US General Election 2016

Hey Bungo, I had a similar experience here after the Sandyhook shootings when it seemed all of Forumshire was calling for a gun ban, and I felt like I was standing alone (with occasional help from Truth) trying to explain why some of us in the USA felt firearms were necessary.

It got pretty lonely here for a while, and I know some people got frustrated with me and my arguments ((as I did with theirs )), but nobody was ever really disrespectful to me personally, however much they disagreed with my point of view ((or I did with theirs )).

Anyway, avoiding political discussions among friends is never a bad choice, but still if you feel strongly that your candidate of choice is getting unfair treatment, especially by people from other parts of the world, this is a really good place to have those kinds of discussions. We're all friends here ((except for on the Who thread ))

Um, yeah, that specific tweet wasn't one that I had in mind when I mentioned the white supremacist Twitter thing. Some of the ones that were in the back of my mind were the bogus black crime statistics and the multiple ones he retweeted from @WhiteGenocideTM, where the name alone should be a big warning sign.

And yeah, it wasn't my intention to "validate" the Hitler comparison and like Petty I really don't see how I did that. It's like people calling Bernie a Communist. It isn't true, but it's merely an exaggeration of real things about their record (albeit a greater exaggeration in the Trump case), rather than a slur that someone picked for no reason other than it sounds bad for the other person.

In any event, I hope that you do not leave the forum for good. Not even hoping that you stay out of political discussions, because I think it's important to have a variety of viewpoints represented, though I understand the frustration that comes with being the lone representative of any idea since I've been in that position myself on other forums.

This is what some business journalists are saying about Trump's campaign strategy. It's safe to assume we'll be seeing a lot more this in the next few years. It wouldn't surprise me if Trump figures out a way to license the model.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/273028

Trump Used Twitter, Slammed Rosie O'Donnell and More for an 1,800-Percent Return on Paid Media

Donald Trump, love him or hate him, is a sensation in the U.S. right now. He launched his campaign on his own and was almost immediately written off by the Republican establishment and most pundits.

But Trump used some clever, although controversial, strategies to gain free public relations and an incredible amount of face time on the major television networks to climb from an initial 4 percent to a leading 35 percent in the polls.

MediaQuant, as reported in the New York Times, estimates the value of the free media Trump has enjoyed so far at approximately $1.9 billion. For a candidate that only spent 10 million of his own money on paid media, he’s getting an incredible return on investment that should grab the attention of every marketing firm in the country.

For businesses -- and especially startups -- there’s a huge lesson to be learned. Trump’s approach to media is like Steve Jobs’ techniques on steroids. Where Jobs gained influence in the media through personal relationships and well-produced “Keynotes," Trump uses something Jobs didn’t have in his arsenal: social media and inflammatory rhetoric.

Then the article gives a recipe for how to adapt the model to other marketing.  It's going to be interesting to see where this goes. It's probably going to get loud

{{{{"Buy our fucking peas or the Mexican kid gets it!"

Trump Vegetables.}}}

Killjoys! What could possibly go wrong?

Secret Service says 'no' to guns at Republican convention

The U.S. Secret Service will not allow people to carry guns into the July Republican National Convention in Cleveland, quashing the hopes of more than 45,000 people who have signed a petition saying attendees should be allowed to bring firearms.

The Secret Service said on Monday it has the authority to preclude guns from sites visited by the people it protects such as U.S. presidential candidates, presidents and former presidents.

"Only authorized law enforcement personnel working in conjunction with the Secret Service for a particular event may carry a firearm inside of the protected site," agency spokesman Robert Hoback said in a statement.

"Individuals determined to be carrying firearms will not be allowed past a predetermined outer perimeter checkpoint, regardless of whether they possess a ticket to the event," he said.

A petition on change.org called for firearms to be allowed into the Quicken Loans Arena during the convention in Ohio, a state that allows guns to be carried openly in public. It had drawn 45,811 supporters by Monday afternoon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-guns-idUSKCN0WU1PE

I have to wonder, if the Secret Service did not step in, if the Republicans would have literally 'stuck to their guns' and allowed anyone visiting to bring a gun. A good test of whether they really believe everyone's safer if everyone has a gun. I'd just like to know.

Ultra populist, racist, sexist, believes in water boarding and deliberately bombing women and children. The comparisons with Hitler are reasonably apt. In America's strong democracy, of course, Trump could never follow through with all his talk... could he? If some or none of the above is true, anyone here is welcome to dissect and refute at will.

As to Hilary - or any other candidate - if a negative opinion or observation is true, or at least reasonably defendable as being possibly true, then this is the place to make your opinion or observations known. Majority and Minority voices are always welcome here.

halfwise wrote:I have to wonder, if the Secret Service did not step in, if the Republicans would have literally 'stuck to their guns' and allowed anyone visiting to bring a gun.  A good test of whether they really believe everyone's safer if everyone has a gun.  I'd just like to know.

The whole concept is rather horrifying. What if someone, believing Trump is Hitler, sneaks in and bumps him off? Of course, I assume Trump will be wearing his Stetson and six shooter.. With Trump, I guess he'll be toting two six shooters, and fairly burning to back shoot from both hips...

Orwell wrote:
The whole concept is rather horrifying.

And yet I find I can't tear my eyes away.

Reminds me of Mutually Assured Destruction: logically it's perfectly sound ... until all hell breaks loose.

A Republican shoot out... and any Republican who refuses to attend under such circumstances might be a reasonable Republican to vote for...

We'll see what nominating procedures the Rules Committee for the convention decide on. Maybe the nominee will be the last man standing.

{{{been wtching Trump of late- in fact I watched an entire town hall he held- first 15 minutes was him boastiunbg about his poll numbers, next fifteen were a demolition of 'lying Cruz' then five minutes on 'policy' which was just a repetition of slogans- Make America great again- everyone else has smarter leaders than the US who take advantage- bringing jobs back, building wall and making Mexico pay- and then he finished with 10 ten minutes defending his campaign manager and bad mouthing the woman who made the complaint.

Thing is though- completely pointless as the town hall was, I have noticed that when Trump screws up and gets pulled up on it, his first instinct is to lie about it to make it seem less serious, or not his fault.
The woman reporter charging Trumps campaign manager with minor assault is a good example- Trump has made great play of the fact she changed her story- but ignores the fact so did he- initially he said the woman was not even touched- it was only when the video emerged he had to backtrack that position.
Now the abortion thing- he clearly says that if abortion were illegal, a woman who has one should be punished by the law.
Then he backtracks it- but he does so with a lie- first saying that he was taken out of context and implying he was unfairly edited from a larger discussion, I quote - '"This was a long, convoluted question. This was a long discussion and they just cut it out."

Except that is a lie and he must have known it was when he said it as the interview was in fact broadcast in its entirety with no cuts at all-

'"The town hall interview with Donald Trump was taped in advance and then aired in its entirety. Absolutely no part of the exchange between Trump and Chris Matthews was edited out."- MSNBC

So then Trump had to roll the lie back and now he is saying '"It could be that I misspoke."

You think Trump? And only admitting it after trying to lie and worm your way out of it, and only in the face of overwhelm,ing evidence- why didn't he just say that to start with? Why the lies? Is it because he is such a liar its his first response when he is questioned?

I mean its not the first time he has done it.

And on top of all this he has also seriously upset just about ever major US ally in the world- he has worried Europe by talking of taking the US out of NATO, or at least seriously drawing down US involvement and contributions (does Trump secretly work for Putin by any chance?) and now he thinks everyone should have nukes so the US doesn't have to be the worlds policeman- so Saudi, with its brilliant record on human rights- Trump wants them to have nukes-South Korea, nukes- he wants Jap[an to have nukes! Does he not even know that Japan- as the only country to have suffered at the hands of nukes, has a pacifist constitution which forbids them having nukes?

And again Trump just says stuff, without any sort of information to back it up, its jut hat he thinks his supporters want top hear, so he said ""South Korea is a money machine but they pay us peanuts ... South Korea should pay us very substantially for protecting them."
Before being prmplty corrected by South Korea, the US Ambassador to South Korea.
As former U.S. Ambassador to South Korea Christopher Hill put it, "I don't know what he's talking about but clearly neither does he."

At some point surely even Trump supporters must start to notice that he has no policies, doesn't know what he is talking about when he does attempt to have policies, and lies when he is under pressure to cover himself. Is any of this stuff that sounds good for the leader of the Free World and the most powerful nation on earth? }}

the moment he made those comments about abortion as far as I am concerned he is evil. like a certain mythical snake.

When you expect people to notice logical inconsistencies, it's sort of like you're ignoring the existence of religion in the modern world. Much of human reality is about feelings, not logic. Emotions are totally impermeable to logic, as anyone who's had a torrid infatuation and sworn to never fall for it again for about the 6th time can attest.

{{Politics and religion operate in different spheres- or they should- politics is supposed to be more rational, based on policy, ideas, economics, things more tangible than Gods (ok maybe not economics) it should be open to much closer scrutiny than religion allows for- you arent supposed to 'believe' in politics, democracy isn't a matter of faith. }}}

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