals, Sweden is the rape capital of Europe because of Syrian refugees. }}}

Ah, that's very good. I'll bet there were a lot of immigrant women who were relieved to finally be somewhere they actually *could* report rape and get some satisfying response to it.

There will be some nasty incidents in Sweden until the young immigrants learn to adapt to their new surroundings, what is acceptable in Syria, is not acceptable here. they need education not branding as criminals. Young men who come from a culture like Syria and are suddenly exposed to drink, open attitudes to sex and women with unheard of freedoms and it will send some of them over the edge into frustrated rage, until they get told that they will need to settle down or get deported. or imprisoned. that should do the trick.

{{Its not impossible Figg- if you took 200,000 random Brits and dumped them in an other country there would obviously be some right bastards in there. You would expect some trouble. But you cant exclude all the rest out of fear of the few who are bastards. You deal with them as they become apparent to you they are bastards.
If you let fear govern your attitude to those most in need then you have no moral courage whatsoever, you are a moral coward and have no authority to judge or lecture others on their morality. And before now the US prided itself on having that moral centre. If they lose it they lose authority.

If you have 10 humans who are suffering and in pain and 1 out of the 10 you know wants to harm you, but you dont know which, you dont turn away the ten to die and suffer. You take the ten in and do all you can to protect yourself against the 1 bad when they emerge. Otherwise we are turning our back on all those in need. I dont want to live in that world.

In the meantime you do all you can assimilate the arrivals with language and culture education and ideally employment of some sort to keep idle hands busy and you give the real prospect of advancement according to talent and skills and a future life.
In short what most people want.


You not solve the issue by stigmatizing large groups of people as if they are all the same, appointing blame and pointing fingers, or by banning entire sections of humanity on the basis of religion or culture or nationality. }}}

If you're talking to Trump you're basically talking to a wall.

{{Not specifically more a general 'you' so by default does include him- though I dont think he cares about any of that- all he cares about is keeping his supporters cheering and in making himself the greatest President ever, if that means ignoring facts in favour of rhetoric and fiction, demonising any critical voices as unpatriotic and enemies of the people then so be it. So long as those supporters keep cheering and chanting his name. }}

its just so weird, borders when you think of it are arbitrary made up nonsense. if aliens ever come here we will have a hard time explaining why borders are important to us humans, "what you wont let humans who are exactly like you in your country because they are browner and like big hats with tassels on."

{{{ Sadly I suspect we are probably the only sentient race in the galaxy so stupid we have invented racism on a planet with only one race. }}}

One human race and plenty of individuals who are plain stupid....

{{Aye, just us stupid homo-sapiens at the bottom of this gravity well (we got rid of the other human-like hominid races long ago). Fighting each other over whose shade of skin is the right one, imaginary lines on maps, all to acquire bits of paper we pretend have some value, when we're not killing each other in hideous ways over whose imaginary super being is the real imaginary superbeing that is.
If I was an alien I'd just shake my heads in disbelieving pity and move right on by. Probably put a sign up for others -'Warning! Insane species beyond this point'  }}}

This super being, what if.... ummm... what if... well, what if he was blaaaack?

{{{Well if Heaven is up somewhere in the blackness of space that would explain why no-one can see Him. (now is that a racist joke? Even though its about a God? )

If you say we never see him, because looking down on us he's got no reason to smile....then you're veering into dangerous territory.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Aye, just us stupid homo-sapiens at the bottom of this gravity well (we got rid of the other human-like hominid races long ago). Fighting each other over whose shade of skin is the right one, imaginary lines on maps, all to acquire bits of paper we pretend have some value, when we're not killing each other in hideous ways over whose imaginary super being is the real imaginary superbeing that is.
If I was an alien I'd just shake my heads in disbelieving pity and move right on by. Probably put a sign up for others -'Warning! Insane species beyond this point'  }}}

I was just reminded of why I avoid the "Serious" sub-forum. 

I was just reminded of why I avoid the "Serious" sub-forum.- Forest

{{No offense meant Forest- just my quirky, blasphemous way of wording things.    You can be secure in the knowledge if I'm wrong Ill burn for all eternity for it- seems a bit harsh to me from a loving God who refuses to manifest Himself as evidence, but there you go.   }}}

{{Dave- I think Ford might have undersold us on that one. True if we stay confined to our planet I'd say, where we will probably just blow ourselves up given time }}

{{ Credit to Trump on the seemingly rare occasions its due- but that McMasters seems a reasonably solid pick and I say half of the speech he gave at the African-American Museum. It was still, Trumpy, in its delivery but he condemned prejudice and intolerance and he was respectful and gracious to those around him. I dont know, as I only saw half of it if he then went off the rails again and started ranting about the media or boasting about his win, but hopefully not. As whilst the delivery was not exactly Presidential the substance of what I saw in that speech at least was. If we got a lot more of that Trump and a lot less of ego bragging, twitter addicted, cable news addicted Trump there might be a glimmer of hope.
Also I am finding some of his negotiating tactics interesting. NATO for example. His tactic there, if it has been a deliberate tactic, has been to run it down, play down its worth and value in the modern world, but to attach that analysis to the fact only 4 members fully pay their way. Stage two he sends out his actual negotiators who reassure now worried NATO members that the US does indeed value the releationship and will honour and back its commitments, but you really do need to make the spending commitments. And I suspect most will. Something former Presidents have tried to achieve and failed at.
The risk of course with this strategy is that you are dealing with allies in a manner which has a good chance to cause offense and resentment further down the line. But certainly short-term I predict it will look like a win.}}}

Any alien life form out there would see what we are. Just another type of animal on the planet, defending territory and food resources from intruders of any kind with the tools available and making alliances when it benefits us. We battle the neighbor, the next town over, the other county, rural vs city, country vs country, soccer team vs soccer team, etc. etc. etc. Same shit, same instincts, different wrapping.

They would probably view us with the same interest we do a talking parrot. Actually, I don't doubt that we are the lol-cats of the universe already.

You guys seem to keep forgetting that there is more than one intelligent species on earth.

And what do they do when we are near us? They laugh.