script writing for the Hobbit...

azriel wrote:There is conversation between Thorin & Roac that peejers didnt include ? And Bard could understand bird speech from a thrush ? Shame peejers didnt make it clear that Bard was more noble than we thought & not just some grimey fisherman or barrel runner ?

Sinister71 wrote:Figured I would create a post to update everyone on it in here, instead of hijacking other threads. Things are going along well. I am to the mountain, on my first Draft of it.Nice! I was wondering how you were getting along with it
I did keep a few of Jackson's more logical choices, and change a few things to make a bit more sense in places. The dwarfs rescue Bilbo together from the trolls like Jackson's version, they also start the quest with weapons and gearwas this a pacing cut, or just to make them seem less...well, idiotic? I always felt personally you could have three or four captured in a row, but it does drag on in in the book a bit, Jackson's version wasn't really an improvement i.m.o but i can see his/your reasons for changing things. I kept Jackson's idea of Thorin arriving later than everyone elseThis is probably a good idea as well, are you including a similar idea of Jackson's 'Meeting of the Dwaven Tribal Chiefs' off screen, or is it just to establish a litle dignity/Drama for Thorin early on? I could see this working, in my Head Canon Thorin was both feared and revered by the other Dwarves so keeping him at a distance from the others could play into his arrogance/age rather well. Lastly I kept the spiders voices associated with Bilbo wearing the ringAnother additon by Jackson I have no problem with, though I still would have loved to see the Attercop rhyme..., however it is not eluded to the ring Bilbo finding having any association with Sauron or the one ringGood!. It's a mere trinket. But other than those few things much different. First off NO TaurieGood!...I presume you will make some attempt to put in a few certainty females characters to spice things up though?l. Then I have Thror with a very small group of dwarfs entering Moria when he is killed. All off screenWhy? I get that it is Bilbo's story, and dosen't add that much to the Backstory, but it would do any harm I wouldn't have thought. My own opinion-it could work quite well in the Erebor scenes-i.e have a few flashbacks interspersed throught the film of Thror and Thrain, increasing in frequency the further along Thorin gets to the Mountain-This was what I imagined when Jackson made those (apparently pointless) comments of Father and Son parallels in DOS, I never wanted Thorin to become the lead character, but his backstory is quite interesting and after Bilbo completes his major character arc, I always thought it wouldn't do any harm to shift a little emphasis to Thorin-the catalyst for the BOTFA afterall other than his head being tossed out the door, as Azog emerges. I included Azog's head on a spike.Dain is shown early on killing AzogThank god! I sorta understand why Jackson wanted a last minute 'bad ass cameo warrior saves the day' character, but Dain has a a great backstory and deserves more screentime, with Bolg nearby. I did want their being kin to be evident and reason for Bold to want revengeMakes more sense than PJ's version.... The contract is shown but Bilbo gives it back to Thorin, when he declines. Gandalf shows up next morning advising Bilbo he is late and proceeds to nudge him out the door, no backpack or walking stickGood, Bilbo leaving on his own accord never sat right with me, his character arc grows out of both choice and necessity...to be honest Gandalf is too cuddly for my liking in Jackson's films, I wanted to see more of him pulling the strings and being a dick in the Hobbit, Bilbo should start out on the wrong foot imo. Bilbo is given a hood and cloak much too large for himAlways loved this in the book I'll take gentle humour and whinsy over snot and burp gags any day.... Bolg does show up right after goblin town as the bad guy chasing the dwarfs up the trees. There is no connection between Bolg and the necromancerThere dosen't need to be one . Beorn is strictly human looking, and his introduction is the next morning similar to the EE edition but the night before the dwarfs are fleeing something unseen. Could be an animal could be orcs, its unknown all they know is something is after them and the came across what appears to be an empty cottage and barricade themselves insideNice idea, ramps up the tension. I also included Beorn calling Bilbo "a little bunny" and commenting on him getting fat again So are you picturing basically a enchanted Mountain Man?.No kids for Bard and he is a bit older than the Bard in the filmsGood, frankly everyone in the films seems too young for my liking... Bard the Grim afterall, Bilbo goes into Smaugs lair twice,  the first trip he brings a cup back out. Balin actually follows Bilbo almost to the bottom but chickens out last minuteHmm...that could work but it might make the Dwarves seem a bit well d*ckish rather late in the narrative, and goes against audience expectation, my own headcanon (kinda backed up by th text) was that Balin was the wisest and most respectful of the Dwarves he wouldn't chicken out of fight out of fear, perhaps out of age or experience 'Sorry Mr Baggins My old Bones have seen too much Dragon Fire, I'd only be a hindrance' etc. Legolas is in Mirkwood but just briefly What is his role? Killing Spiders? Head of the Guard? Is he named? I mentioned this a while ago when you first mooted the idea, but it would be kinda cool to see him in a few 'Hero' shots and generic dialgoue, it's only when we get to a (hypothetical-you aren't writing it obviously) LOTR follow up that we see flashbacks from a new perspective . The necromancer I have written in much darker and ambiguous. Only references to Sauron are small and visual only.  And there's none of this crap about the last light being the moonlightThat was utterly stupid wasn't it?. The thrush is in, as are Roac and Carc . I haven't gotten to the battle yet, but there will be no Dune worms, or Legolas being super human or elven if you like. Smaug goes to the side of the mountain to look for the dwarfs and destroys the door trapping them all insideIs there any attempt at expanding this into a Battle? Perhaps they could fire a few Arrows (picked up at Laketown?) at Smaug...why would Smaug fly off to Laketown knowing that he had sealed the Dwarves in with the treasure he prized so highly? (That's a plot hole in the book as well I guess) it's kinda silly from a Dramatic point of view I guess (unless you establish Smaug's rage and greed very clearly in the conversation with Bilbo, so it dosen't seem quite as spur of the moment) . Laketown's destiny is unknown to the dwarfs until Bard and Thranduil approach about restitution for its destruction. No white gems nonsense either. Thranduil is kind enough to the dwarfs but imprisons them similar to the book. Haven't decided about the Arkenstone yet, I feel I need to make it important Yeah probably A good idea...perhaps substitute the Elven Necklace with it, and make it part of the Elf/Dwavr feud?but still figuring it out.

It's a work in progress right now

Sinister71 wrote:I have no animals talkingWhy not? You have talking trolls and Dragons after all, I don't think a Thrush etc would be much different however they do make an appearance in Beorn's home. Making their natural noises and sounds and Beorn answers back twice in common tongue. And they are pretty much like normal animals. Although I did substitute dogs and such for creatures who can use their hands, like raccoonsAren't racoons native to just North America? Not very European...sounda kinda like Looney Tunes to be honest. But Beorn mainly serves his guests That is probaly a good idea, I don't think animal waiters would work very well in a love action film. But I did include rabbits, foxes, raccoons, pigs, goats, and farm type poultry (chickens, ducks, geese) and yes the bees. The Ravens are in, Roac and Carc both speak. I kind of used parots as my model for them, just taking it to the next level giving them intelligence instead of just mimickingThat would work quite well I think, the hard part would be to make them not sound a bit corny...Roac's age always made it easier for me, I got a sense of mystery/magic tied in with his lienage...random suggestion, maybe only Thorin/Dain/Bard can understand them, sorta like a private breed for Kings only, maybe add a few scenes of Thorin sending messages with Roac to Dain-Bilbo gets the wrong end of the stick and things Thorin's Dragon Sickness is coming into play, that way when Thorin dies, his remdemption could be mirrored by Bilbo's?. My Bard is the leader of the Lake town militia, is grim but honest. I've kind of made him someone who just wants to be left alone but knows his duty and has earned his rankThat's more or less how I would have done it. But it's not one he took lightly. He does carry himself nobly but isn't someone who expects things because of his heritage. He believes a man should be judged by his own merits and deeds. The thrush is just like the book,. I kind of ripped of the 1977 cartoon a bit, by making Bard agitated by the thrush and then being surprised he can understand it. The black arrow speech is in it. So far all the iconic things that are in the book are in my script. Even the talking purse, even though it is reduced to a plain purse in the troll horde , and it's dialog given to one of the trolls. Bilbo gets caught trying to pinch some food for the dwarfs in my version.

One change I don't know if anyone will like is one of the dwarfs is thought dead after escaping the woodland realm. While all the other barrels make it to safety, Bifur's  barrel gets swept into the Rapids and he is last seen going over a waterfall. He is presumed dead. Later he shows up right before the dwarfs leave LaketownHmm...that could be good way to give some of the Tertiar Dwavrs more character, but it would drag out the pace of the film (the Barrels scene almost seemed like more a climax that a mid point to me)...but I don't think there were any real rapids in the book...kinda neagtes the idea of the sending frail wooden barrells down river!. I chose him cause I hated that stupid Axe in his head in the filmsFair enough, though It seems he looses in the BOTFA unharmed .

Like I've said before I am a huge fan of the historical realism, used for the most part in LOTR. I like reality based fantasyThe thing is though, The Hobbit is a whimsical fairytale drawn into the borders of the Historical fantasy of LOTR and Sil, in tone and pace it dosen't entirely match its sequel, nor should it i.m.o). This is still only my first draft though, once it's done I'll proof read it through and make any changes.

Sinister71 wrote:Well I did it for added dramaWhilst a fair enough idea in princicple, it just seems like a Jackson idea-a cheap minor cliffhnager that ultimately leads knowhere , and since he is Bombur and Bofur's kin. I know unnecessary drama. But since he does show up at Laketown  anyways. It's not so bad. And it's kind of a bit of mystery too cause my barrel scene is much shorter than Jackson's and I have lids on. So when it happens we really don't know which dwarf it isGood idea. At least there are no orcs chasing them down the river or the Bombur ninja. The dwarfs exit the barrels, we discover Bifur gone, then dwarfs realize elves are coming and rush back into barrels Then there is also conflict between elves and men because the elves deliver the barrels right to Laketown from the river location where they wash up on shore. One barrel is dropped and Thorin comes tumbling out to give a similar speech to the one in the 77 cartoonIt always amused me Thorin tried to find diginity and respect in the worst of situations.... Plus I kept the line "Thag you very buch" in Laketown (out of interest is your version of BOTFA set in Winter like the timeline in the appendices? Maybe Bilbo develops a cold...).

Yes the dwarfs have proper beards and look like what we would consider dwarfs. I included the colored hood but made them rather earthly tones, that could be made out of natural dyesGood idea, no multi coloured beards I take it?. Something to distinguish them. My Thor in is much older, not quite old man age, but along the lines of Ian McShane age . There is still some black in his hair, but a heck of a lot more Grey that Armitage's  Thorin. Some of the dwarfs are younger, but not young by human standards. Youngest being Kili and Fili with beards about mid chest maybe just a bit less.

I do have Bolg amassing orcs and goblins, (pretty much the same creature, except for size) and preparing for something but it isn't going to be revealed until Gandalf stops the elves men and dwarfs from waring with each other. Again I stole from the other places, and Gandalf comes in with a kind of explosion right in the middle of them, startling them all. Kind of like magic.

So far no Nazgul, no RadagastWill you include him in the Dol Guldor stuff, maybe a quick nameless cameo like Legolas, no bunny sled, no Alfrid, no politics of Laketown, Sauron is never mentioned by name and he is a cloaked dark figure that looks like he might be a ghost, or something dead or dealing with dead things. Scene has lost of mist smoke, and is rather darkly lit. Only visual cues will give hints to the necromancer true identity. The master of Laketown slinks away into the night never seen again, no dragon falling on him. Still plenty of action. My dungeon scene is more cat and mouse than Jackson's. Elves don't know they have escaped but the dwarfs still have to avoid the guard patrols.

halfwise wrote:If you have the dwarves barricade themselves in Beorn's house, it kinda makes Gandalf's story introduction non sensical.  In the EE cut they come out of the house while Beorn is calmly chopping wood, and doesn't know how many there are.  Now why the damn hell would he be all up for calmly listening to a story if he's watching people come out of his house?  

Forest Shepherd wrote:Having the dwarves chased about Middle Earth is a large part of what's wrong with the story as it is presented in the film. Therefore, keeping that pointless chase before Beorn's house is like picking out the moldy apples and putting them in the pie with the good ones.
You only get one suspenseful scene in this part of the story, and that's when the company finds themselves in the midst of the Warg's meeting place in the forest. There is a primeval fear involved here that would work very well on-screen. Are you even going to separate the goblins from the wargs as distinct groups?

Apart from that I don't like the idea of Sauron being in the film at all. But if he must be, then is it appropriate to give him a body-shaped form at all?

Anyway, goodluck on the writing!

P.S.
If Gandalf is going to be showing off a similar "type of explosion thing," then why not have him burst the embers and flames of the Goblin's torches and fires into their midst? It is a crappy kind of wizard that must deafen and knock over his friends in order to hurt their enemies.

ElendilTheShort wrote:If you are doing a fan edit/script rewrite then please, please ,PLEASE, leave in the scene where Kili dies and him and Toeragdoll spend what seems like 5 hours melodramatically staring at each other as he lays dying hung over Bolg's knee like a limp fish. I was so glad Kili's crappy book death was changed to this absolute masterpieceI'm not a fan of Tauriel/Kili, but I do kinda like Kili's death in the film, it's toitally against Tolkien (which came as a massive surprise in a PJ film ) but it was quite brutal and out of the blue, the casual film goging audience seemed very shocked, it's just a shame Thorin's relationsahip with Kili was never expanded on.... When I see this I am eternally grateful that Sir PJ & Cowriters got to do these movies so they could add in enduring gems such as this and all but eliminate trivial useless side characters like BeornAs far as I'm concerned a mildy grumpy hairy bugger with a backstory that leads nowhere who looks like Sonic the Hedgehog and David Bowie had a lovechild isn't Beorn.... I was actually quite annoyed to see Beorn for 5.38 seconds in this film, I had to avert my eyes in disgust at his inclusion as they could have taken that precious screen time and extended the longing looks between the dwarf and elfSure to get longer in the extended edition.... These two have actually replaced Beren and Luthien as my favourite love story included in or based on Tolkiens work. I mean who could not love the whole "it was real love " bullsh.... I mean poetic script writing compared to the sort of poor wordsmithing Tolkien came up with such as  "Beyond his hope she returned to him where he sat in darkness, and long ago in the Hidden Kingdom she laid her hand in his.Hey, Phillpa Boyens took the time to read The Silmarillion, once, 27 years ago so I'm sure she knows what's she's doing, she co-wrote The Lovely Bones after all sarcasm obviously..."

The truth I know is Tolkiens books will be as loved as much 100 years from now as they ever were and the movies will quite rightly be viewed as shit Which ones? Hollywood is sure to milk the crap out of lovingly expand on this franchise as long as they can .

ElendilTheShort wrote:If you are doing a fan edit/script rewrite then please, please ,PLEASE, leave in the scene where Kili dies and him and Toeragdoll spend what seems like 5 hours melodramatically staring at each other as he lays dying hung over Bolg's knee like a limp fish. I was so glad Kili's crappy book death was changed to this absolute masterpiece. When I see this I am eternally grateful that Sir PJ & Cowriters got to do these movies so they could add in enduring gems such as this and all but eliminate trivial useless side characters like Beorn. I was actually quite annoyed to see Beorn for 5.38 seconds in this film, I had to avert my eyes in disgust at his inclusion as they could have taken that precious screen time and extended the longing looks between the dwarf and elf. These two have actually replaced Beren and Luthien as my favourite love story included in or based on Tolkiens work. I mean who could not love the whole "it was real love " bullsh.... I mean poetic script writing compared to the sort of poor wordsmithing Tolkien came up with such as  "Beyond his hope she returned to him where he sat in darkness, and long ago in the Hidden Kingdom she laid her hand in his."

The truth I know is Tolkiens books will be as loved as much 100 years from now as they ever were and the movies will quite rightly be viewed as shit.