Re: US General Election 2016

by halfwise Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:45 pm

It almost can't happen now that Trump could be president. As statistician Nate Silver point out: when he was supported by 30% of people who identify themselves as republicans, which makes up 40% of the population; that's still only 12% of the population (I'm rounding - at the time Silver got 8 to 9%). If a few months ago he had started to nuance his language he may have been able to pick up crossover votes, but that chance is long gone. I can't see him ever getting more than 20% of the vote no matter what he does over the next year. Even the humour vote is long gone, he's just not funny anymore.

by David H Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:50 pm

halfwise wrote:
As far as I know no soldier has disobeyed orders on this ground,

I know something that has happened. There's a little club of retired generals and admirals who are kept well briefed and serve as a brain trust. Since they're retired, they can say things a sitting officer wouldn't dare. When they've believed that an administration's policies are not supportable, they've occasionally sent a letter to the president signed by the whole group. A president who receives such a letter would be wise to think carefully if he wants to retain the good will of his military.

by halfwise Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:17 pm

That's a good thing to have. From my experience the professional military actually have a very nuanced view of the world.

by David H Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:01 pm

I always enjoy Michael Moore's take on things. Smile

Michael Moore wrote:

Today I went & stood in front of Trump Tower & held a sign until the police came. Then I went home & wrote Donald a letter. Here it is:

Dear Donald Trump:

You may remember (you do, after all, have a "perfect memory!"), that we met back in November of 1998 in the green room of a talk show where we were both scheduled to appear one afternoon. But just before going on, I was pulled aside by a producer from the show who said that you were "nervous" about being on the set with me. She said you didn't want to be "ripped apart" and you wanted to be reassured I wouldn't "go after you."

"Does he think I'm going to tackle him and put him in a choke hold?" I asked, bewildered.

"No," the producer replied, "he just seems all jittery about you."

"Huh. I've never met the guy. There's no reason for him to be scared," I said. "I really don't know much about him other than he seems to like his name on stuff. I'll talk to him if you want me to."

And so, as you may remember, I did. I went up and introduced myself to you. "The producer says you're worried I might say or do something to you during the show. Hey, no offense, but I barely know who you are. I'm from Michigan. Please don't worry -- we're gonna get along just fine!"

You seemed relieved, then leaned in and said to me, "I just didn't want any trouble out there and I just wanted to make sure that, you know, you and I got along. That you weren't going to pick on me for something ridiculous."

"Pick on" you? I thought, where are we, in 3rd grade? I was struck by how you, a self-described tough guy from Queens, seemed like such a fraidey-cat.

You and I went on to do the show. Nothing untoward happened between us. I didn't pull on your hair, didn't put gum on your seat. "What a wuss," was all I remember thinking as I left the set.

And now, here we are in 2015 and, like many other angry white guys, you are frightened by a bogeyman who is out to get you. That bogeyman, in your mind, are all Muslims. Not just the ones who have killed, but ALL MUSLIMS.

Fortunately, Donald, you and your supporters no longer look like what America actually is today. We are not a country of angry white guys. Here's a statistic that is going to make your hair spin: Eighty-one percent of the electorate who will pick the president next year are either female, people of color, or young people between the ages of 18 and 35. In other words, not you. And not the people who want you leading their country.

So, in desperation and insanity, you call for a ban on all Muslims entering this country. I was raised to believe that we are all each other's brother and sister, regardless of race, creed or color. That means if you want to ban Muslims, you are first going to have to ban me. And everyone else.

We are all Muslim.

Just as we are all Mexican, we are all Catholic and Jewish and white and black and every shade in between. We are all children of God (or nature or whatever you believe in), part of the human family, and nothing you say or do can change that fact one iota. If you don't like living by these American rules, then you need to go to the time-out room in any one of your Towers, sit there, and think about what you've said.

And then leave the rest of us alone so we can elect a real president who is both compassionate and strong -- at least strong enough not to be all whiny and scared of some guy in a ballcap from Michigan sitting next to him on a talk show couch. You're not so tough, Donny, and I'm glad I got to see the real you up close and personal all those years ago.

We are all Muslim. Deal with it.

All my best,
Michael Moore

P.S. I'm asking everyone who reads this letter to go here (http://michaelmoore.com/weareallmuslim), and sign the following statement: "WE ARE ALL MUSLIM" -- and then post a photo of yourself holding a homemade sign saying "WE ARE ALL MUSLIM" on Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram using the hashtag ‪#‎WeAreAllMuslim‬. I will post all the photos on my site and send them to you, Mr. Trump. Feel free to join us.

P.P.S. - To sign my statement for #WeAreAllMuslim, go here on my website: http://michaelmoore.com/weareallmuslim

by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:24 pm

I admire his solidarity with a minority who has been wrongly targeted as the bogeyman. But that placard sucks. I cant identify with repressive theocracy, in no way shape or form.

by David H Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:38 pm

I don't think Moore identifies with any "-ocracies". He's as populist as they come. If we were to challenge him on the point, I think he'd say that Muslim people shouldn't bear the blame for the governments that oppress them, anymore than anybody else.

by halfwise Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:08 pm

At least one Muslim was offended at Michael Moore's act, saying it belittles muslims by backhandedly suggesting that it takes a white person to justify their plight.

Another guy says Donald Trump is the best thing to happen to Muslim Americans, because they are finally feeling support in the backlash.

It may have been the same guy, I can't find the article(s) now.

by David H Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:22 pm

Whatever you may think of Moore or Trump, wouldn't it be great theater to get the two of them on the same stage again? Twisted Evil

by halfwise Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:14 am

I'd pay tickets for that!

I think Moore is a great film maker who is ingenius at poking fun and withering critiques at his targets, but I wouldn't trust him as a documentarian.

by halfwise Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:26 pm

British Parliament to debate barring Donald Trump from Britain. I really hope they do.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uk-parliament-actually-going-debate-213453782.html

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:32 pm

I doubt they will- the petition idea is good in theory but has proved less than useful in practise- not a single petition that has qualified for debate has gone any further than being debated then forgotten about.

In general I am opposed to banning people for what they say- I think its better to expose what Trump says to the ridicule it deserves through having a better argument than him.

However in this case I think there has to be an element of fair play in the law- this government has banned people already under 'hate speech' laws for saying less and with nothing like Trumps authority of position or reach.
So on the grounds if you have a law which bans people entry on the basis of hate speech then that law has to apply equally to everyone or its no law at all.

by David H Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:40 pm

Donald's mom is from Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis. I suspect that's where he got his trademarked crabbit. Send him back, I say! Twisted Evil

by Eldorion Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:26 am

How could we not have recognized that untameable red hair as anything but Caledonian?

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:55 am

Trump is sayng if he is banned from the UK he will pull all investments here, including in Scotland where he claims to be spending millions (But so far only on court cases which have delayed a major scientific project and wind farm production providing jobs for thousands and jeopardising the whole project- so so far he has mainly shat on the little guy here whilst promising everything- America might want to bear that in mind!).

If it were me and he gets banned and pulls his investment- Id take it a step further- Id ban his companies too and have the Scottish Government repossess the land and gold courses he bought, then sell them on to an appropriate private company bidder and return the profits to the public purse.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:22 am

Ok just watched Sarah Palin on stage with Trump- itself like a surreal nightmare- but I had no idea Trump is the Master of the dill. I didn't even know he liked herbs!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/19/sarah-palin-endorses-donald-trumps-presidential-bid.html?intcmp=hpbt2

by halfwise Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:17 am

What's funny is that I find Ted Cruz's statement that he's a big fan of Sarah Palin to be even scarier than all his political positions.

But I hope Trump chooses to run with Sarah Palin as vice president if he gets nominated. That would be the icing on the cake.

by Eldorion Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:55 am

Colbert channeling a bit of that old magic.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:21 pm

The link I pout up seems to lead to a short press report on it, in which they leave out all the stupid (almost everything she says in other words) originally it was the whole thing- the whole thing is worth a watch as she is insane, and at a podium, of a real candidate for President of America and the Free World (though as far as I can tell form Trump's point of view the Free World consists of America, as the rest of us are either crazy Muslims or socialists and communists, or Mexican and so not free - and some of whom should be walled off from America).

This election is real isn't it? - its not like a huge publicity stunt for something? Or a weird global hallucination? Because you do realise the rest of the world is looking in on this like America has finally completely lost its mind and the only thing we cant decide, is whether to piss ourselves with laughter at you, or be very afraid of result- whoever wins, because there's a lot of very angry people on the right been riled up and led to believe that they have to 'take their country back'- which is fine, if you had been invaded, but they are talking about fellow Americans that they want to take it back from- and I think a fringe of that hard right will get fired up if Hilary wins, and there will be blood on the streets sometime thereafter- there is a reason the professional political class has learned over the years not to take the seemingly easy route to votes Trump is- its because of the consequences).

by Eldorion Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:21 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Because you do realise the rest of the world is looking in on this like America has finally completely lost its mind and the only thing we cant decide, is whether to piss ourselves with laughter at you, or be very afraid of result

You said the same thing about Romney last time though. Wink

We had to up the ante if we wanted to keep impressing you lot!

The Trump campaign's overtures to/rhetorical connections with white nationalists are definitely worrying but I don't think his supporters are going to rise up en masse anymore than UKIP's did.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:59 pm

UKIPs supporters aren't armed.

by **Amarië** Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:24 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Because you do realise the rest of the world is looking in on this like America has finally completely lost its mind and the only thing we cant decide, is whether to piss ourselves with laughter at you, or be very afraid of result

You said the same thing about Romney last time though. We had to up the ante if we wanted to keep impressing you lot! (...)

I wanted to chuckle at that, but... You do realize that Petty is not kidding?

by Eldorion Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm

I figured he wasn't. There's a lot of people in the US too who were initially amused but are now alternately appalled and incredulous about Trump's campaign. Mainly on the left but there are quite a few conservatives desperately trying to figure out how to stop Trump from getting the Republican nomination. Though some of them are torn because they dislike Cruz just as much.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:37 pm

No I wasn't kidding- nor am I expecting civil war to break out after the election. But if the Dems win I can forsee sadly an increase in attacks on say Planned Parenthood offices, gay rights parades, anything Muslim and more incidents like the recent one with the militia occupying that farm against the Federal Government.

You know what it all reminds me off, and not in a good way, in the 60's and 70's there were a spate of books and films which dealt with theme of reality as entertainment in some fashion, and nearly also it was a dystopian vision of the future, predicting reality tv.
This is election is seeing America consumed by its own consumerism. Now your political system is just another reality tv show. And when you stop and think about that its more twisted and dystopian than many of those classic sci-fi books and films ever were.

by David H Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:40 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: But if the Dems win I can forsee sadly an increase in attacks on say Planned Parenthood offices, gay rights parades, anything Muslim and more incidents like the recent one with the militia occupying that farm against the Federal Government.

Actually if the Democrats win, (and it would be their own fault if they don't) I can foresee just the opposite. It's really only when there are no nonviolent outlets for being heard that the we see violent protests. It works a lot like sports. Everybody gets to root for their own home team during the election season. If they win they feel validated, but if they lose there's still a catharsis, they through a few beer bottles and then go back to grumbling in the bars till the next season. It's really a very healthy outlet for frustration. Nod

I can say more about the occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge if you like. If anything they're loosing solidarity with farmers and ranchers rather than gaining. It's a bit pathetic really, but the media keeps banging the revolution gong because it makes good copy.

by Music of the Ainur Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:07 pm

I haven't seen this nice story refered to here that I linked below my rant.. This happened the day of her endorsing trump.
Maybe this ' model christian citizen and mother' should be trying to help her mentally troubled family out instead of following trump around giving him her help.

Of course it's all obamas fault that her children are violent psychos.
Her son isn't the only one of her off spring with issues...
" This was not Track Palin's first brush with the law. Back in 2014 he was involved in a wild brawl at a house party in Anchorage, during which his sister Bristol allegedly punched the host repeatedly in the face. No arrests were made and no charges were filed. "

Makes me proud to be an American. =(

Every election I'm appalled and confused that we have to choose berween two bad choices. Hard to believe the choices offered us are the best of the best. =(

Omg! This time it is the worst ever. Both choices scare the shist out of me Hillary and trump for president. Is this really happening?

I apologize to the world in advance no matter the outcome.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/track-palin-sarah-palin-adult-son-arrested-alaska-article-1.2502319

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/veterans-sarah-palins-ptsd_us_56a10331e4b0404eb8f0726b