Which Gandalf do you prefer?

In response to Pettys comment about the fact that not much is happening I thought I would try and start a little book discussion, while news for the set is quiet (this could be a good thing as it suggests that people are too busy getting on with it to be distracted by other stuff!).

So I thought I would go back to the book, firstly I thought about what image springs to mind first when I think of the book 9Bilbo sitting on the ledge outside the side door, waiting! It is where he really comes into his own for me, is not only looked to by the dwarves, but equally is not being pulled along by them. He is separate, but through choice and different understanding, not through exclusion!) On second thought I thought this would be a bit short for a discussion, so then I picked up the book to see if I could find something I felt like chatting about. That small contact was enough, before a word had been read something did jump into my mind (it is plenty empty tonight so it didn't have to wreslte it's way past too many others).

I think it is clear to all that there is a marked difference in Gandalf between the two books.

Gandalf of the hobbit is a wizard in the very child like sense, involved in fantastical journeys, slightly unrespectable, with magic that he uses often, helping people out of difficult situations. The magic he uses is of a more obvious variey too, fire and light. He seems in control of what is around him and solving the problems of other without answering to others.

In LOTR we see a very different figure, the wizard as he is often seen in historical tales, a wise man, who knows much and tries to do the best he can with that knowledge. But the Gandlaf of LOTR is less sure of himself, subservient not just to another in the white council initially, but equally a servant of the elves and a higher power, with his own quest or impossible task. Equally there is less of the flash bang magic and more of a lore master to the character.

Is this change just the different nature of the two stories? When writng LOTR is it the case that Gandalf needed to be different to fit the later story, so the changes where made (as Tolkien change TH for the ring?). This seems the most logical, but given that Tolkien had no problem going back and tinkering with sections of the hobbit equally that could of been done for Gandalf. Taking on board the discussions previously of the different style of the two books this difference could also stem from the this disparate narration style, as the hobbit is a tale for children a lot of the detail of the character, the subtle parts, are left out. In an adult tale they are still there, necessary for the tale.

While both of these are reasonable I prefer to think that the difference stems from the reality of the different times of the tales. In the Hobbit it is a time of relative peace, dark things are only just beginning to stir back to life. Gandalf is there as guide and answerable to no one in the tale, he is the magic man to those in this tale and so this is how we see him. As LOTR begins there is a greater awareness that darkness is coming, there is a real possiblity that he may not be able to stop it so some sense of being up against it creep into the character. We also see him with his peers and so he is reflected in a different light.

So are the two Gandalfs different? Can they still be seen as the same individual? and finally do you have a preference? (personally I love the mystery of Gandalf in TH and the more active magic!)

Your last point about a mysterious Gandalf chimes with me- it was the wonder and the uncertaintiy of Gandalf in the Hobbit which made him appealing. The film of course will have lost the uncertainty- not for Bilbo- but for the viewer and thats a shame as well as a problem.
Gandalf of the Hobbit is also viewed through the eyes of Bilbo, to whom he is at turns wonderous, sinister, startling and frightening, but Bilbo has no larger context to put Gandalf into so it never enters the story- again a problem for the film where Gandalfs wider context will be half the film.
I like both insights into Gandalf's character- we seem from different perspectives, and as you say Kafria the mood of the times are different too, but the Hobbit version just edges it for me for nostalga, but for the record I think we will be getting LotR Gandalf in the TH film.

Not sure if he does use more magic- certainly than in PJ's version of LotR's but in the books there is the setting the trees on fire at the wolfs bit before Moria and lighting the faggots to start the fire when they are freezing, the shutting spell he tries to put on the door against the Beater of Drums, and no doubt more I am forgetting.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Not sure if he does use more magic- certainly than in PJ's version of LotR's but in the books there is the setting the trees on fire at the wolfs bit before Moria and lighting the faggots to start the fire when they are freezing, the shutting spell he tries to put on the door against the Beater of Drums, and no doubt more I am forgetting.

I think you are probably right here, I am thinking of the films where he seems to do very little visible magic!

I think the differences are primarily reflective of the way in which each story is told. If you read the short story "The Quest of Erebor", which can be found in Unfinished Tales, you get a brief recollection of the story of The Hobbit told from Gandalf's perspective. He's much more like his characterization in LotR in that piece.

Awesome idea for a new thread, BTW, and I will try to add more when I'm not so tired.

Urm... don't know which Gandalf i prefer, but I know his beard is very nice.

Welcome back, Squach

Yes, welcome back! It's good to see you again.

It is good to be back in the respectable bickering and discussion of Forumshire! Sorry I haven't been on, but homework seems to have been coming out of my pockets at the moment! I hope this homework craze will die down or I shall never get any time to be typing away at keyboards and laughing away at funny comments!

P.S Please comment on my story in the user fiction section! I have only posted two chapters and a snippet of a possible story-to-be, but just let me know if you want another chapter etc.!

Eldo better not introduce forumshire homework, it could have serious implications on my life...

Welcome back Squach!!!

I have more than enough homework myself without adding anything.

Phew!

Perhaps I could teach a class in "Forumshire Respectability." I just sense no one here would be interested.

No, we wouldn't be interested because we are already respectable and we know all about respectability because you ramble on about it anyway!

Then what is your reason for being so unrespectable, Squatch? Rebel!

odo banks wrote:Then what is your reason for being so unrespectable, Squatch? Rebel!

STOP CALLING ME SQUATCH!!!

P.S, if you think I am a rebel, you should know this boy at school called Cameron. He used to be a right teachers pet in our junior school, then when we suddenly got to secondary, he doesn't want to work and never hands his homework in and is very annoying!!!

P.P.S I am not a rebel, I am just unique!

Meow

Squach wrote:STOP CALLING ME SQUATCH!!!

There's your reason, Odo.

I don't care what your mother says, Squach (sic)... I must not be lax (not like your mother!) - Squatch it is... Here to help (in a firm manner)!



((((((((((At times, dear Squatch, I've thought you could do with a sound thrashing, but the more I think about it, perhaps it's Kafria who is in need of one! Or at least a good spanking, so as not to sound overly harsh! It never does Primmy or Bella any harm. Helps them know who wears the trousers around here! Satisfying for me, instructional for your Mum. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea! Do your Mother good, I think!))))))))))

So you're saying that everyone else walks around with no trousers on?!?!?



Crikey

I'll have no truck with trousers myself! Kilt is all a hobbit needs. Not sure thats what Odo meant mind, but I fully agree, we could do with a lot more hobbits in kilts around here. Down with trousers!

Yay, skirts!

I would love to see GB in a skirt!

Who mentioned skirts young Squach? Nothing wrong with them- on girls- but not for we male hobbits. That would be most unrespetable indeed! A kilt is what they need.

A kilt-skirt then!

What a disgusting idea! Kafria please ocntrol your childs wilder notions- especially such disrespectable ones! Some things are sacred!! You'll be saying women should be allowed sporrans next!

Pettytyrant101 wrote: What a disgusting idea! Kafria please ocntrol your childs wilder notions- especially such disrespectable ones! Some things are sacred!! You'll be saying women should be allowed sporrans next!

Who am I to stifle childhood creativity? Life will try to do that soon enough and those of us who retain our childlike wonder have so much more fun!