Religous debates and questions [2]

azriel wrote:Thanks Halfy ! but um....Im more like the left side of the page these days !
 

Black and green?   

No ! bear like   

Azriel's avatar looks really beautiful.

Thankyou Richard, if only avatars were real reflections ! She is a pretty girl tho, & my avatars are my alter ego, a little "something" thats buried inside.away from the sometimes monotonous daily grind.  

Forumshire even exasperates me at times --- and I guess that's saying something..  


{{{As to you, Azriel, are you a Changeling, I thought we decided you were a cute furry puppet, not a gorgeous maiden?   And when are you coming to my house? I wouldn't mind seeing a few more of your.. err... manifestations..  I mean --- do you perchance include a naughty Norweigan nurse in your repertoire?  }}}

For you Orwell, I can be anything you want me to be !

   


Cute & fluffy one minute....... maids outfit the next ???

Mmmmm.... I'm just dying to see your bunny....   

   

 That's her...

{{{Now where is my incense and candles and Robbie Williams CD's, I wonder...? ... ... Mmmmmm... ... I wonder if she'd prefer me in my dressing gown with or without my pipe? }}}

Robbie Williams??   

Oh my. It was just a matter of time before the Religious debates thread went totally off the rails.   

I guess we all have idols we worship, Halfwise.    

Well this, sadly, rather seems to confirm a long held suspicion of mine, that Judiasm is inherently racist-

"The Norwegian daily Dagen last week reported that Norwegian Sandra Leikanger and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's son Yair are a couple, to which the office of Mr Netanyahu has responded by insisting they are only college classmates.
Leikanger is not Jewish, a fact that has sparked outrage in Israel.
The anxiety was expressed in an open letter to Yair Netanyahu by the Israeli organisation Lehava, which works to prevent assimilation (it) warned him that his grandparents "are turning over in their graves… they did not dream that their grandchildren would not be Jews".
"God forbid, if it's true, woe is me," says Aryeh Deri, leader of the Ultra-Orthodox Shas party, to a local radio station, lamenting the news that the prime minister's son was dating a non-Jew. "I don't like talking about private issues… but if it's true God forbid, then it's no longer a personal matter - it's the symbol of the Jewish people."
the prime minister's brother-in-law, Hagai Ben-Artzi, spoke out strongly on their affair, warning his nephew that if he doesn't end his relationship with Leikanger, it is as if he is spitting on the graves of his grandparents.

"From my point of view, if he does such a thing, I personally won't allow him to get near their graves," he told an Ultra-Orthodox website. "This is the most awful thing that is threatening and was a threat throughout the history of the Jewish people. More awful than leaving Israel is marriage with a gentile."- BBC

Seriously?   

Its this sort of weird crap that makes my blood boil ! 1= that huge sums of people not only believe in a 'God',that might or might not exist or has ever existed, but, allow this belief to dominate their entire life,to the point where they cant see the wood for the trees. Ive no argument whats so ever if you want Religion in your life, there are teachings that are good & remind us how to be but, when it becomes dangerous or dictatorial & supresses basic things like..love..?   & 2= some people can be SO fooking dumb arse ! As dear old Depeche Mode sang....People are people.......How narrow minded can a group of people be ?? Im stunned by it all the time. Does it matter if one of you is black ? or Oriental ? & the other is not. Does it matter if one partner is older than the other ? And why should different religions be a bother in a relationship ?? unless one is into child sacrifice or cannibalism  ? Surely the main thing is.. *let me just pop on my rose tinted specky-4-eyes !* that you are both decent,caring people, that you have no wish to hurt others, live a peaceably & lawful life ?? I shake my head in despair. An all loving God is being used as blackmail to get what the consensus wants & also hurting two people in the process. Good idea, that one  
Il probably read this again later & realise what a prat Ive made of myself again !   I think Im a bit of a reactionary. But I get niggled when your told you cant even SEE each other because one is a certain religion?

You're not a prat at all, unless I am too. It is scary to see how evil and cruel people can be while being convinced they are righteous and good.

If you're a prat then so am I Azriel (ok bad example!)

But replace Jew with any other race and its instantly clear-

Black person- He cant marry her she is not black- racist statement

White Person - He cant marry her she is not white- racist statement

Jewish person- He cant marry her she is not jew- racist statement

Thankyou guys ! I do doubt myself a lot & think I say stuff liable to stir up shit !
Hey, we're all prats together   
"The sect of the Inner prat" all welcome !   
"Order of The divine Prat" ?   
"The Church of St Prat & St Twat "!  

Marriage is not something to be taken lightly. Entire cultures were aligned based on the rite. A child inherits a lot more than their parents genes. I think we have become so devoid of faith in our own culture that we see little reason to protect it.

With respect to exclusivism, it is a pretty common belief throughout religion. It probably helped keep Judaism alive for 2500 years+. The early Christian community held the same doctrine until Saul came along. It persists in practically all cults, and is emphasised in various protestant denominations (Calvinistic circles in particular). 

Considering practically all monotheistic religions have their origins in Judaism, it could be argued they have the greatest claim to divine/natural selection - history itself favours them. I respect the belief system of anyone whose actions demonstrate its effectiveness. Though personally I don't think it works that way, but rather those cultures and philosophical systems of the greatest good persist in time. The rest die hard, and the unnatural rots away. This includes those enshrined artefacts of the rampant social experiment of the 21st century, when they tried to commercialise a 4 billion year old instinct. The mitigation of which all culture is based, to the instillment of our dignity.

Yep, there's a reason the Jews have remained distinct for thousands of years. I'd say it has a lot to do with the dietary laws: hard to be married to someone who doesn't eat the same food as you.

But the reactions of the Israelis are not along practical lines. Eventually practical wisdom becomes ensnared by 'morality', followed shortly by rigidly offensive boneheadedness.

And marriage is not tied to one religion or culture and predates all or existing religions. Wedding rings came about in Ancient Egypt for example, well before that johnny-come-late- Yaweh bloke showed up.

I'm probably going to regret wading into this discussion, but...

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well this, sadly, rather seems to confirm a long held suspicion of mine, that Judiasm is inherently racist-

Those reactions definitely sound racist (or at least religionist, depending on how you define Jews on the spectrum of ethno-religiousity) to me, but I'm not seeing the "inherent" part here.

richardbrucebaxter wrote:Marriage is not something to be taken lightly. Entire cultures were aligned based on the rite. A child inherits a lot more than their parents genes. I think we have become so devoid of faith in our own culture that we see little reason to protect it.

What do you consider to be the biggest current threat(s) to marriage?

Inherent because it seems to be viewed as a necessary and an essential bit it part of being a 'proper' Jew.
I have known of two people who converted to Judiasm but were not born a Jew and they have long complained to me that they are treated as a second class citizens and not as a 'proper' Jew by those born to Jewish families.
Its seems therefore an inherent trait of the religion.

What do you consider to be the biggest current threat(s) to marriage?

THEM DRATTED HOMYSEXUALS OF COURSE! Couple of fellers living together and fornicating a couple states away going to ruin my marriage!   

(just kidding)

I know that question was directed at Richard, but I think the question needs to be refined.  By 'marriage' do you mean 'till death do us part' or do you mean a long term commitment with kids as part of the bargain?

People used to hang together longer because of cultural stigmas against divorce; but now people are breaking up even if they have kids.  I wish some of the social stigma would return about not breaking up at least until the kids have become adults. After that I'd call the deal optional.

I've written about his elsewhere, but I think marriage should have a firm sacred commitment to the kids.  I don't give a rat's ass about what people do who don't have kids.  This might make me something of a puritan about protected sex, since kids are a serious matter.  No problems with free sex, just not carefree sex.

So two adults who are married, but have come to hate and loathe each other, who fight and scream and yell consistently, maybe even get violent should have to stay together just because they have kids? Dont see the sense in that- its not doing the kids any good to be in such an environment.