Re: Tolkien Trivia

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:56 am

One of my favourite lines in the whole Tom bit is on the rainy day that he tells them stories including the one about 'badgers and their queer ways".

I dont know why but that line has always tickled me.

And I adore the entire passage where history seems to unfold before you- I was seeing this in my head like timelapsed footage before I knew what timelapsed footage was-

'Sheep were bleating in flocks. Green walls and white walls rose. There were fortresses on the heights. Kings of little kingdoms fought together, and the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords. There was victory and defeat; and towers fell, fortresses were burned, and flames went up into the sky. Gold was piled on the biers of dead kings and queens: and mounds covered them, and the stone doors were shut: and the grass grew over all. Sheep walked for a while biting the grass, but soon the hills were empty again.'

by jon Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:43 am

I love that bit!

But when I go back and read it now I'm always left with the impression that it was a spontaneous passage when Tolkien first wrote it and that the history of Cardolan and Rhudaur came in later when he was trying to make sense of everything historically. Those initial passages are very old in the initial writing - and I doubt whether even Tolkien himself knew where the story was going at that point (or, for that matter, knew much about the "Third Age' as we know it now)¹. I think he was just spinning a wild yarn - or at least that's what it seems like. But I love that passage none-the-less.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:One of my favorite lines in the whole Tom bit is on the rainy day that he tells them stories including the one about 'badgers and their queer ways".

I don't know why but that line has always tickled me.

Also from The Adventures of Tom Bombadil:

Tolkien wrote:

...

Then Tom hurried on. Rain began to shiver,
round rings spattering in the running river;
a wind blew, shaken leaves chilly drops were dripping;
into a sheltering hole Old Tom went skipping.

Out came Badger-brock with his snowy forehead
and his dark blinking eyes. In the hill he quarried
with his wife and many sons. By the coat they caught him,
pulled him inside their earth, down their tunnels brought him.

Inside their secret house, there they sat a-mumbling:
'Ho, Tom Bombadil! Where have you come tumbling,
bursting in the front door? Badger-folk have caught you.
You'll never find it out, the way that we have brought you!'

"Now, old Badger-brock, do you hear me talking?
You show me out at once! I must be a-walking.
Show me to your backdoor under briar-roses;
then clean grimy paws, wipe your earthy noses!
Go back to sleep again on your straw pillow,
like fair Goldberry and Old Man Willow!

Then all the Badger-folk said: 'We bag your pardon!'
They showed Tom out again to their thorny garden,
went back and hid themselves, a-shivering and a-shaking,
blocked up all their doors, earth together raking.

...

These days, when I go back and re-read the Chapter In the House of Tom Bombadil I'm left with the impression that that first poem, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, was written before the chapter was and that he had it sitting in front of him. Much of the same exact language appears in both the poem and the chapter - but the chapter seems like it's derived from the poem, not vice-versa.

¹Mind you, I have yet to read The History of the Lord of the Rings, but I have glanced through it and I believe this to be the case.

by Elthir Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:39 pm

Yes The Adventures of Tom Bombadil was first published in the Oxford Magazine in 1934 (long story short), and this was revised somewhat for the book published in the 1960s, where the poem is: "made up of various-hobbit versions of legends concerning Bombadil."

As a younger person I used to listen to Tolkien reading this poem (he wasn't actually present), among other things, on what we called a 'record player'... it had an 'arm' and 'needle' and played records... round things with grooves... oh never mind.

by jon Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:00 pm

See... if I had read The History of the Lord of the Rings I probably would have known that! I mean about the poem... not about those weird things with grooves...

Very Happy

by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:51 pm

I love those passages about Tom and the Barrows too. Its probably my favourite of the entire books.

by Bluebottle Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:48 pm

Tolkien Trivia - Page 2 Tumblr_nkt55aKr6j1tlppmio1_500

Christopher Tolkien explains why his father, JRR Tolkien, wrote down “The Hobbit” in the first place, when it was originally intended to be an oral bedtime story for his children.

by Eldorion Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Thank goodness that young Christopher was so detail-oriented. Laughing

by Bluebottle Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:29 pm

It's nice to know one has a kindred spirit in CT certainly. Razz

by Bluebottle Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:41 pm

"How do you move on? You move on when your heart finally understands that there is no turning back."
— J.R.R. Tolkien

by azriel Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:50 pm

Ooh I like that phrase Nod

by Music of the Ainur Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:31 am

Enjoyed the Bombadil discussion very much. Thanks for the Tom energy reminder and the history lesson.

What a brillant character. He who is dwelling in the world of M.E.yet not. The master who sings the stronger songs.

He who dwells in a private forgotten nitche not bound by the "normal laws." Which apply to the others.

I think he added a rich layer to the Tolkien world and is perhaps my favorite character.

Thanks again, hope all are well.

by azriel Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:11 am

Hello !

by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:12 pm

hiya Music. I think Tom is my favourite character too. he is the one person I would most like to meet anyway.

by azriel Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:31 pm

Im counting my blessings that peejers never did get his hands on Tom Bombadil !! He fooked up on everything else think what misery we'd be feeling if he screwed up poor Tom ! Then I think the LOTRs would really, truly, be chronically ballsed up beyond repair pale

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:02 pm

Hi Music good to see you again. pub

The entire section from when they leave Crickhollow in the morning till they leave the Barrow-downs is one of my favourites in the entire trilogy.
So glad PJ didnt ruin it too.

by David H Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:28 pm

Hi Music!

Yes, I think the Old Forest/Bombadil/Barrow-downs sequence is one of the most magic sequences in the whole books, as the Hobbits first get a taste of the Great Wide World and learn to tell Good from Evil. I could read it over and over just for the atmosphere.

by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:34 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Hi Music good to see you again.

The entire section from when they leave Crickhollow in the morning till they leave the Barrow-downs is one of my favourites in the entire trilogy.
So glad PJ didnt ruin it too.

its mine too! cheers

by Music of the Ainur Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:03 pm

Agreed Figg,

he is my choice to hang with as well. some may think him too silly or childish to fit into the "Serious" story and that he doesn't belong but I couldn't disagree more. I love that JRR included a being who was "beyond the normal rules". He that was Master yet sweet and kind hearted.

I love that his mode of action in M.E. was song and music. Kinda reminds me of Eru and infact many of the worlds creation stories...

And though at first I was very disappointed I agree that it is a blessing that his spirit wasn't tainted by a clueless treatment in film.Petty,as I find nearly without exception I am in agreement with your points.

Wish you all joy in the days to come.