Re: Filming Possibilities

by Bluebottle Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:17 pm

Eldorion wrote:Thanks for the breakdown, Blue. I was not aware of the distinction between adaptation and derivative work in this case. I agree that WB would need to be careful about references to unpublished Tolkien material, though that was true in the case of the LOTR and Hobbit movies as well.

You're welcome. Smile

It's odd that a derivative work, or a copletely unrelated story set in the same world seem the only way forward for the franchise. I guess the economic feasibility of those sorts of movies will become clearer in the not too distant future.

I kind of struggle to see it attracting interest though. The Fantastic Beasts triology is actually being written by Rowling herself, no? Making them quite a different prospect to sell to movie goers.

I'm actually a bit unclear on how much from Tolkien they could involve. The Grotter case, while obviously not having very strong position from a jurisprudence point of view, does still show some cohesion or similarity to the basic story of the Harry Potter series. So, at what point would an infraction of Tolkiens copyright incure. It's not a question with a straightforward answer certainly.

by malickfan Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:52 pm

I've forgotten about this:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/tolkien-estate-sues-warner-bros-393212

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/tolkien-estate-challenges-warner-bros-431720

After spending so much time and effort trying to stop further exploitation of the contract Tolkien signed in 1969, I think it would be in rather bad taste (not to mention rather odd) to sell the other rights away, I wasn't an actively posting Tolkien fan at the time of the last lawsuit, how long did that take to be settled?

by azriel Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:03 pm

I vaguely remember something like this, RA broached this subject in his "Save Merp" campaign. Where is the little guy ?

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:19 pm

Good point whee is RA? And why hasnt he watched my purist edits yet? Mad

by malickfan Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Good point whee is RA? And why hasnt he watched my purist edits yet?

Recoveryanonymous hasn't posted in a week, maybe the pre release excitement has got to him...

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:25 pm

Hope all is well with him and he drops by again soon.

Hey, you havent watched the purist edit of TH either yet have you?!!! Mad

by Mrs Figg Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:25 pm

when is this dratted film out anyway? is it December?

by azriel Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:11 pm

U-huh

Various dates in December, all depends where you live. UK gets it early Dec, not that I give a rats arse. I intend to have a GOOD night out, watching a Christmas 'do' or something ? anything but make myself feel like a female Hulk

Filming Possibilities - Page 7 Middle-finger-rude-gesture-smiley-emoticon_zpsomlam9sg

by malickfan Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:21 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Hope all is well with him and he drops by again soon.

Hey, you havent watched the purist edit of TH either yet have you?!!!

I have explained to you before my reasons for not watching your purist edits (don't take it personally, in any case watching a reedit would probably just depress me realizing how screwed up the films are)

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:22 pm

Sorry Malick- I thought it was just an objection to downloading and having them- not to just watching them on a stream.

by malickfan Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:24 pm

Peter Jackson's facebook pace is absolutely crawling with demands for A silmarillion film...

by malickfan Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Sorry Malick- I thought it was just an objection to downloading and having them- not to just watching them on a stream.

Like I said I certainly appreciate the gesture, and I'll let you know if I change my mind.

But I'd rather just put this Thorin Trilogy business behind us as soon as possible... Evil or Very Mad

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:27 pm

That I can sympathise with.

by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:37 am

70s Russian edit. that I would watch. Nod

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:04 am

Go on Figg give TH edit a go. I promise its nowhere near as bad as PJ's cut.
In fact once I am forcibly evicted from the internet for a few days I expect to come back and find you have all watched the bloody thing or I shall be very crabbit indeed. And Im pretty damn crabbit to start with! Twisted Evil

by malickfan Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:16 pm

[quote="Bluebottle"]

Eldorion wrote:references to unpublished Tolkien material,

Anyone else find it weird the drafts and notes in HOME/UFT are normally reffered to as 'unpublished material'? Incomplete yes, but published all the same, Tolkien didn't publish The Silmarillion either but everyone seems to count that...

by malickfan Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:27 pm

Apparently TORn doesn't seem to place too much faifth in copyright laws judging by their recent book:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2014/10/11/93051-it-comes-in-print-im-getting-one/

How Peter Jackson could make an adaptation of The Silmarillion without obtaining the rights from the Tolkien Estate

(Joking aside I presume this refers to Jackson using the poems/snippets in the appendices to put together the bare outline of a story with a few character names from the Sil, hardly an adaptation)

by Sinister71 Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:01 pm

sadly PJ worshipers have to have some sliver of hope somewhere. Instead of using their own imagination for things. The Sil as it is written would be an impossible film, which personally I feel it would be more suited for television as a series.., pub

The sheep mentality on other forums never ceases to surprise me. I wonder how it feel to just want to hang with the cool kids instead of being the art club geek... who gives a shit, F You

I would rather be an individual who is capable or free thought and imagination. Instead of a sheep who has to follow the herd.

oops sorry that last statement was not Politically correct F You

by Elthir Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:40 pm

malickfan wrote: Anyone else find it weird the drafts and notes in HOME/UFT are normally reffered to as 'unpublished material'? Incomplete yes, but published all the same, Tolkien didn't publish The Silmarillion either but everyone seems to count that...

For myself I highly support such references... lately I have tried to switch to 'posthumously' published to make the same distinction... except that I can't always spell pothusmously correctly.

by Eldorion Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:09 am

Yeah, I use unpublished and posthumously published interchangeably, even though that doesn't really make sense. I do include The Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin in that category though. I think the reason some people consider the Silm separate is because it's more polished, and also because not everyone realizes how much work Christopher had to put into editing the book together.

by Elthir Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:26 pm

In a sense I still like 'unpublished' better, despite the technical truth that they have been published... by someone other than the author.

by Eldorion Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:27 pm

That's the implication, definitely. I suppose the term was more useful in the '80s and '90s when much less had been posthumously published.

by feanor 1999 Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:29 pm

malickfan wrote:Apparently TORn doesn't seem to place too much faifth in copyright laws judging by their recent book:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2014/10/11/93051-it-comes-in-print-im-getting-one/

How Peter Jackson could make an adaptation of The Silmarillion without obtaining the rights from the Tolkien Estate

(Joking aside I presume this refers to Jackson using the poems/snippets in the appendices to put together the bare outline of a story with a few character names from the Sil, hardly an adaptation)

Ayup...

It just staggers me that this keeps rolling on and on...

by Eldorion Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:24 pm

malickfan wrote:Apparently TORn doesn't seem to place too much faifth in copyright laws judging by their recent book:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2014/10/11/93051-it-comes-in-print-im-getting-one/

How Peter Jackson could make an adaptation of The Silmarillion without obtaining the rights from the Tolkien Estate

(Joking aside I presume this refers to Jackson using the poems/snippets in the appendices to put together the bare outline of a story with a few character names from the Sil, hardly an adaptation)

I know a guy who bought the book and yes, that's what it refers to. It's kinda hilarious that someone actually thinks you could make a Silmarillion movie based on the five paragraph summary of the book found in Appendix A (with no timeline; Appendix B deliberately skips the First Age). There's no Turin in the summary, no Wars of Beleriand, no origin stories for anyone or anything. Sure, you could theoretically use this as the basis of a movie, but you'd have to avoid referencing anything that is found in The Silmarillion but not in the summary, so ... most of the book. Also, it would smash The Hobbit trilogy's record for words-to-runtime ratio.

by malickfan Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:51 pm

From Jackson himself:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/04/no-regrets-peter-jackson-says-goodbye-to-middle-earth.html

s you’ve mentioned, the rights to future Tolkien books are still with the estate. But even if you did have the chance to adapt them into films, would you even want to, especially after making two trilogies?

Well, it’s a very hard question. It’s a hypothetical one. I’ve never really thought about it because we have got projects that we can do that aren’t impossible, that aren’t full of legal complications. But the truth of it is, they probably will one day [be made]. The Tolkien estate doesn’t want to release the films because it’s a decision that the current executors of the estate believe in. But at some point that may change, the executors may change, and those rights may suddenly surface.

But look, it depends on how old I am [laughs], and whether I have the energy anymore. Having been happy to hand The Hobbit to Guillermo [Del Toro] and then doing it myself, I definitely ended up with a stronger sense of ownership of Middle-earth than I ever had before, and it would be kind of hard to sit back and watch another filmmaker do stories if they were connected to these ones. If they weren’t connected, then sure. But if it was something connected to this mythology that we’ve done, if I had the energy and the strength then I would really want to do it. Never say never!