Re: US General Election 2016

by bungobaggins Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:43 pm

I just don't see a point in voting at all.

by David H Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:51 pm

I've voted in 9 presidential elections, and I've never voted for either a Democrat or Republican for similar reasons. I live in a state that always goes Democratic in presidential elections, so my solitary little vote isn't going to change the balance either way.

Instead I've always voted for a minor party presidential candidate. It's fun to research them, and a single vote can help them significantly. It's a protest vote, but it's more than that. The policy makers look at the active independent voters much more carefully when they're making decisions, hoping to swing us one way or the other.

Indy voters are viewed as leading indicators of voting trends, and so I figure my vote has a little more influence. Smile

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:20 pm

Listening to the rhetoric coming from the Republican candidates on Syrian refugees and a host of other stuff I think if any of them become President you should all stop saying "God Bless America" and change it to "God Help America!"

by bungobaggins Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:01 pm

by David H Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:08 am

The Trump story keeps getting better ! http://news.yahoo.com/trump-lawyer-warns-republicans-super-pac-attack-ads-140728312.html

Trump lawyer Michael Cohen told CNN that if Republican donors backing different presidential candidates come together for an anti-Trump advertising campaign, it would be a "bad, bad decision."

The Super PAC planning the attack is New Day for America, which is supporting Ohio Governor John Kasich's presidential bid. Its spokesman, Matt David, said on Sunday that 10 new donors had pledged money since Thursday when Politico reported the group's plans to attack Trump in New Hampshire.

Trump signed a pledge to run as a Republican in the 2016 presidential election, but Cohen indicated the agreement would be invalid if Republicans target the billionaire real estate mogul.

"If they treat him fairly, he will honor the pledge because he's an honorable guy. If they break that agreement with him, as they say 'woe be on them,'" Cohen told CNN.

The Republican National Committee said it had no role in Super PAC decisions and would remain neutral in the presidential nominating process.

If Trump goes independent he'll take a lot of GOP votes with him, splitting the party and virtually guaranteeing Hillery the win. On the other hand if you're Jeb Bush, getting Trump completely out of the Republican primaries may be the only change you have left. :facepalm:

by halfwise Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:25 pm

bungobaggins wrote:

In the future I see a fracturing of the democrats into a hard left wing party, and more moderate centrists.

I don't see much evidence of a hard left wing party. Bernie Sanders may be getting traction, but people aren't being attracted to him because he's socialist; it's more that he seems real in contrast to the fabricated Hillary-monster. Maybe I haven't been listening, but I don't recall him making any statements that seem targeted to rabble raise the far left, most of whom seem to be hold-overs from the 70's era.

by Eldorion Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:03 pm

Bernie's not much of a socialist anyway. He'd be considered a social democrat in Europe, and his policy positions are not as far removed from Hillary as they're often portrayed. I'm still probably going to vote for him but for some reason he seems intent on pretending to be more left-wing than he really is, even though that's probably hurting his electability. Although when he first got in the race I was pretty sure he wasn't running to win but just to get his ideas in the discussion and try to drag Hillary more to the left, and if that was the case, then he's been fairly successful.

by David H Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:16 pm

Eldorion wrote: Although when he first got in the race I was pretty sure he wasn't running to win but just to get his ideas in the discussion and try to drag Hillary more to the left, and if that was the case, then he's been fairly successful.

That's how I read his campaign too, and I think he's been amazingly successful, not only with getting the nation talking about some third-rail subjects and with giving Hillary some cover to shift a bit more liberal, but in actually building a nationwide grassroots following! Who'd have guessed? His campaign must be buying the same brand of batteries as Trump and Carson. Shocked

But deep down I think Bernie's still an Independent. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if he were running an Indy campaign.

by Eldorion Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:20 am

I suspect Bernie will go back to being an independent once the primary is over, though it's worth noting that he already caucused with the Democrats in the Senate before this election.

by **Orwell** Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:41 pm

Someone close to me just loves Donald Trump. I despair...

by bungobaggins Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:44 pm

by Eldorion Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:39 am

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:21 pm

Um, Trump, yeah, finally gone mad or showing his true colours- as some sort of Mussolini lite?

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:24 pm

Talking Trump he has some Scottish connections- he owns one of thel argest golfing resorts here and has had honours bestowed by various groups- but today First Minister Sturgeon stripped him of a business title awarded to him under Labour, saying "recent remarks have shown he is no longer fit to be a business ambassador for Scotland".

He has also been stripped of an honorary degree, awarded by the University of Aberdeen in 2010.

by David H Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:34 pm

Trump

No, he's not mad at all. It's an ancient and well-known political strategy going back to ancient Athens. See "Definition of Demagogue":

Wikipedia wrote:

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek dēmagōgos, dēmos ‘the people’ + agōgos ‘leading’) or rabble-rouser is a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, fears, prejudices, and ignorance of the lower socioeconomic classes in order to gain power and promote political motives. Demagogues usually oppose deliberation and advocate immediate, violent action to address a national crisis; they accuse moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness. Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, nothing stops the people from giving that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:37 pm

So Mussolini-lite then as Mussilini was one of those (and worryingly Mussolini came to power on racism, and trumpeting how popular he was over everyone else- sound familiar?)

by bungobaggins Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:42 pm

Everybody's racist grandpa is running for president.

by David H Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:08 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:So Mussolini-lite then as Mussilini was one of those (and worryingly Mussolini came to power on racism, and trumpeting how popular he was over everyone else- sound familiar?)

Sure! Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, Tojo, Joe McCarthy, he's playing with matches in the same powder keg with those guys. Mad

The scariest thing is that you can't really say he's "lite" yet. Those guys all sounded more or less sane when they started their rants. It all depends on how sustained and powerful the wave of populist discontent they're surfing is. If he can tap into enough anger, I don't think there's any reason why Trump couldn't join the ranks of the big boys. pale

(I have more faith in the American voters than to worry too much about that, but still you can't be too careful. The fact that he's gotten this far points to a bigger problem...)

by Mrs Figg Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:12 pm

why doesn't he go the whole hog and ask for internment camps. who knows maybe that could happen again one day. if Le Penn gets to be president of France it probably will sooner rather than later.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:14 pm

He has already used the precedent of the camps set up after Pearl Harbour to put American-Japanese in as a way it could be done.

by Mrs Figg Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:17 pm

so will there be two camps one for Mehicans and one for Muslims? I would like a camp for SNP voters, fucking trouble makers

by David H Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:28 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:He has already used the precedent of the camps set up after Pearl Harbour to put American-Japanese in as a way it could be done.

... cleverly alienating both Muslim-Americans and Asian-Americans in one stroke! Rolling Eyes

by halfwise Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:48 am

Even if you can't watch the video, hopefully you can appreciate the clever jabs at Trump.

http://mashable.com/2015/12/09/daily-show-trump-white-isis/

by Bluebottle Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:16 am

Here, the solution to all your problems. Smile

(Unless you luck out and elect trump anyway, that is. Shocked

)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

by chris63 Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:59 am