Which Gandalf do you prefer?

Let's not be confined!
No new rhyme declined,
As long as the old rhyme is responded to in kind?
(Does that work till the rules are refined?)

When the movie is released you'll find,
Me full of booze - indeed, quite blind!

What's this I find?
This thread
Was dead;
Now a new post?
Is it a ghost?

Never mind mine Gorgeous Host,
For I do not believe in ghosts!

Whats this I find on my way home from a roast?
Chat here? Something to read as I munch on my toast?
How fine! Now where did I put that wine?

Happy to entertain you while you dine!
I hope your dinner's very fine.

How do you plan to entertain him, if you don't mind?
Will you sing a song or do dance while he unwinds?

I,ll take this as a sign
An axe i have to grind

An axe? And one to grind?
Is there a context for me to find?

Percy Bysshe Shelley. "A Mere Trifle." From "Book of Unwritten Sermons - Incomplete."

Wisey Banks

This thread will do- couldn't find one that really fitted but not worth a new one just for this.
But I was flicking through UT, the Quest for Erebor and there is this line from Gandalf;
'That pointed at once to Bilbo. And I had known him once very well, almost up to his coming of age, better than he knew me. I liked him then.'

Now granted he says he knew Bilbo better than Bilbo knew him but still that doesn't seem to fit with Bilbo's greeting to Gandalf in TH- there he doesn't seem to know Gandalf on sight and only realises who he is when Gandalf tells him his name, and then it seems he has heard more about Gandalf rather than recalling any personal interactions.
I somehow cant imagine Gandalf was sneakily keeping a dossier on hobbits however.
Any thoughts?

Ah, but he did keep an eye on them. The Tooks in particular, I believe. And Bilbo remembered the fireworks! IIRC he gets all excited for moment as he thinks back to when he saw them as a child.

According to UT Gandalf first got involved with Hobbits during the Long Winter, when many of them were freezing and starving to death- it was their pity and care for one another as well as their deep down resistance that impressed Gandalf.
Following this he seems to have spent a bit of time getting to know hobbits. He says "I knew the Shire very well by that time (meeting Thorin)...although I had been away for 20 years. So naturally thinking over hobbits that I knew, I said to myself: "I want a dash of the Took..and I want a good foundation of the stolider sort, a Baggins perhaps. That pointed at once to Bilbo. And I had known him once very well."

Taken the passage in full I still get the impression Gandalf must have known Bilbo on a personal level, not from afar.

When Bilbo was a child I would think. That would explain Gandalf remembering him better than Bilbo remembered Gandalf. It doesn't quite fit in because it's hard to relate childhood characteristics to adult, and Gandalf had preselected him. Dicey work, that.

We also have to remember that UT may have been written while JRRT was toying with the idea of massively revising the Hobbit, in which case complete consistency is not to be expected.

Inconsitency maybe the explanation Halfwise- Bilbo couldnt just have been a child as Gandalf says in UT he knew him up to just before his coming of age, I can still remember folks from when I was 18 (even withthe buckie brain) so I assume Hobbits can too- especially someone that was from a different species and twice you height and had such a strange thing as a big beard!

It must have been when Bilbo was a child, did Bilbo stay with the Tooks in Tookborough? I cant remember.

But occording to UT when Gandalf met Thorin, and thought of using Bilbo in the exploit, it was 20 years since he had last seen him.
Bilbo is what 50 at the start of TH? IN which case Gandalf last saw him when Bilbo was 30.

I'm going with the planned revision theory. But it ruins a classic and much loved scene.

I agree Halfwise which is why it struck me as so odd. Why on earth would Tolkien want to tamper with that initial meeting? Even in a revised more LotR's version its still superb.

I think Bilbo might have recognised him to an extent, like I would if I met a distance relative that I hadn't seen since my childhood. But not enough to place a name or any particular details. The last thing Bilbo would have expected would have been to see Gandalf at his gate, and at first he thought it was just a stranger at the gate but once Gandalf introduced himself he did remember (at least by his fireworks as Amarie said) who he was

(((Feels weird talking about Tolkien )))

Gandalf is pretty distinctive and memorable. If everyone youve ever seen looks more or less like you, are all between 2 and 4 ft tall more or less and you get to know a 5-6ft tall wizard with a huge grey beard and a blue pointy hat your not going to not recognise him, even if it is 20 years later.
And although Bilbo remembers who is its only in association with his fireworks and stories Bilbo has heard second hand about him. He doesn't seem to know Gandalf in the way I feel the UT passage implies.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Gandalf is pretty distinctive and memorable. If everyone youve ever seen looks more or less like you, are all between 2 and 4 ft tall more or less and you get to know a 5-6ft tall wizard with a huge grey beard and a blue pointy hat your not going to not recognise him, even if it is 20 years later.
And although Bilbo remembers who is its only in association with his fireworks and stories Bilbo has heard second hand about him. He doesn't seem to know Gandalf in the way I feel the UT passage implies.

But Bilbo doesn't really know Gandalf though does he? It's like if I met my old nursery teacher; I might, perhaps, recognize their face & even a name, but I wouldn't really know them. Bilbo has yet to properly know Gandalf.


Perhaps Bilbo did recognize Gandalf, but did not care to say. Perhaps he was nervous for Gandalf (like nearly all men to me) is very intimidating! Or maybe he didn't want to get involved in anything and decided acting coy was the best response until he learnt a little more about Gandalfs motives!

From a TH point of view Bilbos attitude is fine, just as you say, recalling a notable person you saw briefly in the past doing something impressive (fireworks).
Its Gandalfs version in UT thats the problem as he strongly implies it was more than this with words of Bilbo like "And I had known him once very well." Referring to Bilbo up to about the age of 30.

I don't see why it has to work both ways

Gandalf is Gandalf: he knows many things & people well, even if they don't know him at all