Re: Battle of the Five Armies - Extended Edition

by azriel Sat May 02, 2015 12:15 pm

Oooh you big strong Aussie you ! Very Happy

Battle of the Five Armies - Extended Edition - Page 3 Aussie1_zpsvlk8x3bd

by halfwise Sat May 02, 2015 12:46 pm

Eldorion wrote:There was a time when I posted more on TORn than any other forum, though that was because I'd gone into self-imposed exile from the LOTR Plaza, and my activity at TORn sharply declined after I returned to the Plaza.

Thanks for pointing out the Tolkien Plaza. Some interesting topics there, though I don't feel their format is as friendly for reading as this one. It does seem you got the idea for posting ranks from there...

by Mrs Figg Sat May 02, 2015 6:22 pm

theres one Tolkien forum with a black background and white typeface, its like inviting a migraine into your head and saying go on do your worst. Suspect

by Eldorion Sun May 03, 2015 7:49 am

halfwise wrote:Thanks for pointing out the Tolkien Plaza. Some interesting topics there, though I don't feel their format is as friendly for reading as this one. It does seem you got the idea for posting ranks from there...

The Plaza's format has evolved gradually, most drastically when they switched from Web Wiz to vBulletin as their forum software about two years ago, but for the most part they still use the design set up by the site's original founder back in 2002-03. I have lots of fond memories from the Plaza so I like the continuity, though unfortunately a lot of the extra features of the site have been removed over time as stuff has broken down and/or become not worth it to maintain. The site's color scheme and artwork does still change for the individual role-playing forums, but the privately run mini-forums known as "Houses" have gone away, as has the official Plaza Marriage system (your profiles would show up together on the marriage registry page), and the role-playing families have declined over the years. There used to be massive networks of dozens if not hundreds of individuals with complex relationships with each other that would make any Hobbit genealogist's head spin. The whole site has become less active than it once was (it was the biggest Tolkien forum for nearly a decade straight), but the role-playing aspect is still a big part of it which gives the site some of its unique flavor.

(The Lore fora are really the jewel in the Plaza's crown, though. They have an extremely impressive collection of minds, and have hosted numerous professional Tolkien scholars to share their work in the Scholars Forum. The Lorist community has become considerably less strict and, dare I say it, up its own ass over the years, but the high standards of that part of the site made it possible for the level of discourse that emerged to take root, though it came at the cost of friction with other parts of the site and sometimes alienating newcomers. Though I'm biased here since I was an active member of that clique at one time and plenty abrasive in debates at times. Embarassed

)

As for ranks, a lot of forums do that, and while the Plaza had a massive influence on the way I view forums (it being the first one I joined), our original rank system was actually more closely inspired by TORn's. Though I revised it a while back to be a bit more original. The Plaza's use of a point system in parallel to posts and the various role-playing regions (formerly known as Kingdoms) that you can join made their rank system a lot more meaningful, as it conveyed real privileges but couldn't be gamed just by spamming one-liners or real chatty posts. Anyway, thanks for triggering some nostalgia and giving me a reason to post about some happy memories. Razz

Mrs Figg wrote:theres one Tolkien forum with a black background and white typeface, its like inviting a migraine into your head and saying go on do your worst.

You mean Planet Tolkien? Razz

There are actually a few like this that I can think of offhand. Barrow-downs was probably the most prominent, but unfortunately their forum went offline earlier this year.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 03, 2015 6:19 pm

yeah it was Barrow downs. why did it go offline? maybe nobody could stay more than two minutes without a headache.

by Eldorion Sun May 03, 2015 6:40 pm

No idea, the rest of the site stayed up, but the forum was replaced by an error message.

Fake edit: just checked now and the forum is back online for the first time in more than three months. Shrugging

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18877

by malickfan Sun May 03, 2015 7:19 pm

Eldorion wrote:

Fake edit: just checked now and the forum is back online for the first time in more than three months.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18877

I never posted there very much, but it is a great little forum, full of interesting threads. Good to see it rise from the dead!

by Mrs Figg Sun May 03, 2015 10:58 pm

aaarg I went back there and now I have black lines swimming in front of my screen its flipping impossible. Mad

by bungobaggins Thu May 07, 2015 3:53 am

by Sinister71 Thu May 07, 2015 4:01 am

Yeah, The Hobbit failed to save most of the older forums, but activity among all forums (including ones like TORn and us that parlayed The Hobbit trilogy into growth) has sharply declined since BOFA. TORn's BOFA boost extended longer than most but they're seeing drop-offs now as well. It's hard to say when and where activity will stabilize for various forums. January was an atrocious month for us, but March was back up over 100 posts per day. We'll probably settle somewhere in between, at least in the short to medium term. But the fandom in 2014 was already smaller than the fandom in 2003 and the declines started sooner, so I worry about what kind of future awaits Tolkien forums over the next several years.

Would love to be posting more but life has gotten crazy and hecktic here, i'll be back more regularly once things slow down.... as for TORn ... i got nothing. I'm STILL banned LOL first banning got me s lifetime ban, never do anything halfassed

by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 07, 2015 11:25 am

Richard Armitage interview with Yahoo, some interesting quotes-

“I think a lot of people who weren’t necessarily into the genre or Peter’s work probably felt it was too long; in which case I feel like maybe it’s not the right movie for you. The fans loved every single second of it and actually wanted more. When you look at what had to be lost, there was almost too much for three films."

'the fans loved every single second of it?' Guess he hasnt been on here then!

"Peter Jackson’s love of Middle Earth drove him forward and made him want to explore every character and detail because with the technology he developed, why wouldn’t you want to go to Dol Guldur with Gandalf? Why wouldn’t you want to tell that side of the story? I think he knew he was never going to visit Middle Earth again so he wanted to show it in the best way that he could.”

That sounds to be like a veiled wa of saying PJ was more interested in his new toys than anything else. And the focus was not on would Dol Guldur make for a better story if included but, would Dol Guldur make for a good place to show of my new tech?

"We’re going to see a big funeral scene at the end with some pretty emotional speeches by Gandalf. That’s something I’m looking forward to. I know that when the decision was made to take that out of the final movie was made there was a little scene added where you see the dwarves on the waterfall and they kneel around the dead body. That was an addition because the funeral was cut. I imagine in the Extended Edition they’ll both be in."

'emotional speeches by Gandalf?' Suspect

"There’s also a great chariot race that’s in the middle of ‘Five Armies’ which got cut. They spent a lot of time and money building a chariot and the computer graphics in that sequence are really special. I think Balin is driving the chariot and Dwalin is on the back firing off weapons, and Kili and Fili are hanging off the side of it. I think that whole sequence is a three and half-minute chase so there’s quite a lot of footage."

Just please, no, dont bother putting it back in. The last thing these films need is yet more pointlss cgi spectacle.

-What did you make of the new romantic storyline involving Tauriel and Kili?-

"To be honest I don’t have much of an opinion about it. They created characters that they wanted to explore. It was a female element that didn’t exist [in the books] which personally I don’t think was necessary. But I appreciated the fact that they knew that this film would be watched by a lot of young people and that they wanted young girls and women to have ca character that they could possibly relate to. I didn’t worry too much about it and I enjoyed the storyline myself and I was happy to see it played out."

As close you will get to an actor saying he didn't think it worked. The last part of his answer is just trotting out the party line that Boyens always used when talking to the press about it.

Whole interview is here- https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/richard-armitage-the-hobbit-trilogy-should-have-118295131076.html

by halfwise Thu May 07, 2015 12:38 pm

I didn't mind, and in fact looked forward to the concept of the White Council and Dol Guldor, it was the execution that bothered me. Same thing with Galadrial being kick-ass, I wanted to see her showing her power, but they botched it.

by David H Thu May 07, 2015 2:04 pm

Petty wrote: I think Balin is driving the chariot and Dwalin is on the back firing off weapons, and Kili and Fili are hanging off the side of it.

A double-dangle! Oh there's something to look forward to! :carrot:

PJ does love his dangles Rolling Eyes

by Mrs Figg Thu May 07, 2015 2:15 pm

Richard Armitage Tolkien lover :facepalm:

by Mrs Figg Thu May 07, 2015 2:16 pm

halfwise wrote:I didn't mind, and in fact looked forward to the concept of the White Council and Dol Guldor, it was the execution that bothered me. Same thing with Galadrial being kick-ass, I wanted to see her showing her power, but they botched it.

yep so did I. Nod

but it ended up horrible, still cant believe what they did to Galadriel. Extremely Crabbit

by Eldorion Thu May 07, 2015 5:28 pm

Armitage in full damage control mode.

by bungobaggins Thu May 07, 2015 5:42 pm

by Eldorion Thu May 07, 2015 5:46 pm

I'm gonna watch those videos when I have some time. Probably not until tomorrow though, because after work I'll be watching the UK election results.

by bungobaggins Thu May 07, 2015 5:59 pm

They're pretty good so far. Not wild about some of his suggestions in the fourth video, though.

by malickfan Thu May 07, 2015 7:14 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Richard Armitage interview with Yahoo, some interesting quotes-

“I think a lot of people who weren’t necessarily into the genre or Peter’s work probably felt it was too longI'm a fan of the genre and Jackson's earlier work, but when an extra film is added halfway through production and subplots go nowhere with random padding then it's too long; in which case I feel like maybe it’s not the right movie for you. The fans loved every single second of it and actually wanted more. When you look at what had to be lost, there was almost too much for three films."

'the fans loved every single second of it?' Guess he hasnt been on here then!Er, in fairness most of us don't seem to be fans of TH films, why would we love every minute of it? Unless he means in a morbidly ironic way...

"Peter Jackson’s love of Middle Earth drove him forward and made him want to explore every character and detail Oh yeah beloved characters like Alfred and Tauriel...because with the technology he developed, why wouldn’t you want to go to Dol Guldur with Gandalf?I had no interest either way-there simply wasn't enough information on the story in the books to get excited about Why wouldn’t you want to tell that side of the story? I think he knew he was never going to visit Middle Earth again so he wanted to show it in the best way that he couldOr just play around with as much money as he could, I still think the $800 Million budget is a tad obscene.”

That sounds to be like a veiled wa of saying PJ was more interested in his new toys than anything else. And the focus was not on would Dol Guldur make for a better story if included but, would Dol Guldur make for a good place to show of my new tech?Well, in fairness I'd rather he messed around with a largely made up subplot than tampering with the main story...not that it stopped him

"We’re going to see a big funeral scene at the end with some pretty emotional speeches by Gandalf. That’s something I’m looking forward to. I know that when the decision was made to take that out of the final movie was made there was a little scene added where you see the dwarves on the waterfall and they kneel around the dead body. That was an addition because the funeral was cut. I imagine in the Extended Edition they’ll both be in."

'emotional speeches by Gandalf?' Indeed, I expect more LOTR reshashing and nonense about the Far Green Shores

"There’s also a great chariot race that’s in the middle of ‘Five Armies’ which got cut. They spent a lot of time and money building a chariot and the computer graphics in that sequence are really special. I think Balin is driving the chariot and Dwalin is on the back firing off weapons, and Kili and Fili are hanging off the side of it. I think that whole sequence is a three and half-minute chase so there’s quite a lot of footage. "

Just please, no, dont bother putting it back in. The last thing these films need is yet more pointlss cgi spectacleWell it does have the word 'battle' in the title afterall....

-What did you make of the new romantic storyline involving Tauriel and Kili?-

"To be honest I don’t have much of an opinion about it. They created characters that they wanted to explore. It was a female element that didn’t exist [in the books] which personally I don’t think was necessary. But I appreciated the fact that they knew that this film would be watched by a lot of young people and that they wanted young girls and women to have ca character that they could possibly relate to. I didn’t worry too much about it and I enjoyed the storyline myself and I was happy to see it played out."

As close you will get to an actor saying he didn't think it worked. The last part of his answer is just trotting out the party line that Boyens always used when talking to the press about itI still have no strong opinion on this story either, I think Tauriel was an interesting enough character and she had good chemistry with the man with 'anything down his trousers', but the storyline also felt rushed disjointed and tacked on, if it had been less cliched and drawing less focus from Bilbo I think there would have been less complaints, at least it wasn't more CGI mashfests.

Whole interview is here- https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/richard-armitage-the-hobbit-trilogy-should-have-118295131076.html

by Mrs Figg Thu May 07, 2015 11:13 pm

$800 million budget spent on bad wigs and making NZ look ugly. A decent Hobbit film could have been made in the Lake District using real Dwarves and some coloured hoods for about 1% of that amount.

:clap:

by Eldorion Sun May 10, 2015 7:05 am

Watching the "Hobbit Rant" series of videos. I'm through the first three so far, and they're really good. Well put together, made me giggle a number of times, and make some well thought-out criticisms of the film's cinematic merits. Unfortunately the guy's Tolkien lore isn't the strongest (he seems to mistake Goblin-town for Moria and is unaware of the existence of the lesser Rings), but since the bulk of the videos is critiquing the films as films and not as adaptations, I can overlook that. Definitely Plinkett-influenced, but one of the better such imitators. I'm enjoying these quite a bit. Smile

Edit: Just finished the last two parts. I was actually down with his suggestions for Tauriel and the romance subplot. I'm not necessarily opposed to the concept of original characters, and I thought Evangeline Lily did an admirable job trying to salvage something from the material she was given, but I think this guy is pretty spot-on with the reasons it fell flat.

Regarding his attitude towards adaptations from part five, I actually mostly agree with him. I take that same position on stuff where I'm not invested in the source material, though to be honest even with stuff I love like HP I'm way more okay with changes than I was with LOTR. That's largely because I don't think PJ was very good at making changes, and partially due to limits of my own open-mindedness. But I think I've gotten better about this over the years.

Anyway, I do disagree with him that directors feel compelled to make adaptations of absolute fidelity. The fan-creator dynamic he describes is absolutely a thing, but the insistence upon fidelity almost always focuses on the most superficial shit. Like, he's right that people would have gone apeshit if there were fewer than 13 dwarves, but the dwarves in the book were totally interchangeable and such an alteration would have very little impact on Tolkien's story. But there are thousands of people who will actively defend PJ's changes to the tone and themes of The Hobbit. This is a problem with critics as well as fans; the praise LOTR got for being oh so faithful mostly focused on the superficial details that were carried over, and the few criticisms that are common even among fans of the movies are uniformly superficial. Like people freaking out over Arwen replacing Glorfindel, rather than the complete lack of agency for Frodo in that part of the movie. Or being mad that Frodo sent Sam away but overlooking Sam's bizarrely violent behavior and the fact that his self-justification seemed to be copied from a PSA about domestic abuse (and that he was nonetheless still portrayed as a hero).

by TranshumanAngel Tue May 12, 2015 11:38 am

Re. the point about fidelity. I hate to go on about the Riddles in the Dark podcast (I promise I'm not obsessed! I just think it's an interesting example of fan reaction/justification ex post facto), but they will often make the argument that Jackson adheres closely to Tolkien...but often the examples they bring up are those superficial or cosmetic elements that don't actually make a difference. I seem to recall that they made a big point about the 13 dwarves thing and praised Jackson for this.

Personally I think they should have had 5 or 6 and that way they might actually have been able paint some character traits.

I just wanted to say something with regard to this TORN issue. I'm not a TORN reject myself. I haven't posted there in years, and I've never posted on the Hobbit boards. Nevertheless it was just one example of how I felt some fans were treating other fans badly for failing to tow the party line. SO there ya go...

by malickfan Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:27 pm

Looks like the EE versions are getting a limited cinematic release (in North American at least) in October, if anyone is interested Laughing

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-hobbit-trilogy-extended-edition/

by bungobaggins Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:53 pm

Yaaaaaawn