Quantum Physics

an amazing image, but the real treasure is the tons of data that come with it!

Hmm...the band structure disappears near the poles.

But yeah, the multiple wavelengths will tell us a lot.

So how long would you guess it'll be before things we've learned about Jupiter's weather by analyzing the new data will start affecting meteorology on Earth? (modeling Jet Stream movements for example .)

The effects will probably not be much. We know all the basic physics, it's the emergent properties such as how many bands you get that need to be understood. Right now we can run computer programs that will tell you the earth has 5 atmospheric zones (tropics, north and south mid latitudes, north and south polar regions) but you can't do a back of the envelope estimation to show how many: jupiter versus saturn versus earth.

It would be nice to have such deeper knowledge, but it wouldn't effect how we did things. Still need to run the numerical models. Not clear if Jupiter will actually provide such deeper knowledge anyway. It may actually improve the models since there are a different group of people working on it with different insights. Our models keep producing a double Intertropical Convergence Zone (the line of clouds/storms around the equator that moves seasonally with the sun). It makes sense that if you have rising air that splits apart to go north and south it might produce two separate bands, but we don't see it in the satellite data. Maybe the planetologist might do something different than the meteorologists and make the problem go away.

{{{Well worth a full read on the BBC news site, but basically the European stellar mapping project Gaia has produced its first stunning data. Discovering about 400 million new bright objects in our Galaxy than previous known.
There is so much data they are asking the public to help go through it (a bunch of school kids have already discovered a previously unknown supernova) you can do that here-

https://www.gaia.ac.uk/alerts

(Dunno if thats UK only if there is aversion for different countries). }}

'Astronomers working on the Gaia space telescope have released a first tranche of data recording the position and brightness of over a billion stars.
And for some two million of these objects, their distance and sideways motion across the heavens has also been accurately plotted.
Gaia's mapping effort is already unprecedented in scale, but it still has several years to run.
Remarkably, scientists say the store of information even now is too big for them to sift, and they are appealing for the public's help in making discoveries.
To give one simple example of the scope of Gaia: Of the 1.1 billion light sources in Wednesday's data release, something like 400 million of these objects have never been recorded any previous catalogue.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37355154

{{I like this channel- lots of interesting things explained well enough that even idiots like me can at least grasp the concepts if not all the details}}

Yeah that guy's pretty good. He doesn't talk down so much to his audience that they are lulled into thinking they totally get it. They shouldn't completely get it because even many physicists (trained in other fields but exposure to all of them) don't completely get it.

Scientists have extracted long-dormant microbes from inside the famous giant crystals of the Naica mountain caves in Mexico - and revived them.

The organisms were likely encased in the striking shafts of gypsum at least 10,000 years ago, and possibly up to 50,000 years ago.- BBC

{{The 'crystal cave' itself is incredible, hard to believe its real, it looks like a film set.
Heres a documentary on it forma while back, but even if you dont have time to watch it all jump to 6.41 to see the place. }}

Yeah, just saw it this morning. She's been working on the microbes for 9 years, this was her first conference, still not publishing until she has the complete story. It's nice to know there's still places in science where people aren't being bulldozed into publishing before they are ready. Science was much higher quality before it became an industry.

That was SO fascinating ! I really enjoyed that no end. Its boggling to think is there other amazing places like this buried away under ground ? We really don't know about this Earth as much as we think we do, which is great ! I love being surprised & finding more out

{{{ Usually its hard to judge how skeptical to be of a person who is making UFO claims- but this is one of the most credible folk Ive seen. Firstly because of what he did for a living and where. secondly because he has retired and is dying so hard to see what gains he expects to make from it now (he has since passed away). And lastly because he is either very genuine or a very good liar! See what you think. }}}

http://web.randi.org/swift/debunkings-are-part-of-the-conspiracy-a-follow-up-on-the-boyd-bushman-alien-video-claims

Though Randi writes rather confusingly, this is what he's referring to:

http://deadstate.org/look-at-this-before-you-share-that-silly-ufo-death-bed-confession-video/

{{Yes I saw that- problem is other reports I saw say the camera used is a 1960's kodak- and so is the film. Now not impossible they got hold of some old film from the 60's that had miraculous survived in usable form- but if not then the 'toys' appear some 30 years later than the photo- which juts adds another layer of interest to it. }}}

That is a good point about old film.

{{ The hunt will be on now for more!}}

'Scientists say they have detected an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet for the first time.
They have studied a world known as GJ 1132b, which is 1.4-times the size of our planet and lies 39 light years away.
Their observations suggest that the "super-Earth" is cloaked in a thick layer of gasses that are either water or methane or a mixture of both....it is highly unlikely that this world is habitable: it has a surface temperature of 370C....it is a similar size to Earth, the star it orbits is much smaller, cooler and dimmer than our Sun....different molecules in a planet's atmosphere - if it has one - absorb light in different ways, allowing scientists to look for their chemical signatures when the world transits its star.
The observations of planet GJ 1132b suggest that it has a thick atmosphere containing either steam and/or methane.
"One possibility is that it is a 'water world' with an atmosphere of hot steam," said Dr Southworth.
Dr Southworth said: "What we have shown is that planets around low mass stars can have atmospheres and because there are so many of those in the Universe, it makes it that much more likely that one might have life."

Commenting on the research Marek Kukula, the public astronomer at the Royal Observatory Greenwich, said: "This is a nice proof of concept..." - BBC

Doesn't there need to be life for there to be Oxygen? Well, based on current understandings.

I often watch debates between religious people and scientists. Laurence Krauss is one that I am trying to get my head around what he is in about sometimes but it seems that work he is involved in is getting very close to understanding 'why there is something rather than nothing.'

My guess is that we will find out that there has just always been something and our universe is just one expression of that something that happens to be convenient for our kind of life to eventually evolve.

they didn't detect free oxygen, only water.  Though how they can be unsure whether they are looking at water or methane suggests they are looking in the thermal infrared, with broad absorption across the spectrum, rather than specific electronic transitions. Not sure if they can pick out oxygen with this technique.

Haven't read Krauss; reviews are mixed on the universe out of nothing book - seems like he's doing a lot of personal speculation, which is part of why it may be a somewhat confusing read.

its funny how the Earth is perfect for life, we have just the right amounts of oxygen and water. just the right amount of gravity, the moon the right size and distance, the Earth at the right tilt. But maybe if any of these things were different we wouldn't be here, and maybe that would have been better for the planet.

I'm not sure the planet really gives a damn.  But what's good for us is good for life, so if life's there we'd probably pop up to wreck it.

There's a sort of metaphysical debate in cosmology about the "anthropic principle".  The universe at large is exquisitely tuned to allow star formation.  The question is whether this is pure chance so we just happen to be here, or whether for some reason it had to happen.  All we know is that you jiggle some parameters by 10% one way or the other and boom!  No stars, no life, no us.

I hate the anthropic arugement when creationists use it!

It is not finely tuned for life... it is just how it is and that happens to allow our type of life to exist. In general, the planet and universe are pretty hostile to life.

I think it is best to think of things as if it is remotely possible (i.e. the laws of our universe to exist) then at some point it will do. We just happen to be the ones that existed. That is far more amazing than the idea that this was all made for us.

{{Here you go Figg, this rather helps with the whole- earth is made just for us its perfect for life argument-}}



{{This is good too- from the late great Douglas Adams}}

the popular version of the "anthropic principle" referred to by both of you misses the point because of the unfortunate name, which comes from the quantum mechanical idea of observation which is, happily, almost completely out of favor these days. The modern anthropic principle actually has only a tangential connection to humans.  It should be named the "complexity principle".

Cosmologists don't really give a flying patootie about humans or even that much about life.  They care about stars, which in turn form elements.  It turns out the fusion reaction is only possible by some exquisite tuning of physical parameters.

If someone can argue that the universe would create life without stars or elements, go ahead. It doesn't matter to the seeming coincidence that the universe is tuned to be an interesting place instead of just a smooth collection of hydrogen and energy, clumping together by gravity but otherwise not doing much at all.

If you get complexity in the universe, you might get life hanging on somewhere.  But it's just a side effect, not intrinsic to the cosmological anthropic principle.

Petty. didn't look at those vids but I wasn't saying the Earth was made just for us, I am saying that freak accidents which led to certain conditions for us to exist in optimum conditions. if certain planet hadn't crashed into Earth we wouldn't have had moon etc. it was a happy accident for us, but not so happy for dinosaurs.

NASA has some big news about Europa by all accounts.