All New Who

On a different subject, someone mentioned over on Gallifreybase that Phillip Segal (the executive producer for the 1996 TV Movie, who was responsible for McGann landing the part, and had come up with the storyline) was trying to sort out the rights issues with Grace (and possibly other characters) potentially clearing the way for Daphne Ashbrook to reprise the role of Grace for Big Finish (Big Finish did approach Universal years ago for the rights to use the characters, but the complicated rights issues, and a prohibitively expensive license fee rendered it unfeasible at the time).

I'm trying to remember what was said at the Capitol convention the other week by Daphne Ashbrook. I think she said something was happening with the ownership and that Philip Segal was involved.


...She did mention that she wasn't supposed to talk about it but then did anyway. Something about how many parties all have hands in the ownership but Segal (I think) was doing something about it. No hint as to what it might lead to though.

Of course, the poster in question could have misheard or be joking, but I've got my fingers crossed (though I'll wait for further news before getting my hopes up), Asbrook was great in the TV Movie i.m.o, she had very convincing chemistry with McGann and Grace seemed a character with a lot of potential, she's voiced other characters for Big Finish before and has repeatedly stated she'd love to reprise the role.

Here's hoping this leads somewhere...

{{{That would be interesting- given the leanings towards a romantic subplot between them, which would have made 8 not 10 the first Doctor to fall in love with his companion- if they would go down that story route.
Personally I much prefer my Doctor not to have any interest in sex, or any real understanding of that human habit. }}}

{{{ Where is that Fjordian lass? }}}

Trying to choose her words. It's going... we'll I am trying, but frustration wants out you know.

{{{With care is a good idea of course, but dont mince your words either- you are Fjordian afterall }}}

*settles down* So, scab picking it is.

At least this does not contain the M-Word, but viewer discretion is advised :

Up to that we had a great run. A whole series where things actually hangs together and there's even a few 'fear her' -esque episodes/scenes and some heavily underlined 'this is a clue!!!!!!!!' scenes.

I still like Ashildir though. And Missy turned out to be a fun character to watch. And I think they managed to not have anyone purr and flirt with the doctor! I am stunned! There was a little fan-girling, but that's ok.

Oh, and I am saving the feminist discussion for later.

{{{Well that could have been a lot worse- you actually seemed to have enjoyed everything bar the ending, which is good.

But about that ending, here's my take on things addressing what you said, starting with-

'we get a "fake" death and the actual ending of Clara is pushed off-screen where she will spend the rest of her days'

Her death is not fake- that's how Clara dies- its a fixed point, there is no get out clause. Trap Street is where she ends up, not therefore offscreen, we see it painfully and in slowmo in Face the Raven- that's her death, always.
All she has is a bit of 'wiggle room' along the way to it, the show is generally optimistic in outlook so it doesn't dwell on the fact that will probably not be a lot of wiggle room as it wont take the Time Lords long to find her. At which point its death on Trap Street.

Clara- "Why does everyone think I am so scared? We all face the raven in the end, that is the deal."

The diner TARDIS is cheesy I will say, and yes it does rather drive home the point that she is setting out in very similar circumstances to the Doctor, in a stolen TARDIS on the run form the Time Lords.
But its not like the Clara is becoming like the Doctor is just suddenly sprung on the viewer out of nowhere RTD style, its been an ongoing character development for two series, and arguably since 'Cold War' with 11.

'Couldn't even have the mind wipe work properly.'

Not sure what you mean by that- he forgets her completely, he only pieces together what they must have done from the gaps she left in his memory, he is ridiculously clever afetrall- but he cant remember anything personal about her, what she looked like or sounded like or the things she said to him. So it worked fine as a memory wipe.

'At least RTD eventually learned that when you end things you have to do it properly.'

-cough- Rose

'Tardis-with-no-personality doesn't mind that a time-anomaly and the reason for time dying-or what ever was happening- hops in and takes off. Convenient. '

Again not sure what you refer to here. What time-anomaly? The Hybrid is self fulfilling prophesy and time isn't dying save that it will if Clara doesn't die on Trap on Street, as her death is a fixed point in time. That rule- that breaking a fixed point shatters space and time is long established- we even saw it in action in the Wedding of River Song. I don't see what the TARDIS should be avoiding- she tries to run from the 'ghosts' as they are an anomaly in the Under the Lake episodes, and the Doctor only stops her by putting the handbrake on. But other than that I don't know what you are referring to.

'And now we have in theory three 'immortals' girls roaming the universe.'

Clara is immortal only in the sense she cant die or age, but not immortal in the sense she is going to find herself on Trap Street, where she dies very soon. And there is Ashildir who is immortal. Whose the 3rd though?

Finally not sure what you mean by Fear Her episodes (ok maybe the Gatiss episode) but not any of the others.

Still, overall good to see you largely enjoying your Who again - no mention of what you thought of 12 though- anything to add in that regard?}}}

It's her death..... eventually.

'At least RTD eventually learned that when you end things you have to do it properly.'

-cough- Rose

*cough* read that sentence again *cough*


Jenny, Clara and Ashildir. Imagine them getting together to tow a moon or something. *shudders*

I am saving the feminist discussion for later- Amarie

{{{ I don't see there is one in this series- other then to acknowledge a good series for women in front and behind camera }}

'It's her death..... eventually. '

Soon in all likelihood. It only took the Time Lords to the end of 2's run to catch up with him, ok he called them in, but it was clear they knew everything he had been up too anyway, and from then on they kept tabs on him and interfered whenever they saw fit until the Time War- they can track her all right- not only is she in a stolen TARDIS she is anomaly on the loose. I give her a week if she is on her game before she is back on Trap Street- but either way its not a fake death- its her death, and we see it, its just being Who we see it before we see all her existence (rather than all her life).

'Jenny, Clara and Ashildir.'

Jenny? The Doctors Daughter Jenny? She was RTD's creation nothing to do with current goings on- and given her manner of creation we have no idea how stable she was, how may regens she has, or if she is even still alive and she wasn't immortal, she was just Time Lord. }}}

But aren't there a billion Claras? she has been exploded into an infinite number of Claras when she jumps into the Doctors timeline, so which Clara will the Time Lords chase?

{{Not exactly- there is only 1 Clara- the original- the rest are more like from her as the template, but they are born in their own times and places and are there own individual person.

"The souffle isn't the souffle, its the recipe"

The original Clara is the recipe the others are created from, scattered across the Doctors timeline.

But its more likely they will just track the TARDIS she is in down. They gave the Doctor 'upgrades' for the TARDIS from the 3rd Doctor on- he kept refusing (particularly 4) to use them in the belief they were just sneaky ways for the Time Lords to track and spy on him.
Plus we know her death is a fixed point, and if it doesn't happen then the universe ends, which it hasn't so they must catch her and she dies on Trap Street (or more likely given her character she goes back willingly after a bit of arsing about and having one last tip of a lifetime with Ashildir}}}

its still a cop out.

Amarië wrote:Oh, and I am saving the feminist discussion for later.

lets get da party started!

She was RTD's creation nothing to do with current goings on

Yeah, 'cause where would this show be if it was based on other people's creations!? Imagine some previous writer's characters started showing up! Awkward, right?

Jenny has been created, we don't know what happened. She is part of the Who universe, it's just a fact. Clara has devided herself into countless copies through time and space. When ever the Doctor needed a Clara, there would be a Clara. I have called her a get-out-of-jail-free card before, and she is. Jenny taking off into space was a bad idea, Clara Copies was a bad idea too. It's a problematic idea.

Another thing is that Ashildir has been alive since year 900-or-so to the very end of time. While Doc relived the same day for a billion years, she lived all those days. I think you can be sure she has picked up a few friends, foes and ideas a long the way. Especially considering her goal of protecting the earth from the Doctor and billions of years to study, probably has lead to a lot of knowledge of the timelords (and many many ideas of what she'd do if she got her hands on a TARDIS). If she sticks around with Clara then I am sure she will give them a run for their money.

{{{Maybe Ashildir could do a lot- but then she only has a human memory span and forgets everything over time too. But we know Clara dies on trap street because we see it happen, and it not happening ends time, as time doesn't end then it must have/will have/has happened. QED in Who logic. Clara dies on Trap Street. All that's debatable is how much 'wiggle room' she manages to get first.
I could forsee Ashildir turning back up at some future point in the show with Clara long gone, and her in a stolen TARDIS- good villian potential there I feel.

Not sure why the Clara's copies are problematic, not like we will run into any, they are all in the Doctors past, none in his future or present}}}

It just struck me, that this at least the 13th Who thread on this forum!...although it's mostly me, Petty, Figgs and sometimes Amarie who seem to post frequently about Who, would this make Who the most popular/debated subject on this forum?

Obviously the Hobbit films and Tolkien books are discussed all the time and would outnumber Who in post count, but I don't think any separate subject thread has ever been split more than five or six times...

Quite impressive, considering some of the Who forums I'm aware of only have a handful of posts every week...

{{{Well there might be a lot of disagreement on this thread at times, but at least its passionate and long winded disagreements! Talking of which where's Amarie's feminism and series 9 piece? }}}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{Well there might be a lot of disagreement on this thread at times, but at least its passionate and long winded disagreements!  

True,

(This is the guy who wrote about 20 pages on NOTD and The War Doctor so I know all about longwinded...)

It just shows how indifferent we were to TH...I still argue and get dissapointed by Dr Who sometimes, because I still care about the series, I have barely even thought about TH films for months...

{{{Now you mention it thats very true, havent thought of TH in any serious way for some time, well not that I ever could take it seriously as such but you know what I mean.
WHo on the other-hand crosses my mind very regularly.
Even Figg, who is of course wrong about all things Who in Moffat era only hates it because she loves it. Much like my own feelings about RTD era. Mind you, much like TH I dont think of RTD era Who very often either, not without cringing a bit at least }}}

I suppose in a morbid way I've sorta learned to love hating the hobbit...

Talking of which where's Amarie's feminism and series 9 piece?

Riiight, I should get around to do that some time...

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{Now you mention it thats very true, havent thought of TH in any serious way for some time, well not that I ever could take it seriously as such but you know what I mean.
WHo on the other-hand crosses my mind very regularly.
Even Figg, who is of course wrong about all things Who in Moffat era    only hates it because she loves it. Much like my own feelings about RTD era. Mind you, much like TH I dont think of RTD era Who very often either, not without cringing a bit at least }}}