Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

[Elthir]

I officially offer my services as bio-picky horse-colour-consultant.

I plan to be a night-grey-mare to work with it's not etymology

[David H]

[Elthir]

Awesome.

But yet, I was automatically logged out of Forumshire after my last horse-colour based post.

Coincidence?

I think not or so!

I might have led this horse to Anduin once too often.

Giddyup!

Noro lim!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{I may not be a Lore Master but that horse does not appear in anyway to be at all, grey }}}

[Elthir]

Maybe "night grey"?

shows off skills to biopickers as a professional horse-colour-namer

[David H]

{{I may not be a Lore Master but that horse does not appear in anyway to be at all, grey }}}

As I've said once or twice before, it's not about whether the horse APPEARS grey, it's about whether it IS grey, which is a horse of a different colour altogether, so to speak!

[Elthir]

And "is grey" is what colour again... using words on a page as some writers do?

[David H]

I think it may be more proper to think of it as analogous to race in this case. If somebody were to identify themselves as white, or black, or brown, and somebody else were to ask "And "white or black or brown" is what colour again... using words on a page as some writers do?", what answer would you give them?

[Elthir]

Let me put it this way then, what colour do "is grey" type of horses (as a theoretical race of horses) appear to be?

Using words a writer would use

[halfwise]

I think David's post as to races referred to as colors is helpful for most of us who otherwise haven't a clue what you two are yammering on about.

[Elthir]

It's nearing Christmas... and the box has been opened!

"... but their captains and chieftains were upon horses, white and grey."

JRRT, The Fall of Gondolin, Unfinished Tales

[Pettytyrant101]

{{White? Thats a step too far surely, even for Tolkien! Its like he is winding us up from beyond the sea }}}

[David H]

It's nearing Christmas... and the box has been opened!

"... but their captains and chieftains were upon horses, white and grey."

JRRT, The Fall of Gondolin, Unfinished Tales

Interpreted a certain way, that quotation could be used to support the position that Tolkien's horses can be grey while at the same time appearing white, hence horses who are both "white and grey" at the same time.

[Elthir]

Let me put it this way then, what colour do "is grey" type of horses (as a theoretical race of horses) appear to be?

no pictures though

[David H]

Rather than a theoretical horse race, how about just one theoretical grey horse who was born of parents who were also theoretical grey horses (who might or might not appear white, at least in some lights)? At birth and through adolescence our young theoretical horse appears to be somewhere between jet black and coal black, but he culturally identifies with all the other theoretical grey horses around him who appear to be anywhere on the black -> white spectrum.

As he gets to be about 3 years old, snowy hairs start becoming noticeable in his sable coat, which takes on a dappled or mottled appearance, fading gradually towards the appearance of alabaster as the years pass. By the time he gets to be 20 he'd theoretically disappear in a snow storm if you were foolish enough to let him run free in one, as would any of his kin of the same age if given half a chance.

Does that paint a picture for you?

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Hold on- are you trying to say snow is grey? }}}

[Elthir]

Horsemaster? Lt. Kendrick ordered the colour red, didn't he? Because that's what you told Lt. Kendrick to do!

And when it went bad, you cut these quadrapeds loose! You had Markinson sign off on a phony grey transfer order, and you doctored the log book!

[Elthir]

Rather than a theoretical horse race (...) Does that paint a picture for you?

It does. But let's try another one  

"... and after them came the Lady Galadriel and Celeborn, Lord of Lothlorien, riding upon white steeds and with them many fair folk of their land, grey-cloaked with white gems in their hair; and last came Master Elrond, mighty among Elves and Men, bearing the scepter of Annuminas, and beside him upon a grey palfrey rode Arwen his daughter, Evenstar of her people."

Tolkien's already painted a nice description here, but from this, what colour does Arwen's grey horse appear to be?

If an "is grey" horse doesn't necessarily appear grey to the eye...

[David H]

Horsemaster? Lt. Kendrick ordered the colour red, didn't he? Because that's what you told Lt. Kendrick to do!

And when it went bad, you cut these quadrapeds loose! You had Markinson sign off on a phony grey transfer order, and you doctored the log book!

Son, we live in a world of shadows, and those shadows have to be guarded by men who measure the world in shades of grey. Who's gonna do it? You??

I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Finwë and you curse Morgoth. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that  Finwë's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives!!!.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall!

We use words like Black, Grey, White. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you are entitled to!!!

{{{I always wanted to say that! }}}

[Elthir]

[Eldorion]

[Eldorion]

According to someone on the Tolkien Society's Facebook page the exhibition that will be shown at the Bodleian Library in Oxford this year will be coming to the Morgan Library & Museum in NYC next year, tentatively scheduled for between January and May. It hasn't been officially announced yet but the person who posted about it apparently called both institutions to get confirmation. Would definitely be cool to get to see it.

http://www.themorgan.org/

[azriel]

that looks lovely inside

[Pettytyrant101]

{{I like this guys Tolkien channel }}

[halfwise]

I'd go to the Morgan library just to be in that space.  In fact I see some very interesting concerts coming up.  At the moment I need to figure out if I really want to plonk down 45 smackers for a recorder concert.  Probably not.