Pics of places that look like places from the films, or are just nice. [2]

Pettytyrant101 wrote: One of a once mighty kingdom gathering its remaining strength for a fight it knows it cant win.

Exactly the mood that was created in the film.   

Except we dont see them gathering their strength- no men from the coast, no Prince of Dol Amroth, no fat guy. Just one city run by an obvious madman who refuses to make any preparations.
Completely the opposite of the book where Denethor is preparing the city by calling into the city walls all the men he can from the across Gondor.

Obviously..  

(That's a joke, by the way. You guys carry on.   )

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Except we dont see them gathering their strength- no men from the coast, no Prince of Dol Amroth, no fat guy. Just one city run by an obvious madman who refuses to make any preparations.
Completely the opposite of the book where Denethor is preparing the city by calling into the city walls all the men he can from the across Gondor.

so basically you wanted the film to be an extra hour long. Because thats how long it would have taken to set up all this unecessary expo.

Well putting aside that in my edit I have two hours or so to play about with compared to PJ's EE edit, so time wouldnt be an issue, it still need not take up much time even with PJ's bloated cut.

You could at a push do without Beregrond and his son and instead have the reinforcements arriving and the wains leaving with the women and old and children when Gandalf and Pippin arrive- the whole thing could be explained by Gandalf in a few lines of dialogue as they ride into the city.
That way you maintain the sense from the book of a city in preparation for war and you give the viewer a sense that Gondor consists of more than one city.

Lose Gothmog (narratively the bad guys shouldn't have more Captains and battle discussing than the good guys, and as the bad guy strategy is masterminded by Sauron they dont need him) and replace him with the scene where the Captains discuss the defence strategy.
That way you reinforce the notion of a kingdom and that all the last, best strength of men is in one place and you restore Denethor's character to be less of a crazed mad man.

Job done and probably all no more than five minutes added.

"Lose Gothmog (narratively the bad guys shouldn't have more Captains and battle discussing than the good guys, and as the bad guy strategy is masterminded by Sauron they dont need him) and replace him with the scene where the Captains discuss the defence strategy." - Petty

Reading this knowing how much better RotK works without Gothmog (having seen your edit) makes me sad they didn't do exactly what you say

Ringdrotten wrote:"Lose Gothmog (narratively the bad guys shouldn't have more Captains and battle discussing than the good guys, and as the bad guy strategy is masterminded by Sauron they dont need him) and replace him with the scene where the Captains discuss the defence strategy." - Petty

Reading this knowing how much better RotK works without Gothmog (having seen your edit) makes me sad they didn't do exactly what you say

Reading this makes me sad remembering back to how incredibly boring the landscape around Minas Tirith looked!
I had just finished the book, and although things were slightly confused in my young mind, I was certainly not expecting such plainness.

Plainness- good word for the design there.

Grey, brown and drab are three other words that spring to mind.

The sad truth is that beyond the look of the actual city there is nothing else recognisable from the book about the Realm of Gondor in the film.
Its effectively a completely different place, ran differently, and preparing (or not) for war completely differently and its defended (or not) differently.

Book Denethor has lit the beacons, called in the reinforcements, got scouts out in the field gathering information, has been repairing and manning the Rammas, preparing sorties to shelter back to the walls the wounded, holds Councils and plans strategy and he sleeps in his armour as a symbol of his readiness to defend his people.
His death when it comes is a poignant tragedy, not a ludicrous Hollywood style on fire over the top sprint that the audience is meant to cheer and feel good about.

Its unrecognisable as the same place as the book.

I agree about Gondor - the plains should be full of life, as should Minas Tirith, which looks more like a great fortress than a city with levels and walls.

As impressive as the miniatures for Minas Tirith were, too, it really was not big enough to be the capital of a major realm like Gondor. My brother has been reading the book for the first time lately and he noticed that himself. He was also disappointed/bemused to find out just how much the films had compressed the geography of Gondor and especially the Pelennor.

Yes, somehow they managed to make it all seem very small.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

Lose Gothmog (narratively the bad guys shouldn't have more Captains and battle discussing than the good guys, and as the bad guy strategy is masterminded by Sauron they dont need him) and replace him with the scene where the Captains discuss the defence strategy.
That way you reinforce the notion of a kingdom and that all the last, best strength of men is in one place and you restore Denethor's character to be less of a crazed mad man.

Job done and probably all no more than five minutes added.

You mean add a load of blokes standing around looking at maps. Boring. I prefer Gothmog, far more entertaining.

Well seeing as there is just such a scene in the book , and in it Denethor orders Faramir to Osgiliath, and Tolkien wrote it, I dont see why it would be boring at all- its  a moment of high drama.
As it is PJ has Denethor asking if there are no other captains to an empty room with no other captains in it   

And putting a 'round a map' scene in here would be far more natural than the shoehorned in Faramir map Pj has, where he just points out things for the viewers benefit to bring them up to speed.
Now thats cluncky and thats in those perfect films of yours.

yawn. theres nothing more tedious than blokes looking at maps. Its a cliche and its not good cinema.

But the scene would not be about the map- it would be as it is in the book about sending Faramir to man the outpost at Osgiliath. Thats the drama of the scene.
Them also briefly discussing the tactics leading to this is a natural way to both inform the viewer and to build the tension to the suicidal nature of the mission Faramir is being sent on, heightened further by the warning voices of the other Captains in the meeting who Denethor overrules.

And at the same time it shows Gondor has a Council of War with more than just Denethor running everything.

Such a scene would achieve lot- lessen Denethors seeming madness, make more sense of the politics of Gondor, indicate that there is more to Gondor than one city, demonstrate that not everyone is in agreement, explain the battlefield to the viewer clearly, and provide the emotional drama necessary to drive and justify the scene.

nope

Sorry Figg, no matter how much you might not want to admit it or pretend its not so, the portrayal of Gondor and of Denethor in the film is poor indeed and bears little resemblance to the book.

He make a fair point! Hard to argue with that.

I for one felt that the soldiery of Gondor (except Boromir, and possibly Faramir) were a bunch of cringing meat-shields with a general affinity for being dropped off of tall structures in the talons of Fell-beasts.
I mean sure, in the book they have some bravery issues in the face of the Nazgul, but c'mon, enough is enough. Show some badassery Jackson!

For being a bunch of ugly-ass Nordic hairy-type people (except Eomer, and Eowyn sometimes) the Rohirrim were much cooler in the movies, and had more screen time!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Sorry Figg, no matter how much you might not want to admit it or pretend its not so, the portrayal of Gondor and of Denethor in the film is poor indeed and bears little resemblance to the book.

sorry Petty. I am 100% sure Gondor and Denethor were brilliantly portrayed in the films.

 

 

Except for the wide dusty plain Gondor looked superb. But they had screwed up the character of Denethor so much they put him in a fur coat. The leader of the bulwark of the west in posture of war dressed in a fur coat. Sorry, no matter how you twist it that ain't right.

the fur coat was symbolic. firstly it symbolized his mental unpreparedness to battle and war, a leader should be wearing armour like Charlemagne even wore his armour in bed under his royal garb. secondly he was like some old bear full of bitterness and anger. It showed his concerns with his rank, his vanity. It made him look like a barbaric black crow hovering over the throneroom. I thought it suited him well.

It suited a very bad choice of portrayal of Denethor. In the book he was very prepared, and crusty rather than vain. The Denethor of the books was wearing armor because he was nothing like what was in the movie. A far more interesting character than that peacock they put on film. They had a perfectly fine actor to do it right, no reason to go the direction they did, and they muffed it.

Yup, thats pretty spot on if you ask me.

Good actor, great sets (the throne room is one of my favourites in the whole trilogy for set design) but completely the wrong character.