Pics of places that look like places from the films, or are just nice. [2]

For me, thats the shame of it. You get a well respected actor, give him the idea of a part that SHOULD stretch the ability, get said actor jeed up & then spring a luke warm script under his nose. John Noble isnt a 'here today, gone tomorrow' actor ! He could have made a great Denethor if giving the right guidance & unleashed the reins.

Yeah, he could easily have portrayed very well the complex, tragic, noble man broken down by grief and despair and at the last finally stripped even of his dignity.
And his death should be horrific, tragic and defiant as his pride is all he is left with, not played out as an action sequence and for spectacle.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Yup, thats pretty spot on if you ask me.

Good actor, great sets (the throne room is one of my favourites in the whole trilogy for set design) but completely the wrong character.

totally dont agree it was the wrong character. it was a different character. They altered him so much to differentiate him from Theoden. Two crusty old warriors in danger of losing their kingdoms would have been too samey samey on screen. They made the logical choice to make him less heroic than Theoden. Its good cinema, they chose the right actor and he played the part with gusto. I really think its a great performance. Considering how faithful they were with most other characters the changes to Denethor is acceptable (to me)

Theoden and Denethor in the books couldn't be more different. One rises from senility into nobility, the other descends from nobility into madness.

There was no reason to overplay the weakest parts of the Denethor character. It wouldn't have been hard to keep the fuller character arc, and in fact they could almost have done it with the lines they had, but Jeremy Noble was misdirected. A few key changes in the lines (plus cutting out the Pippin beacon lighting scene and Gandalf's whacking him on the head scene), with proper direction and they would have had it. I think Denethor was sacrificed to an urge to glorify Gandalf and Pippin.

The only scene I would have changed is the whacking over the head bit. Apart from that I think its fab. In the films both Denethor and Theoden look on Gandalf as a Stormcrow come to make trouble, he isnt welcome by either, but Theoden comes to realize Gandalf is right and Denethor refuses all help. It may have been put more crudely in the film due to lack of time, but its the same message.

vaguely, except in the books the contrast is also made by Denethor openly welcoming Gandalf, though with some crusty comments, asking him to council while clearly making the point who the boss is, etc. Theoden first rejects Gandalf outright, then does a 180 after being cured. Very different all along.

I see the point about two old men who accept Gandalf, but I think the grudging respect Denethor shows Gandalf with the verbal wrestling matches in the books would have been far more interesting. They had some of the same lines in the movies, but had changed the dynamic so much it seemed like put-downs rather than wrestling matches.

Also lacking is Gandalf's respect for Denethor, even if they dont get on.
But the changes they made then cause their own absurdities.
Such as why no one else challenges his rule when he is clearly not doing anything at all to defend his people or the city.
Just one example, in the book the women, the old and the young (bar a few exceptions) have been sent out of the city for safety by Denethor.
In the film the women and children are not even evacuated from the first circle, even after there has been an entire days fighting and assaults on the wall and its on fire!
Its preposterous- and worse, its not how people would act, even without orders women would not be that stupid as just to stay there and wait to be killed or set on fire. Not when there are another 6, perfectly safe levels of the city to be in.
And when you are relying for cheap tension and horror (the only reason the women are there is just so they can be seen running and screaming, dying in the streets when the orcs get in) on the audience not noticing the characters are not acting in a human way there is a problem.

I think you are expecting them to transpose wholesale every detail from the book. I on the other hand can understand the visual shorthand they use to put across these ideas. I dont need things spelled out. I get it without blokes standing round maps and detailed evacuation plans. Its slows everything down and makes it tedious.

Oh blimey, sorry Figgy ! I think I might be an exception to the rule ? I quite like seeing the meat on the bones, I like the strategy leading up to things, I enjoy what is going on, behind the scenes style. I actually wouldnt mind seeing the events leading up to.....etc. Trouble is, where do you condense or pull the plug ? LOTRs is a long story, (as if we didnt know that !) & to imprint it on celluloid for the masses, who may or may not have read Tolkien, is going to be tricky-dicky because of time restraints. How can you get enough in & still make sense ?............(dont ask Peter Jackson!)......sorry, couldnt resist !    Peejeers went for fantasy spectacle at the expense of book sense. What he gave me was NOT enough to understand or judge either Denethor OR Theodon, I felt bugger all for Denethor as I thought he had certainly lost his grip & the best thing was to kick him off the throne as soon as possible, get Aragorn on instead. THEN, I read the books properly, something I hadnt done for quite a few years. And its gonna be the same for everyone else who hasnt read Tolkien.

He certainly went for spectacle at the expense of the book in The Hobbit, but I dont think that is true of LOTR in any way. Its too big a book not to consense a lot, there just wasnt the time. If you want all the 'meat' a tv series like Game of Thrones is better, you can afford to get in every small detail, take your time over character development, in a tv series over many hours you dont need shortcuts or cyphers.

But then, I really liked John Noble & Bernard Hill playing Denethor & Theoden, I really did. Both are good actors, both can give the parts clout. Just wish the Gandy-bash-skull scene was axed ! Its so cringey ! All it does is Make Gandalf look like a know-it-all, I mean why he has anyone help him when clearly he can do it all himself ? & it makes look Denethor look like a aging,lonely fool who deserves to get slapped as he's obviously not in control of even his bladder thanks to Alzheimers.

Oh fook ! dont you get me ruffled over The Hobbshit !! What a shower of shit,that will go down in cinematic history as a "nearly there", border line turkey, a "what was he thinking ?" moment ! Ah bugger, Im hearing voices again ! AArrrhhh !

it was full on turkey.   

azriel wrote:

This doesn't really work for me, doesn't give me the rustic/otherwordly feeling I get from M.E's forests.

Building a House into a tree? What is this supposed to remind you of? A rich anti social midget Ent house?

I think it's cool, even if not Middle Earth.

No, its NOTHING like M:E, its nothing like anything peejeers came up with, I just liked it   Im a faerie kinda person  

talking of meat, Denethor reminds me of an OXO cube. They condensed him down into a dense dry husk, all the juices gone, its like they took the worst aspects of his character condensing made his flavour stronger madder and badder. All his negativity made stronger. dunno if that makes sense. depends on your taste.

Yeah they did. But they left out the good parts, which could have played along.

I like OXO cubes...

I really like that Chris   Now,Instead of those little buildings, you had a Hobbit house or Inn ?