Re: Manly Thread - Boys Only

[Mrs Figg]

''I do agree with Petty that the male tribe tends to confront problems directly more often than the female tribe, and that men of this type often are clueless or feel betrayed when women take a more "subtle" path to confrontation.)'' Dave

I think that is less to do with women being naturally bitchier, but more a case of a mix of biology and social restraints. Its always since time began been easier for men to confront things head on, because they were allowed to do so, they used their natural physical superiority and strength. Women have had the 'Seen and not heard' bullshit for centuries. 'A woman is not feminine if she shows anger, a woman is not a real lady if she shouts, a woman should Always defer to the Master of the house. (obviously in some countries this still applies) so women have never had an outlet for confornting things head on in an open and honest manner, because she was unwomanly if she dared. women have been burnt at the stake for being Nags, harridans, any woman that tried to treat a man in an argument as an equal was shut down by patriarchy.
thus woman has to develop subtle methods, use her brain, its mental supremacy over brute force. She has needed to keep her wits about her, and being a bitch is the result. Being a bitch normally means in manspeak, she is mouthy, opinionated, headstrong, she has got the better of you in an argument, she has out manoevered you, she has used emotional blackmail, because she cant use her fists like the boys. Men are just as jealous just as predatory and just as possessive as women, its just that men that are jealous end up putting their partner in hospital or bury her under the patio or throw acid in her face. Womens jealousy means that another woman gets talked about behind her back, a few nasty glances, a load of silent treatment or at the worst office bullying and general cattyness. I can deal with women being jealous, men being jealous on the other hand is just fucking Dangerous.

[Pettytyrant101]

Being a bitch normally means in manspeak, she is mouthy, opinionated, headstrong-Mrs Figg

Whilst I dont disagree with your general premise regards women and mens roles and how they have been allowed to express themselves it doesnt explain womens behaviour towards each other- which can be absolutely horrible, ruthless, devious and underhand- I have watched supposed best friends undermine each other to third parties in a harsh fashion.
Unless you are saying that women have become bitchy by default and so treat each other this way too?

[Mrs Figg]

''absolutely horrible, ruthless, devious and underhand'' Petty

Men are just as horrible, ruthless, devious and underhand. I would say men are a hundred times more ruthless and horrible to each other. Not only that, but when they are ruthless they are applauded by all concerned as being a good buisnesman, the Donald Trumps of this world are lauded as 'good guys to be admired, if a woman was as ruthless she is called Lady Macbeth.

[Garek the Guard]

"Women are crazy bitches. And I can say that, because I'm a feminist." - some guy who isn't a feminist

[Pettytyrant101]

I am still largely talking withint the confines of everyday personal releaionships Mrs Figg.
I have watched a mother and her friends teach their son to say "Daddy's a bastard" whilst they all laughed when he did (I walked out the staffroom on that one in disgust and got a mouth full of abuse for doing so), and I have watched as women have undermined one another to the point of nervous breakdowns.
I think women have to be more ruthless than men, to touch on something Norc mentioned about Viking women being the absolute rulers in the home- I think the reason for that being common (was the same here anyway) is when it comes right down to it- women are the ones who are really capable of making the really hard decisions compared to men- we have a tendency to try to avoid hard decisions.

[azriel]

Will this bunker do Petty ?
I dont necessarily agree with the make up statement ? Girls going clubbing, yeah, But, IF I wear make up its usually for a special occassion & its for ME, to look nice ? (at least to look HUMAN!) its really my OWN vanity,not for anyone else. And if theres cameras about, (which I hate) I know I look crap as Im not photogenic ! vanity again. High heels are a no-go! so is all the other accutrements. Its a sell tactic, whether its cars, perfume or an Ikea kitchen ! If someone has a better figure than me, better looks or lovely silky hair, yes, I do feel, not jealous but, envious I guess. Then I feel less worthy in myself, I dont feel "womanly" or feminine enough ? & then I feel..."who'd want me?"..then I get down in the dumps & eat lots of chocolate to compensate. If I were a man for one day Id love to feel the feelings & gain the thoughts you lot do ?! The "whod want me" syndrome has obviously been drummed into the female psyche since cavemen stood up. Any woman,thru the ages, that comes up with a wining idea is taken less seriously than if a man had thought of it, why ? Its changing now, but some men do seem to act as though this is a "man's World" & women are here as a necessity ?

[Mrs Figg]

I am still largely talking withint the confines of everyday personal releaionships Mrs Figg.
I have watched a mother and her friends teach their son to say "Daddy's a bastard" whilst they all laughed when he did (I walked out the staffroom on that one in disgust and got a mouth full of abuse for doing so), and I have watched as women have undermined one another to the point of nervous breakdowns.
I think women have to be more ruthless than men, to touch on something Norc mentioned about Viking women being the absolute rulers in the home- I think the reason for that being common (was the same here anyway) is when it comes right down to it- women are the ones who are really capable of making the really hard decisions compared to men- we have a tendency to try to avoid hard decisions.

you have obviously known some very horrible women. I think its a case of avoiding small suffocating 'worlds' like offices and places where people jostle and power struggle every day. small people in small worlds with small minds. each trying to be top dog or top bitch. I have experienced it as well in offices, but I find that its in places where there is a certain type of person, people in jobs where their whole identity and life is centered round petty jealousy, spite disappointment and thwarted ambition. thats why I wont and never will work in offices ever again, I wont play by their rules.

[David H]

You need to put my remarks on makeup in context. It's quite rare out here in the country. My Mom only wore a little lipstick when she went to town or church and took it off as soon as she was home. She acted differently then too. It was her Public Face, not my Mom. Women with little or no makeup have always just seemed more honest to me, probably because of that.

If it makes a person feel better about themselves, that's a good thing. Blending into a culture can be a good thing too, and I can see how makeup for a woman can be a powerful tool if that's what others are doing. Out here though it makes as much sense as mucking out the barn in high heels.

[David H]

you have obviously known some very horrible women. I think its a case of avoiding small suffocating 'worlds' like offices and places where people jostle and power struggle every day. small people in small worlds with small minds. each trying to be top dog or top bitch. I have experienced it as well in offices, but I find that its in places where there is a certain type of person, people in jobs where their whole identity and life is centered round petty jealousy, spite disappointment and thwarted ambition. thats why I wont and never will work in offices ever again, I wont play by their rules.

[Pettytyrant101]

I do agree on the small space thing- my experiences with female bitchyness comes from over 20 years working in a female dominated profession with between 4-8 women on a shift with me (depending on shift).
And I certanly got a rude awkening and some eye opening experiences under those circumstances that certainly underminded any notions I might have had about the gentler sex.
It worse than politcs for positioning, conniving, manouvering, alliance making and breaking ect


David- my mother was the same when I was a kid- she put a 'face' on when she had to do something social but day to day never wore makeup.

[Mrs Figg]

I think there is a lot of media and social pressure in urban and city environments for women to wear make-up and dress well. you just have to watch tv or read magazines to see stars vilified for going to the shops without full slap, you get Before and After photos, or female celebrities on the beach showing their cellulite. There are even tv programms dedicated to make-overs. I accidently saw one the other day called Your Style in His Hands. My mind boggled.
according to the press:

''It goes like this: A male partner nominates his shockingly tasteless wife/girlfriend for a him-directed makeover. She’s recently had your kids, you see; or given up her life to follow you to the country/city; and somehow, despite all your expectations, she’s not living up to them. What a miserable bitch. How dare she not dress like a sparrow legged 15 year old underwear model. How dare she succumb to life in the slow lane, surrounded by the unfamiliar and terrifying while you go off to work? Is this really what you get for giving up the pub and internet dating! Shame on the bitch.
But all is not lost. By simply relinquishing her private life; by putting her insecurities – and body – on display, and by making a bit of a tit of yourself, you get 5, 000 to spend on recreating that babe you plied with Bacardi Breezers way back in the day. You don’t have to shift your mindset or ask her what you can do to make her life easier, or help out a bit more, or put your blobby bod on display, or respect her as a fookin equal. Nope, all you have to do is get her a makeover while you remain your egotistical, self-involved self. And you get to do it on global television.
yay!
And boy oh boy do you then get to pat yourself on the back. Because you are the hero, my man. You are lauded, applauded and televised as the man who cares; who gets back the woman ‘I first fell in love with’. Of course, this makeover will revolutionise your life: you get the hot girl revisited and she gets pretty frocks and fuck-me shoes. My god, that’s really going to change everything. She now knows what pleases you; what turns you on; what’s been turning you on while she’s been breeding your children; changing her life while you suffer on, escaping to work and coming home to that dull, exhausted, bewildered woman dressed by the leftovers from the grocery budget''.
cool.
''Or, more accurately, “Throw Away All Your Wife’s Clothes, Buy New Ones That Make Her Feel Uncomfortable And Are Only Appropriate For Summer And In So Doing Assert Financial Control Over Her, Reinforce The Idea That She Needs Your Approval For All Her Outfits And Social Outings And Make Her Feel Even More Shit About Herself Than She Does Already Probably All Thanks To Being Married To A Cunt Like You”

((I still watch it though, theres some nice frocks. ))

[Pettytyrant101]

Well I think there is enough evidence in from all sides for the manly thread to reach a consensus, and its this-

Due to social, media, peer, biological and historic pressures women are a bit bonkers.

Exactly what I always suspected.

[Norc]

When I meet a woman in makeup, I interpret it as tribal markings. It says "I am a member of a powerful tribe, and our relationship will be along formal tribal rules."

Women who were raised in these cultures can often tell another woman's whole history by reading the tribal markings painted on her face.

I believe that makeup within the context of dating is often referred to a "war paint" by those who wear it. There are equivalent markings for the male tribe.

i laughed but FUCK YOU! THAT'S NOT TRUE!

[Norc]

You need to put my remarks on makeup in context. It's quite rare out here in the country. My Mom only wore a little lipstick when she went to town or church and took it off as soon as she was home. She acted differently then too. It was her Public Face, not my Mom. Women with little or no makeup have always just seemed more honest to me, probably because of that.

If it makes a person feel better about themselves, that's a good thing. Blending into a culture can be a good thing too, and I can see how makeup for a woman can be a powerful tool if that's what others are doing. Out here though it makes as much sense as mucking out the barn in high heels.

i hate make-up. but i do wear it cus i look shit without.

[Norc]

i need to read through this when i am bothered, it seems like something that could turn my crabbit on

also.. it's fun seeing Spock discussing the male/femal gender..

[David H]

i look shit without.

No you don't.

Wear it if it's fun, but don't ever feel you have to.

A natural smile and honest eyes can make any face beautiful.

And those aren't things you can paint on.

[David H]

also.. it's fun seeing Spock discussing the male/femal gender..

It is fascinating.

[Pettytyrant101]

Reading back through I forgot to reply to this-

women have always done the picking.- Norc

To which I thought 'tell that to Ghengis Khan'- which led me to think about the reasons why history is littered with great male leaders and far fewer female, and that it may be about structuring to a degree.

Norc also said-

'and how can u say competing to be chosen isn't the same as competing with each other? i wasn't thinking hand to hand combat, i mean competing with other males to get the female. it's the same thing.'

How its structured is different.
Going back to tribal needs, the need to cooperate in the hunt, then in agriculture, then in construction and running of villages, towns, and eventually cities.
Males it seems to me, once a clear dominant leader arises (good or bad, explaining both Churhcill and Hitler for example) find where in the 'tribe' they then slot into, we are only in competion with anyone in 'our slot' or if your ambitous, the slot above.
Its essentially cooperative, with competion limited by the need to cooperate.
That seems to me quite different to me from how female society structures itself.

[Norc]

i look shit without.

No you don't.

Wear it if it's fun, but don't ever feel you have to.

A natural smile and honest eyes can make any face beautiful.

And those aren't things you can paint on.

haha, you don't know that dear. but thanx

[Norc]

Reading back through I forgot to reply to this-

women have always done the picking.- Norc

To which I thought 'tell that to Ghengis Khan'- which led me to think about the reasons why history is littered with great male leaders and far fewer female, and that it may be about structuring to a degree. kinda speaking on viking-terms, dunno how the rest of the world felt it, but here the woman ruled the house and ultimately, the man too, so in reality, women ruled, men were just their face outwards.

Norc also said-

'and how can u say competing to be chosen isn't the same as competing with each other? i wasn't thinking hand to hand combat, i mean competing with other males to get the female. it's the same thing.'

How its structured is different. NO!
Going back to tribal needs WE'RE NOT TRIBAL!, the need to cooperate in the hunt, then in agriculture, then in construction and running of villages, towns, and eventually cities.
Males it seems to me, once a clear dominant leader arises (good or bad, explaining both Churhcill and Hitler for example) find where in the 'tribe' they then slot into, we are only in competion with anyone in 'our slot' or if your ambitous, the slot above.
Its essentially cooperative, with competion limited by the need to cooperate.
That seems to me quite different to me from how female society structures itself.

[Amarië]

And how does female society structure itself?

[Norc]

yes, how exactly?

[David H]

haha, you don't know that dear. but thanx

I know that you protested when Halfwise used some cute candid photos of you, so clearly you are not being objective about this. I stand by my opinion.

[Norc]

:3 aww, you're so nice ^^

[Pettytyrant101]

And how does female society structure itself?- Amarie

No idea, absolutely not got a clue, thats the point. But not like what I outlined for basic male behaviour structure- if it operated the male way we'd be able to see what was going on- the fact men have had since the begining of time a huge neon lit question mark hanging over the idea of 'woman' shows we dont structure the same way.
You lot wouldnt be a mystery to us if it was the same.

WE'RE NOT TRIBAL!- Norc (loudly )

We are not special or unique either- we are first and foremost mammals, same as all the rest when it gets right down to basics. And we structure ourselves just the same- human society is just an over complex verion of what you will see among groups of great apes, every mammal group has social structures (and lots of other animal types too), and usually male and female perform different functions in it.
I see no evidence human are any different, quite the opposite.