Things that are making you crabbit! [4]

Just to clarify a point on the use of 'celtic'- professionally it describes language- there is a root 'celtic' language starting somewhere in mid-Europe.
Each of the nations considered today 'Celtic' say Scotland or Ireland- are counted as such because there still exists a language derived form that original 'celtic' language- in the case of Scotland and Ireland its their two forms of Gaelic.
Its only when referring to the languages as Celtic does the term have any real meaning. As obviously, despite many similarities even Scotland and Ireland have two recognisably distinct and different cultures historically.

Interesting stuff Petty, I'll have to do some more reading on it. Thanks!

Wait....there's a difference between Irish and Scottish culture?

Both full of redheads wearing plaid and drinking whiskey. Talk funny and play the harp and have a fascination with bogs.

We drink Buckie they drink Guinness. We speak Scots Gaelic, they speak Irish Gaelic, we play bagpipes, they play uillean pipes. They drink whiskey we drink whisky. What more do you want?!

I thought the Scots were basically Irish people but with less charm.

Besides we dont need charm, we have crabbit, and it endures

cant argue with that.

the Irish are very charming though.

specially since they stopped blowing up Marks and Spencers.

Both do unspeakable things to sheep, from my understanding...though only one of them is culinary.

The other involves wellington boots

I think you might be confused there Halfy with the Welsh.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
'So then it hasn't all been forgotten and they can turn up every solstice?'- Lance

It snot all been forgotten, or at least we are piecing bits back together through the evidence. And worshipping for Life at a site built for the Dead seems stupid to me, possibly offensive, and if the folk of that time were even a bit right, probably dangerous too.

I thought there was a wooden bit there that had been found? Or where they think a wooden bit was supposed to have been... they cant celebrate there cause its gone. Have you asked any of them what they are doing? Are they celebrating life and trying to connect with death too.... I assume the builders did something interesting there in olden days? How can we know they didn't celebrate life by partying in a space built around death?

Mrs Figg wrote:the Irish are very charming though.

specially since they stopped blowing up Marks and Spencers.

I think that depends on which Irish you meet. I spent 3 months with someone who used 'cunt' in common speech. Not sure charming is the right word for that.

I thought there was a wooden bit there that had been found?- Azriel


Yes they have located the wooden henge, and they have located the processional route between the two sites.
It corresponds in general with the thinking behind the Scottish earlier version, a wooden henge where life seems to have been celebrated, followed by a processional walk (in the Scottish case this seems to pass through an area with building dedicated to purification among other mysterious things- so for example there is a doorway where, at its base oil was put in and set alight- so anyone following the route through the doorway would be purified by flame- before continuing on to the stone circle and henge which celebrated the Dead.
Its also highly possible the Priests or equivalent communicated with the dead and conveyed information on eclipses, seasons, and when to plant and harvest crops- all this information can be gained from the astronomical information a stone circle provides. Saying its from the Dead just kept all the Priests in a cushy job.
The real secrets were mathematical, geometrical and astronomical.

So, I assume it is also possible that they celebrated both? The same as the tree hugging nut jobs last night?

You can answer Azriel again if you like...

They did celebrate both- but at two completely different locations built and designed for two different functions and separated by rights of purification.
What the new-age folks do is more like turning up in a graveyard during a funeral to hold a wedding.
Which is fine- but to then claim they are doing so because its what their ancestors did, when the evidence doesn't indicate they did that at all- thats a step too far!

But we dont know that! There is lots of speculation of what people think that they did based on little bits of evidence here and there, but it was 5000 years ago so....?

I think either claim is as far fetched as the other in terms of knowing who is right.

The discovers made in Scotland in the last five years or so are completely altering our understanding of this period and what was going on.

A very good place to start is with the Ness of Brodgar. Its the star prize in British archaeology right now and is turning up stuff never seen before from that period in Britain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ness_of_Brodgar

And that kinda backs up my point. We are finding stuff the completely alters our understanding. In 10 years, that may happen again. In 20 years, we may be back to what people thought when they looked at it 300 years ago. When it comes to these kinds of thing, there is very rarely an definitive, end answer.

Of course, I wouldn't dispute that.
But the very nature of the work means that we build on each instance of understanding, we add to the knowledge and try to eliminate any past mistakes, and any mistakes being made now will no doubt find themselves corrected in the future.
Nonetheless it doesn't change the fact that the overall body of accumulative work, errors accepting still builds a fairly strong picture towards certain outcomes being more likely than others.

Especially when we get gifted a gem of find like the Ness, in situ and undisturbed for 3000 years.

Lancebloke wrote:So, I assume it is also possible that they celebrated both? The same as the tree hugging nut jobs last night?

You can answer Azriel again if you like...

Tree hugging nut jobs I ask you !
Im stumped (pun ?) what Stonehenge was originally used for, how can we say for definite ? Some say sacrifices but, where are the bones ? Maybe it was a type of Parliament ? A place where 'kings' of the day would meet & plan ? I think as the ages have worn on nearly every generation have added & tweaked & come up with a romantic notion as to why is Stonehenge, or any other henge, purely because its something to hold on to ? It does draw people & people want to be seduced by magic feelings, a connection with mother Earth. From all the books there are on the market it seems to me thats what is really in the heart ?

I have nothing against folks having a spiritual journey, fining Gia or whatever it is works for them or seems to make sense of this mad thing called existence.
What I object to is the claim to some right base don nothing. To the folk who have gotten themselves officially recognised as Druids and get access to the stones not available to anyone else, when in fact they have no more claim to than anyone else.
There is also a matter of respect- to those who built it and to their beliefs and ceremony.
Its seems to me letting a bunch of new agers in to dance and party is a bit like in the future people using old churches for a rave.
I think even when the use of a place is lost, its importance as a marker in the evolving human psyche is worth respecting, as it is, without a bunch of bandwagon jumping folk coming along laying claim with what seems shockingly little research into the stones themselves.