Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [5]

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:42 pm

The IRA/Sinn Fein thing was ridiculous though. You can agree with that without in any way agreeing with their actions.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:54 pm

The problem is how he did it- you cannot when the families of the dead are newly in grief parade the men who ordered their murders in heart of the countries democracy.
Its a stunt- one that's in very bad taste- and as things currently stand in NI, which is as Galadriel might put it, is on a knife edge, stray but a little and it will fall, another stunt like that could have catastrophic effects.

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:04 am

Listen, Corbyn is going to have Labour minders telling him that opening wounds in NI is not going to fly. This Watson chap is probably going to be the public face of labour rather than Corbyn himself. I don't think he will be allowed to stir any sectarian shit up. Len the Union leader will have a quiet word in his ear I am sure.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:35 am

Well he dumped the Shadow Minister for NI- despite that Minister saying he would continue on in the role under Corbyn- not sure thats a good sign at all.
And he has appointed the very controversial John McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor- some choice McDonnell comments and quotes-

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA."
He added: "Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands we now have a peace process."

Mr McDonnell told a rally at the annual trade union conference in Brighton that he had been “campaigning for the nationalisation of the banks” for years.

“Let’s also make it absolutely clear to any speculators in the City looking to make a fast buck at the taxpayers’ expense that if any of these assets are sold by Osborne under their value, a future Corbyn-led Labour government will reserve the right to bring them back into public ownership with either no compensation or with any undervaluation deducted from any compensation for renationalisation.”

No top jobs in Corbyn's Labour for any women either- its an all boys club.

by halfwise Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:36 pm

incredibly insensitive to praise the terrorist wing of the IRA anywhere but behind tightly closed doors. Even if he's right.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:42 pm

That's exactly my issue Halfy- there is a time and a place- and that's once the deals are done and not for a PR stunt, and definitely not during behind the scenes negotiations when such stunts have the potential to wreck everything.

Great quote from a 'senior' Scottish Labour figure to BBC Scotland's political editor Brian Taylor regarding the possible effect of Corbyn on Scottish Labours chances-

"Brian, either this is the making of us in Scotland. (Long pause) Or, alternatively, we're completely fucked."

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:39 pm

Interesting choice from Corbyn for Shadow Defence- Maria Eagle- who was thought to be in for Shadow Chancellor (but all 4 top shadow cabinet positions went to men) but Eagle voted in favour of the renewal of Trident.
Some are seeing this that Corbyn is willing to soften is stance on Trident- which might help ease some wounds in the Parliamentary Party, but most of those 250,000 new members who signed up to vote, voted for Corbyn, and they did so based on all that townhall politics he has been doing in his campaigning, where he was clearly anti-Trident renewal. I dont see those folks being too happy if he backs down as soon as he gets in power. And its an open goal for the SNP against Scottish Labour.

by malickfan Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:53 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA."
He added: "Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands we now have a peace process."
.

I suppose you could argue that is partially true to some extent, and I can recognize some of the grievances but speaking as some one who lost a relative (indirectly) in the Troubles (my great uncle was serving in Northern Ireland and was shot on patrol by a sniper, when they got him into the operating theatre they found tumours, I'm not entirely sure whether he died of the cancer and/or a combination of his injuries, and although he passed away long before I was born...this makes me rather uncomfortable...)

I can see why Corbyn could be a good thing for Labour in bringing them closer to its routes, but he just seems to much of a socialist for Modern day England...I can't see his thoughts on immigration going down too well...

by malickfan Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:54 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

"Brian, either this is the making of us in Scotland. (Long pause) Or, alternatively, we're completely fucked."

Well in fairness Scottish labour seem pretty fucked already...

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:32 pm

I suppose you could argue that is partially true to some extent- Malick

Well yes it is, thats why Sein Fein now sit in the NI Assembly (for now) but its doing and saying the things Corbyn has publicly and with complete insensitivity to those who have lost lives and their relatives I take issue with, not to mention the wrong gesture, the wrong words at just the wrong time can have very real, dire consequences in NI. Its not the time or place for student leftist stunts.

'Well in fairness Scottish labour seem pretty fucked already...'

That also is true, either Corbyn turns their fortunes round or finally sinks them- the Scottish Leader was not a Corbyn supporter however, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:12 pm

some of Corbyns pet issues I really like, and others I think are borderline loonytoones.

1. end austerity. good
2. quantitive easing. printing money ending poverty. good
3. ditch trident. no fucking way
4. united Ireland. pointless
5. max national wage. less fat cats is always good
6. compulsory musical instruments. er and free baggy geography teacher jumpers
7. banning free schools. good no more cults and religious nutter schools
8. boycott Israel. good about fucking time someone did.
9. re nationalise railways. good the price of tickets is scandalous.
10. talk to militants ie Hamas. loonytunes par excellance. we should keep our nose out.
11. nationalise energy. that ship has sailed.
12. coalmines. ditto.
13. leave NATO. barking off the map mad.
14. right to buy. meh.
15. joint sovereignty with Argentina over Faulklands. insult to intelligence and Faulklanders.

by azriel Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:09 pm

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:23 pm

1. end austerity. good
Not so sure about how he plans to make that happen. He wants to increase tax on personal wealth and corporate as well as capping wages for top earners- all of that sounds to me like such people will go elsewhere and we will get 0 tax from them- and how does a right to buy in a private let work? I have a private let but I wouldn't think it fair if after x amount of time I automatically have the legal right to buy the flat, even if my landlord doesn't want to sell. And based presumably on the model of right to buy in social housing scheme, meaning the longer I have lived there the cheaper my landlord has to sell it to me for-its unworkable nonsense! Why would anyone let property at all? And if he increases corporation tax to 60% the SNP who have been after it being devolved for ages will get control of Scottish levels and undercut the rest of the UK for inward investment- good for us shit for everyone else.
2. quantitive easing. printing money ending poverty. good
Crazy more like- this is simple stuff- print more money inflation increases the money is worth less. Its obvious- if there are 10 coins in the country and I have 1 of them its worth a lot, if there are 10 billion coins its worth next to nothing.
3. ditch trident. no fucking way
Good idea all for this one, spend the money on conventional forces we badly need- we are a maritime nation with oilfields and no surface response craft, and also spend a lot more on verteran care. The remainder, and there would be a hefty remainder can go into other services like NHS.
4. united Ireland. pointless
Not our business any more- they have a devolved parliament to thrash this out in democratically. The UK governments job should be to accommodate and oversee the implementation of treaty agreements, thats it.
5. max national wage. less fat cats is always good
And then companies cannot attract the best or brightest who will be able to get higher pay for their services elsewhere.This will hit high tech industries like biocapturing, medical research and new energy research just as much as fat cat bankers
6. compulsory musical instruments. er and free baggy geography teacher jumpers
7. banning free schools. good no more cults and religious nutter schools
I am not a fan of free schoiols, but only a small percent are religious- most of those he would be closing are schools set up and run by parent groups or small local communities.
8. boycott Israel. good about fucking time someone did.
9. re nationalise railways. good the price of tickets is scandalous.
10. talk to militants ie Hamas. loonytunes par excellance. we should keep our nose out.
You have to talk to them or it will never end, same as it was in Ireland. But Id be gobsmacked if this had not being going on unofficially beind the scenes for years already
11. nationalise energy. that ship has sailed.
Agreed
12. coalmines. ditto.
13. leave NATO. barking off the map mad.
14. right to buy. meh.
see my reply to point 1
15. joint sovereignty with Argentina over Faulklands. insult to intelligence and Faulklanders.

by halfwise Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:31 pm

You're sounding like an business conservative there, Petty.

I think all products should come with a label that lists max/min salary ratio, and let the market sort it out.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:38 pm

Nah Im definitely a left of centre type Halfy- just not insane. You have to be practical and following the advice of Gandalf do the best you can,for the best possible outcome with what you've been given. You have to come up with policies which are practical in the actual world as it is, not as you wish it was.
I like a lot of Corbyn basic leanings, but a lotof it just seems Alice in Wonderland politics, and details are very short and the rhetoric very loud- the proof will be in the pudding of course in how Labour conduct and present themselves and their new policies over the coming weeks- right now there is a lot if uncertainty, even over policies like Trident renewal where you might think with Corbyn, lifelong CND member, would have a firm policy.

Take his taxes on the rich- thats fine, increase the top rate of tax, or cap wages at the upper limits, or increase corporation tax- hitting the wealthy and job creators with all three at once will just scare the horses and they will bolt.
Any one of them properly implemented would be a good start- all three is overkill. And risks leaving us with a lower tax take and less jobs.

by halfwise Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:40 pm

It's kind of like New York City finally getting a lefty mayor, which you think would fit in with the politics here - until he starts talking about soaking the rich. Then everyone realizes "wait a minute: the rich are what makes NYC worth living in." And now people want him to tone the hell down.

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:49 pm

the right to buy on private lettings is madness. who in their right mind is going to let their house on that basis? Shrugging

by Eldorion Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:01 am

At first blush I want to like Corbyn but the more I learn more about him the less I think he's suited for the role of party leader. Labour is not a protest party, it's supposed to be seriously contending to establish a government. The discussion a page or two ago about Corbyn and McDonnell's comments on the IRA is illustrative of this. I don't necessarily disagree with them on that, but what they said and how they said it is not really appropriate for the leader of the UK (or an aspiring leader). And when you come to still ongoing issues like the Falklands, the thought of having someone with this way of thinking in power becomes genuinely worrying.

The Falklands thing ties into another issue I have with leftists of Corbyn's variety: the knee-jerk side-taking in international disputes. I understand not being a fan of Western imperialism and not wanting to further the legacy of colonialism. But Argentina is just plain in the wrong about the Falklands and their attempts at framing it as a post-colonial issue are both historically inaccurate and laughably transparent. Or the reflexive anti-NATO stance leading people to defend or otherwise try to excuse recent Russian actions for the sake of point-scoring; the other nations of Eastern Europe be damned.

I think Corbyn's domestic economic policies go way too far too but my beliefs on this front are still undergoing evolution so I have less to say on this issue.

by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:49 pm

Corbyns foreign policy is barking mad. his home policy is like a 70s timewarp. I keep imagining him standing up in the House of commons and shouting 'power to the people!' with his fist in the air. Rolling Eyes

by Mrs Figg Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:02 pm

well after the images on the news I have to say I doubt they will have the balls to have Eurovision Song Contest any time soon. Rolling Eyes

by Mrs Figg Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:54 pm

pig-gate. brilliant! Cameron what a chump. Rolling Eyes

http://time.com/4043311/david-cameron-pig-gate-scandal/

by Eldorion Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:36 pm

Man, Ashcroft really has an axe to grind with Cameron.

I do love the dank memes this has given us though. Laughing

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:55 pm

This guy is just brilliant- puts the journalists to shame-

by bungobaggins Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:20 am

The Abrahamic religions promote violence. At least the texts do. It's up to the followers to decide if they're big enough to move beyond it, and hopefully be big enough to move beyond religion in general.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:40 pm

Putin- his main strength is that in conversation its often very hard to disagree with his analysis-