TorN Refugees

There you go. TorN Refugees can stay in this temporary Camp for now - just don't try to get past the barbed wire fence, please.  

Do we have any TORn refugees? I thought most of the "bitching about getting banned from TORn" crew were already members here before they got banned.

Then why didn't someone {{{(a reputable Admin-type, maybe - if any such creature exists here? }}} put up the tents and a barbed wire fence long before now? I mean to say, why is it always me who has to do he heavy lifting?

I guess I was kind of a torn refugee. Except I didn't get banned. I just couldn't adequately express myself.  

For some reason I thought you came here via Bree, Bungo.

Anyway, I'm pushing four years on TORn and I've never gotten anything worse than a warning. Although I haven't posted actively for most of that time.

Well, I lurked at Bree for a bit (where I did found out about Forumshire), never posted or made an account, and my search for a more open forum began after I got sick of torn (which was like a couple months). So I feel more like a refugee of torn.

There's only so much I could take of their "family friendly atmosphere." Give me a break. Some of the mods are like bad babysitters running around swatting anyone they don't like. Power corrupts, but faux internet power corrupts absolutely.

I really don't think you can have an unbiased atmosphere when the site is so closely associated with the films, and does constant advertising for the movies, WB, Sideshow, Weta, LEGO, etc. I was generally surprised to see torn e-begging a couple months back. To think they'd get a hefty cut through advertising. Unless they're actually letting those ads run for free...  

I just don't see a point in posting on torn anymore, because anything I say that is remotely negative or questioning is going to be met with apologists and people that will try to provoke a reaction from you.

I got banned from TORn twice  

I haven't been banned or even warned at TORn but I scarcely post there anymore (at least on it's hobbit forum), I'm neither scarily knowledgeable about the books, or in love with Jackson's 'flawless masterpieces' so my membership has become kind of irrelevant, the Thorin/Legolas fangirls do my head in,  the endless stream of stupid posts (Anyone catch the 'Did you see Smaug in the Warner Bros clouds' thread?) and the rather annoying atmosphere (Basically every time some has a big problem with the film, it seems they are trolling and the Mods seem to pounce on them, or people who like the films can't be arsed to respond unwilling to admit the film's flaws) seems like a barrier to discussing the films.

I joined nearly 2 years ago, when their was actually some decent discussion and excitement going on, nowadays the forum seems so cluttered with threads and excitable newbies I can't keep track of what's going on...even if I was interested in doing so.

And frankly for a supposed Tolkien fansite originally set up by fans concerned about the LOTR films, the place seems to have a double standard, I've lost count of the threads bashing Christopher Tolkien/ the books/ inquiring about silmarillion films (don't these people read???)/ 'die hard' Tolkien fans admitting they don't really care about The Hobbit book. Coupled with the distateful (IMO) adverts for the Weta Workshop models/toys (no offense to anyone but I find the whole Tolkien marketing stuff mostly tacky crap)

That said there are plenty of cool people who post there, and I have on more than a few occasions taken place in thought provoking discussions (The Reading Room is one impressive beacon of knowledge!).

*Ends Rant*


And just out of Interest Figgs which names did you post under? I remember Elanorflower?

Mrs Figg wrote:I got banned from TORn twice    

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

Thanks for explaining, bungo. My own activity on TORn has been very sporadic, but there was a brief period when it was my most active forum.  This was during one of my self-imposed exiles from the first forum I joined (LOTR Plaza) due to an ongoing beef with the admins there that I was involved in.  Though they eventually made me a mod in spite of my agitating and rabble-rousing previously.

But even though my own moderation policies haven't always been as relaxed as they are here, I've never cared for the baby-sitter school of moderators, which caused some tension when I posted on TORn.  But I do still venture back there occasionally after a very long complete absence, in part because a couple of kind people remembered me from my active period and welcomed me back. ^_^

malickfan wrote:I joined nearly 2 years ago, when their was actually some decent discussion and excitement going on, nowadays the forum seems so cluttered with threads and excitable newbies I can't keep track of what's going on...even if I was interested in doing so.

I sympathize with much of what you say, but this part jumped out at me. This is largely just a factor of TORn's visibility as the de facto first stop for Tolkien movie news. They're used to be a handful of sites that shared this status, but most of them have declined, leaving TORn with a monopoly. The endless newbies and clutter are an unavoidable part of being the first-stop forum for people who are new to the fandom. Bree actually used to share in this role, to a much lesser degree, because its SEO was very good and it was always near the top of Google results for Hobbit movie information.

I know in my experience on LOTR Plaza, one of the reasons the mods used to crack down on purists was because movie discussions were the point of entry for so many new members (probably a majority) that they didn't want them scared off right away due to negativity. This was in part because the purist/revisionists wars had been going on for years and were very heated and unpleasant, much more than they have ever been on this site. But on most sites, this attitude has eventually cooled, especially as more purists have ended up in positions as mods. TORn has always had a reputation as a bastion of PJ-lovers, such that the mixed reaction to AUJ over there has led to accusations from some TORners that the site is "too negative" now. But it's all relative, I suppose.

Anyway, this post is getting rambly, but I guess I just find the social norms and factions and interplay between the fandom and its various sites to be interesting. So thanks for humoring me by reading this, guys.

malickfan wrote:

I've lost count of the threads bashing Christopher Tolkien/ the books/ inquiring about silmarillion films (don't these people read???)/ 'die hard' Tolkien fans admitting they don't really care about The Hobbit book. Coupled with the distateful (IMO) adverts for the Weta Workshop models/toys (no offense to anyone but I find the whole Tolkien marketing stuff mostly tacky crap)

That said there are plenty of cool people who post there, and I have on more than a few occasions taken place in thought provoking discussions (The Reading Room is one impressive beacon of knowledge!).

*Ends Rant*


And just out of Interest Figgs which names did you post under? I remember Elanorflower?

I was Elanorflower and you are right there are some cool people on the forum, but as you said the thing that annoyed me most were the Book Bashers, in particular one woman who came on to call Tolkien banal, I blasted her sniffy seemingly anti-Tolkien book posts which got me a shit storm of yappers. I also critisized the blatant marketing of the useless EE, that got me banned.

I enjoyed the LOTR thread and the reading and art threads though.

bungobaggins wrote:

Mrs Figg wrote:I got banned from TORn twice    

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

  wow thanks  

Fair Enough Eldo, I do see what you mean (TORN is getting about 30-60 new registered members a month I think) and I suppose I can't really talk as I'm pretty new to the fandom myself (didn't read the books till '07) but Other than here and Bree (and very very occasionally Barrow Downs) I'm not really a member of any other forum so I don't have a point of reference.

I do however think TORn position as the 'official fan site' creates as much problems and it does benefits, still as you say it IS nice to have such a variety of opposing views on the films and fandom in general.

I miss Bree, Petty and I had some ding dong fights about the correct grass length in The Shire.

I miss Telperion over at Bree, always refreshing to get another viewpoint (frankly I'm surprised he lasted so long).

malickfan wrote:Fair Enough Eldo, I do see what you mean (TORN is getting about 30-60 new registered members a month I think) and I suppose I can't really talk as I'm pretty new to the fandom myself (didn't read the books till '07) but Other than here and Bree (and very very occasionally Barrow Downs) I'm not really a member of any other forum so I don't have a point of reference.

I do however think TORn position as the 'official fan site' creates as much problems and it does benefits, still as you say it IS nice to have such a variety of opposing views on the films and fandom in general.

TORn is actually not even super-active by the standards of the fandom several years ago, much less in the heyday of 2002-2004.  LOTR Plaza averaged over a million posts a year at first.  TORn wasn't even in the top three most active Tolkien forums for a while, but they have been far and away the most successful at adapting to the transition from LOTR to TH and remaining relevant, which is why they're top dog now.  Well, that and their relationship with the filmmakers and their longstanding reputation for movie news reporting.

I think you're right that being the go-to site brings with it some negative side-effects, but that's actually a reason to be grateful to TORn in my opinion. In a way they act as a clearinghouse for the rest of the fandom by attracting so many people who get a primer on what to expect from Tolkien forums from TORn before venturing out elsewhere.  Of course, plenty of people join other forums first, but TORn (and other forums before it) attracted so many people that they reduce the strain on other forums.  Although the flip side of that is other forums have much fewer new members joining and will slowly die if they cannot keep older members coming back.  This is what's happened to the majority of Tolkien forums once the LOTR hype wave died down.  Even today, in the midst of The Hobbit, overall activity is nowhere near what it was for LOTR.  That was lightning in a bottle in terms of its impact on pop culture, IMO, and it also coincided with the rapid growth of Internet forums in general, which are now in decline since the rise of social media.

Again good points, perhaps I was being a little unfair on TORn's forum guidelines, as more or less the first stop for many in the fandom now I guess installing some sort of etiquette is a good thing.

You are 19 though aren't you? Were you really posting on forums that long ago?

I can scarcely remember the media blow out around the Lotr films.

yep Eldo is a scarily brainy teenager.  

I remember there was a LOTR forum started up by the guy who played Gamling, I dont know what happened to it.

Mrs Figg wrote:I got banned from TORn twice    

I will always love you.  

u sir, have my like.

malickfan wrote:Again good points, perhaps I was being a little unfair on TORn's forum guidelines, as more or less the first stop for many in the fandom now I guess installing some sort of etiquette is a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with TORn's basic philosophy of moderation, but I do see where they're coming from.  When I was a mod on LOTR Plaza I was a hardass (though being an angry 16-year-old probably played a role in that ).  But by the time we moved to the current forum here, I was frustrated with that system and wanted to experiment with a radically different sort of moderation.  TORn's system is a hell of a lot closer to the norm than ours, and it's doubtful that our system could stand up to the pressures of being the go-to forum.  But on the other hand, I think TORn takes the whole nanny-mod thing too far.

You are 19 though aren't you? Were you really posting on forums that long ago?

I can scarcely remember the media blow out around the Lotr films.

The first forum I signed up on was in early 2007, and I didn't get really active until the end of 2008.  But as a forum brat (being 14) I spent a LOT of time hanging around older people who had been there since the early days of the forum, listening to their stories and absorbing everything I heard.  And I also spent a lot of time poking around in archives and old threads on various forums where I was active or at least lurked regularly.  Believe it or not, I actually spend a lot less time online now then I did back then. But regardless, by the time I was posting the Golden Age was a distant memory for most sites, and even on the largest ones it was fading fast.  But in part because I became active during a transitional period and met a lot of people who dropped out of the fandom shortly thereafter, I have a lot of nostalgia for the early 2000s, which is why I go on about forum dynamics like this sometimes.

Actually, I started working on a written history of online Tolkien fandom a few months ago as an addendum to my comparative forum post-totals project.  The history project stalled, but any time I can get people to listen to me go on about online communities or Tolkien fandom I build up a head of steam and have a hard time stopping.

Any chance of you putting up your history of fandom Eldo? And where do crabbits fit into it?

Are crabbits something like rabbits?  


{{{Mmmmm do I feel a stirring in the creative waters....?}}}