Books!

Have another drink and look again.

halfwise wrote:

Somewhere online the two versions are presented side by side.  Much easier to see the workings that way.

This?:

http://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html

halfwise wrote:Have another drink and look again.

Of tea perhaps.

Forest Shepherd wrote:I prefer the new version greatly. I like how Bilbo's actions aren't really quite honest. And faced with the desperation and rage of Gollum... Well it gives Bilbo more reason to keep his ring secret from the others, this lingering sense of guilt. Surrounding his finding of the ring with near-death and horrible circumstances is also quite appropriate considering it's revealed nature.
And, of course, it's far scarier the new way. I listened to the audio-tape before I read the book growing up, and hearing Gollum cry out in the echoing tunnels, "We HAAATES IT! WE HAAATES IT FOREVER!!" gave me shivers!

I agree I prefer the new version but there really isn't anything wrong with the original version either. All the new text does is tie the Hobbit into LOTR by having Gollum not wanting to give away the ring.

Somewhere online the two versions are presented side by side. Much easier to see the workings that way.

Yeah that would have been much easier to paste a link to a page, I actually pulled out my book and copied from it. First time I have touched those pages in almost a decade. Last time that book was touched I had a literature professor look at it to see what I had. So it felt kind of nice although I'm always paranoid I'll harm the book by touching it.

In broadening our individual reality, CS Lewis argued, great books manage to contain and console our most overwhelming emotions:

Literary experience heals the wound, without undermining the privilege, of individuality. There are mass emotions which heal the wound; but they destroy the privilege. In them our separate selves are pooled and we sink back into sub-individuality. But in reading great literature I become a thousand men and yet remain myself. Like a night sky in the Greek poem, I see with a myriad eyes, but it is still I who see. Here, as in worship, in love, in moral action, and in knowing, I transcend myself; and am never more myself than when I do.

http://www.brainpickings.org/2014/11/26/c-s-lewis-literature-reading-books/

malickfan wrote:

halfwise wrote:

Somewhere online the two versions are presented side by side.  Much easier to see the workings that way.

This?:

http://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html

Yes! Really a nice way to compare the two, and the division into paragraph blocks helps as well.

Sinister71 wrote:
I agree I prefer the new version but there really isn't anything wrong with the original version either. All the new text does is tie the Hobbit into LOTR by having Gollum not wanting to give away the ring.

"Nothing wrong?"
Well sure, but that's not relevant. The newer version is more interesting and far more suspenseful. The fact that it stands as the event that shapes everything else through the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings proves its pivotal nature. Its importance cannot be understated, and rewriting it so that Gollum is a more tortured and wretched creature and Bilbo cheats at the Riddle game fundamentally changes the repercussions of his finding the ring.

Forest Shepherd wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:
I agree I prefer the new version but there really isn't anything wrong with the original version either. All the new text does is tie the Hobbit into LOTR by having Gollum not wanting to give away the ring.

"Nothing wrong?"
Well sure, but that's not relevant. The newer version is more interesting and far more suspenseful. The fact that it stands as the event that shapes everything else through the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings proves its pivotal nature. Its importance cannot be understated, and rewriting it so that Gollum is a more tortured and wretched creature and Bilbo cheats at the Riddle game fundamentally changes the repercussions of his finding the ring.

it gave Gollum a more sinister side but didn't completely rewrite the entire character for me. I had already read the altered version long before i ever got the original.I found the original an interesting take on it which really didn't change the character one way of the other for me. As far as Bilbo lying or cheating, I really don't see that he did either. He asked Gollum a question out of desperation, which Gollum basically accepted. So he did what Gollum demanded, even if fear got the better of him. he asked the first thing that popped into his head. He answered Gollum truthfully he did not lie, he merely didn't tell Gollum he found something that belonged to him. Do I think its dishonest... Of course I do. its a typical didn't ask so I'm not going to tell scenario, I have teenagers I get it all the time.BUT in a situation of life or death where does the moral compass go? Towards the truth or towards life and keeping on doing it?I have never been in a life or death scenario like that but would think my self preservation skills would keep me alive. I really don't read it when I read the book as the ring controlling or altering Bilbo's mind. Not even on a subtle level at this point in the story. Maybe after his prolonged use of it or wearing it for extended periods of time like Thranduil's halls and the woodland realm but at the instance of his finding it. I don't think so.I think that was something that happened over time. But that is the beauty of interpretation everyone doesn't see things exactly the same.

Bilbo certainly cheated at the Riddle game as generally accepted. I may be imagining this but I think Tolkien admitted as such.

But anyway, nevermind that, I have this book in my mind the title of which I cannot remember.
I was in Edinburgh a couple years ago in a rental house, and found a book on one of the shelves, the cover of which grabbed my attention. It showed a number of medieval soldiery marching through a desolate landscape. In the sky above flew a monstrous looking creature. It was reddish from what I remember, and had a devilish appearance. I think it had a face, and wings and arms and legs, but there may have been something distinctly strange about its appearance that I cannot recall.

Anyway, the creature's name was, I believe, the title of the book. It was something long and strange-sounding. The Valcontrex, or the Wyxtereen or the Vilyverin or something strange. I seem to remember that the author was Welsh, which would help locate him, but he didn't show up in a cursory search.

The story itself was typical fantasy. There were brothers, or something, in this city. There was contention in the city, and strife, because a foriegn army was marching against them to besiege them. The one brother ended up traveling to this lair in the mountains where the creature on the cover lived. The creature was the strangest part of the story, as it had come from somewhere else long ago and had once had a mate that had died or was missing or sleeping or something. Anyway, it was monstrous, but it had the ability to craft things with its hands (that it had lost??). It's blood, or some liquid, had strange effects on humans, and a large amount of it is gathered by the brother who befriends the creature. The blood-stuff is used in strange experiments by some evil douche back in town to malform people or combine them with animals or something.
Eventually the foreign army arrives and there is a siege. The creature thing plays a part, something or other happens.
I'll keep looking, but I can't find it yet!!

Edit:
Needless to say, enormous thanks to anyone who can recall what I'm talking about.

??? Its called "A Dance with Dragons" by George RR Martin

It does sound somewhat familiar, Forest. I thought I'd find it by flipping through the chapter on early fantasy authors in "A look behind the Lord of the Rings" by Lin Carter, but came up dry.

Oh well, it might show up.

Game of Thrones Azriel? Have you even read that!?

Maybe she's trying to figure out how it fits with the book. Looks like Jon Snow looking at an image of...who? I can't correspond it to anything in the book myself.

is it the Viriconium by John M Harrison?

Sent my novel off to a professional book editor today to help me tidy the whole thing up. Hopefully will have finished the manuscript by end of April... I will have some time when I am away if I can get wifi to pick up my emails.

Ooh, very intriguing Lance hope it all goes well, good luck

Hope things go well with the publisher, Lance!

Mrs Figg wrote:is it the Viriconium by John M Harrison?

No, but thanks for the attempt. It's in a medieval-type alternate world fantasy setting. There are only humans, that I know of, and the weird dragon-type devil-creature-things (they don't behave like devils, they simply look similar).

can you remember the name of any of the characters?

good luck Lance

Eldorion wrote:Hope things go well with the publisher, Lance!

Not at publishing stage yet. Have sent to a professional editor first as it is my first attempt to write a novel. They are going to do a developmental edit for me, basically making sure that each sentence, chapter and the whole book works and making lots of suggestions on how to tighten it up.

Hopefully after that I can look at the publishing angle... probably self publishing... however you go about doing that!

Mrs Figg wrote:can you remember the name of any of the characters?

No, not really.

Recently started reading The Hyperion Cantos.

Barely 100 pages in so far, but I'm Loving it.

Best of luck with the Novel Lance!  

Forest Shepherd wrote:

Mrs Figg wrote:can you remember the name of any of the characters?

No, not really.

Forest. It's clear what you must do. You must haul yourself back to that little hidden away bungalow in Scotland and put this to rest. You've let it eat away at you for far too long, and I fear it may consume you. Don't wait: this is urgent. I don't like to think what may become of you if you let it slowly devour your psyche.

And think, you'll finally taste Bucky!