Member list, post counts and the Dominance of TORn

malickfan wrote:As Christopher Tolkien seems likely to choose a successor to his role as literary executor with views similar to his *Cough Scull and Hammond*, it's going to be hillarious seeing them report no more movies (Alot of people on the forum seem to think Christopher Tolkien owes them films, that's he's in the wrong for letting the books remain as his father wanted) and interesting to see if the site places the Tolkien fandom ahead of the Tolkien Estate.

Recoveryanonymous wrote:I wonder if the slowdown is related at all to Bree being off the map now. Or maybe it's just a byproduct of how awful these films turned out? Malick raised a good point; What will happen to the fandom a lot sites like Torn enjoy after the trilogy is over? Or just the fandom in general?

I never understood that mindset of casting Christopher Tolkien in the villain's role that so many enjoy doing. Especially after the films are over, the Tolkien Estate would be the only source of new content a la Children of Hurin. Unless WB plans on doing something else with the IP outside of those terrible games. I shudder to think of a show or something in their hands.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:OK, not funny any more- is the bloody dog there or not cause I've got twigs sticking in my tender parts and a squirrel eyeing up my nuts   

Eldorion wrote:Most of it is out there in one form or another by now.

Eldorion wrote:

Recoveryanonymous wrote:I wonder if the slowdown is related at all to Bree being off the map now. Or maybe it's just a byproduct of how awful these films turned out? Malick raised a good point; What will happen to the fandom a lot sites like Torn enjoy after the trilogy is over? Or just the fandom in general?

Having lost Bree has definitely not helped Forumshire.  Bree (and the outreach programs of Petty and others) was our biggest source of new members for about two years  , and we don't have anything obvious to replace itI joined Bree rather late, early 2012 I think, and I can't actually recall any major 'outreach program until nearer it's demise, maybe I missed an exodus? Did all the 'first agers' here post on Bree at some point?.  However, this slowdown is affecting almost all Tolkien forums.  TORn is still chugging along, but it's unique at this point in how high-profile it is.  Other forums, even ones that are 15 years oldReally? Which ones? The Oldest I know of is The Barrowdowns, an impressive beacon of knowledge and crabbit or so by now, have slowed to an even lesser pace than we have.  Forumshire is actually doing pretty well, relatively speakingAlthough, in fairness we do have sverl major off topic forums, alot of the other forums I'm aware of are rather more traditional, you won't see discusion on the Gaza conflict or oddly shaped Carrots on Minas Tirirth or TORc.  That doesn't say much for the prospects of non-TORn forums once The Hobbit hype is over.  The rejuvenating effect on the fandom was far, far less than hoped/expected Even the president of the Tolkien Society has noticed it-I'll post the interview below.  I expect we'll see an increase in the number of zombie sites (those forums still online where the only posts are the ones asking where everyone went), and even the ones that still host communities will experience a permanent slowdown.  The same thing happened after the LOTR hype faded, but that was coming down from a much higher starting point.

I never understood that mindset of casting Christopher Tolkien in the villain's role that so many enjoy doingI've actually seen the attitude expressed on TORn, more than once, that C.Tolkien owes fans A Silmarillion film, and is doing his father a disservice by being so protective. Especially after the films are over, the Tolkien Estate would be the only source of new content a la Children of Hurin. Unless WB plans on doing something else with the IP outside of those terrible gamesThey has the rights to the apparently hugely extensive Appendices   . I shudder to think of a show or something in their hands.

There was a pretty consistent flow of new material at every-couple-year intervals from from 1977 to 1996 (when the History of Middle-earth was completed), and again in the middle of the 2000s (when Hammond & Scull flourished and the History of The Hobbit was finally published).  Since 2007, however, the only new release of Tolkien stuff that I can think of at the moment is The Art of The Hobbit, published in 2012 to coincide with AUJ, but that was a pretty minor offering and I don't believe it included any new written material.  Christopher Tolkien has focused on publishing and highlighting his father's non-Middle-earth works since Children of Hurin (also from 2007), which while cool, was expressly a one-off thing that would not be followed by other polished novels from the legendarium.  I don't expect that we will see much in the way of new Middle-earth material in printperhaps not new, but maybe alternative material?.  Most of it is out there in one form or another by now.

Onscreen is a different story.  Considering that WB and JK Rowling are on track to turn a 50 page parody textbook It was for charity though into a trilogy of moviesSix if Jackson gets involved..., I'm bracing myself for any number of possibilities when it comes to LOTR spin-off films and/or shows.

Norc wrote:THIS FORUM WILL NEVER DIE BECAUSE WE HAVE DOCTOR WHO AND SHERLOCK AND MOVIES IN GENERAL AND THE NEXT FREAKING STAR WARS MOVIES AND ALL THOSE MARVEL MOVIES AND LIKE PROBABLY MORE STAR TREK MOVIES FOR PETTY TO RANT OVER AND OMG WE WILL SURVIIIIIVE!!!

malickfan wrote:It's also clear from looking online, and in the various HOME volumes, that the drafts of LOTR, The Silmarillion and The Hobbit edited and published by C.Tolkien, and John D Rateliff are only a part of the total material that exists:

...

Are still in the process of publishing Tolkien's linguistic writings (I recall reading somewhere that this material extends to several thousand pages).

In terms of Tolkien's writing not about Middle Earth...there's alot.

malickfan wrote:I joined Bree rather late, early 2012 I think, and I can't actually recall any major 'outreach program until nearer it's demise, maybe I missed an exodus? Did all the 'first agers' here post on Bree at some point?

Really? Which ones? The Oldest I know of is The Barrowdowns, an impressive beacon of knowledge and crabbit

Although, in fairness we do have sverl major off topic forums, alot of the other forums I'm aware of are rather more traditional, you won't see discusion on the Gaza conflict or oddly shaped Carrots on Minas Tirirth or TORc

I've actually seen the attitude expressed on TORn, more than once, that C.Tolkien owes fans A Silmarillion film, and is doing his father a disservice by being so protective

It was for charity though

Eldorion wrote:

malickfan wrote:It's also clear from looking online, and in the various HOME volumes, that the drafts of LOTR, The Silmarillion and The Hobbit edited and published by C.Tolkien, and John D Rateliff are only a part of the total material that exists:

...

Are still in the process of publishing Tolkien's linguistic writings (I recall reading somewhere that this material extends to several thousand pages).

I heard what you're saying Malick, and I'm aware of some of the stuff you mentioned (though not all of it, in part because I still haven't read much of the History of The Hobbit.  But I'm not sure how much of that we'll be seeing, at least not in book form.  More stuff might make it out in the peer-reviewed journals, but in terms of books that most people will be able to get their hands on, The History of Middle-earth was already reeeeeally stretching the boundaries of popular interest.  I suppose we could see more explicitly academic books (from University publishers, with limited printing runs and aimed at a dedicated scholarly audience), but that's not going to do much to fire up the fandom.  I'm not trying to be a cynic, but I'd be surprised if there are any major revelations remaining.  It seems to be largely filling in the gaps.  I agree that looking at something like The History of The Lord of the Rings, it obviously doesn't include ever single draft ever written, but the law of diminishing returns will kick in at some point.

In terms of Tolkien's writing not about Middle Earth...there's alot.

I fully expect to see more non-Middle-earth writings published in the near future, and potentially for quite some time after that, but I don't think that Tales from the Perilous Realm, Sigurd and Gudrun, The Fall of Arthur, or the new Beowulf translation have really made much of a splash in either the fandom or popular culture as a whole.  With The Children of Hurin, there was a good deal of buzz over "the first new novel from the author of LOTR in 30 years", but with each new book, there's less excitement, given that they're unlike Tolkien's most famous works and consist of a ton of footnotes and editorial explanations.  That's not to say that the effort put into preparing these works for publication was wasted, since they're very valuable for people who are interested in such topics, but I don't think it's going to grow the fandom or lay the groundwork for future film adaptations or anything.

Eldorion wrote:That made sense to me, malick], and I'd just like to say that I really appreciate you engaging me with these long, back-and-forth, in-depth discussions This might be the last of the booze talking, but It's my pleasure Eldo, as well as being a very fair, hard working Mod, you certainly come across as one of the most mature, thoughtful persons I'm come across on the internet, you really should write more on your website you know.  Not only does it give me an excuse to ramble at length about stuff that I find interesting, but your posts make me think about things that I sometimes had become complacent about.  It's a lot of fun That's the one word you'd use?  But yeah it's always interesting to get your thoughts on things Eldo, instead of one sentence, you often have a dozen and often quite thought-provoking.  So thanks!

I think I had heard about the Extended Homecoming, but I appreciate you bringing it up againI think I read about on the Mythsoc Group on Yahoo, typing in 'Unpublished writings by Tolkien' on the internet does lead to some very interesting things.  I think it's a good example of the boundaries of popular interest in Tolkien.  The Tolkien Reader of the 1960s (which is one of the only legal ways to read Homecoming)In the UK (maybe Canada or Europe as well, I'm not sure whether Harper Collins publishes internationally), you can read it in the revised edtion of Tree and Leaf-it also contains Tolkien's poem 'Mythopeia' which for some reason never seems to have been reprinted was an example of at attempt at using Tolkien's massive mainstream popularity at that time to shed light on his lesser-known worksI get why the Tolkien Estate is a bit cautious of being seen to cash in, but I can't help but feel they haven't used the publicity from the films as well as they could have.  I think it succeeded to some extent, but when most people talk about Tolkien, they're really just talking about Middle-earth.  Furthermore, an interest in Middle-earth does not necessarily equate to an interest in Tolkien's life or other worksWell for me it did, I only bought Hammond and Scull's massive Companion and Guide two(?) weeks ago, it's quite simply brilliant! if confusing-no contents page, even for those who delve deeply into the legendarium material.

It would be interesting to see if Tolkien's own academic and linguistic writings start to see the light of day, though I suspect that if they do, it will be limited to journal articles or appendices to other books, rather than being published on their ownI think the journal 'Tolkien Studies' is reprinting some of his earlier academic works-but that is the central point (or one of them) I was making, is Tolkien's work as a academic of more or less importance?, and does the average reader deserve easy access to it? I would love to read Tolkien's http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Kullervo but I don't think I'll ever be able to.  If they are, it will probably be as extremely limited runs from university presses.  Tolkien was a famous and successful philologist, but philology is a pretty obscure branch of the academic tree.  Personally, I'm more interested to see if we get more scholarly books about Tolkien and the legendariumWe will, just have a look at Amazon, you'd be surprised just how many books 'about' Tolkien are published, I've read little beyond Tom Shippey, Carpenter and Garth, but by and large very little grabs me.  Hammond & Scull arguably closed the book on general biographies with the Companion and GuideHaving recently aquired this set, I'm inclined to (partiallty) agree with you, but I think there's still room for further study on specific matters.  John Garth's Tolkien and the Great War has achieved significant acclaim Which it deserves, excellent bookfor its biological and literary analytical work on a specific topic, and it's probably easier to get into than the massive C&GYes, and no, my only real problem with Garth's book was it's depedance on teh reader having a good knowledge of the BOLT (I have read the BOLT, twice, but they aren't exactly easy books to follow), akthough Tolkien deinfed WW1 had an influence on LOTR, at times it felt like Garth's book was a little obscure for the average readers, I certainly think The Somme had an influence on Sam and Frodo's jotuney across Mordor, in general I've got the impression alot of literay critics write crisitm for other critics, not for readers, Garth's book, at times felt it was unsure which group it was aimed towards.  Stuff like this is unlikely to attract as much mainstream attention as new fiction, though.It still sells, apparently, jduging by the amount of books about/by/loosely related to Tolkien published very month

Undoubtedly, people growing up in the 2010s and 2020s will continue to discover and love Tolkien, just as people growing up in the '70s did, despite the dearth of new materialI wouldn't be surprised(well, ok I'm hoping), if looonnnggg down the line the Tolkien estate authorised the manuscripts of LOTR, Hobbit etc to be published entirely....  There is now so much out there, mostly but by no means exclusively thanks to Christopher Tolkien, that one can spend years reading and studying it and still have lots more to discover if one is interested enoughI've owned the H.O.M.E set for nearly two years, but I've probably only really read half of it.  I know that's true of me.  I think Tolkien is ingrained enough in popular culture that he isn't going away (and was even before the movies)Given there is at least three Biopic films planned, I don't think cinema's going to forget him any time soon.  The majority of people will continue to engage with his writing strictly as works of pop culture, as has been the case since at least the '60s, but I'm sure the scholarly community will find more to say about the man and his workThat's the thing though, is Tolkien (well, middle earth at least) now too ingrained in pop culture via the films, to be appreciated the way he used to be?.