continuing proofs America is wacko

Ahh for a moment I thought you meant it was in Fjordianland Norc- but America, yeah that sounds daft enough.
And I kind of agree abou the car is a murder weapon thing- if you use it to try to murder someone that is- however not if you drive about from a-b-c-to-b-a- again cause your lost and dont hit anything.

I was thinking the same thing. Yes, makes much more sense now.

As always, there would seem more to the story than what the Kneejerkfirst brigade know.

Speaking of cars as weapons, I've got a question for the Oz Hobbits.

About ten years ago in Europe I was having a few pints with an Aussie I'd met. After lecturing me in a friendly way about the problems with Americans and a detailed definition of "Seppo", he launched into a series of "Boong" jokes which he insisted weren't racist, just good fun. Running over Aborigines with various types of vehicles seemed to be the central theme.

It was pretty clear that he was hoping to get a fight started, but I still was struck that his jokes had that same quality as alter boy jokes, of feeling like they covered an ugly truth.

I've met these jokes several other times among Aussie travelers. What's going on here really?

no offense here but they've treated (and still do) the aboriginal people, sorry for the term, like shit.

Now, don't get me wrong... I love my country & still think it's the best in the world, but I am continually amazed at the people.



Florida man mistakes girlfriend for hog, shoots her

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/florida-man-mistakes-girlfriend-hog-shoots-her-211904311.html

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David H wrote:Speaking of cars as weapons, I've got a question for the Oz Hobbits.

About ten years ago in Europe I was having a few pints with an Aussie I'd met. After lecturing me in a friendly way about the problems with Americans and a detailed definition of "Seppo", he launched into a series of "Boong" jokes which he insisted weren't racist, just good fun. Running over Aborigines with various types of vehicles seemed to be the central theme.

It was pretty clear that he was hoping to get a fight started, but I still was struck that his jokes had that same quality as alter boy jokes, of feeling like they covered an ugly truth.

I've met these jokes several other times among Aussie travelers. What's going on here really?

Like some hobbits everywhere, some Ozhobbits are racists. As to treating Aboriginals like shit? I've been treated like shit by more Aboriginals than I can count. Many are friendly, some aren't. Historically, there is much 'whites' have done that is wrong when looked at with retrospectivity. Some Aborginals are racists, some aren't. I only treat Fjordiandians like shit because they are a sub-species like Scotshobbits. But I'm not racist, Fjordianandians (and Scotshobbits) just deserve what they get, methinks.

Well, it's not like we have a clean record either considering how the Sami people was treated. We're not quite out of the woods yet.

true, but they are beginning to be quite whiney.. they have equal rights yet they still expect us to think it's okay to have reindeers wandering in our backyards. and that they should have the final word in the finnmark-politic. don't get me wrong, I think they have a right to learn their language and culture and all, but when it comes to the finnmark property they seem to be living in the past, not the present.

A lot of people would be delighted to have reindeer wandering in their back yard.

not me. at least they don't attack you like moose.

Are you bothered by destruction to shrubbery or by the invasion of privacy? Are they not cute and fuzzy?

They are quite big. And they would probably think YOU were shrubbery, Halfwise.

Ah, more like cows. Though I would appreciate having our version of deer in my (currently non existent) back yard, cows would eventually be an annoyance.

Yes, if you know where to look, there are nasty corners in everyones closet.

But I do wish the Euros/Others would at least stop blaming the US for wiping out the Native Americans, stealing their land, etc. You make it sound like we gathered the 1st Marine Division down on the Jersey Shore, and loaded them up into landing craft. And then we had them go out about 200 yards, turn around and invade/conquer North America.

It was Spanish, and English, and Dutch, and French who invaded North and South America and wiped out large portions of the native populations (by war, violence and most of all disease) and took their land. And they were your colonies, with fresh Euros coming yearly for the first 275 years. Even later there's still lots of Euros, like the Swedes, Germans and Norwegians going north and west to grab their piece of the native pie.

We as an entity are responsible for what happened after 1776. Estimates vary and its far from settled, but most studies state from 60-90% of the original native population was already dead by then, mainly from smallpox, which advanced inland and accross the continent, in some places more then 100 years before any settlers or soldiers ever appeared.

And yet to demonstrate we deserved to be a new and independent nation we should have been able to act differently. The Trail of Tears should not have happened. The Cherokee worked hard to assimilate and go through the proper channels to show they felt they were citizens with a stake in the country. I would rather believe my country has more greatness of spirit than that, but it doesn't always shine through.

halfwise wrote:And yet to demonstrate we deserved to be a new and independent nation we should have been able to act differently. The Trail of Tears should not have happened. The Cherokee worked hard to assimilate and go through the proper channels to show they felt they were citizens with a stake in the country. I would rather believe my country has more greatness of spirit than that, but it doesn't always shine through.

You are right, we didn't act any differently, and are responsible for our own misdeeds and all that took place after 1776.

My point was more about Euros absolving themselves from any responsibility, like they weren't involved, and ignorring the first 300 years of a 500 year history. Even if this thread I believe you can read reference to American's genocide against Native Americans, when as I point out it was actually mainly Euros doing it.

Or I could put it this way, 'the apple didn't fall far from the tree.'

agreed.

you know I think Hollywood has a lot of blame as regards peoples imagined perceptions of Americans, its subtle but I think it exists. its probably 50 years of Cowboy and Indian films that have coloured our (European) collective imaginations. When I was a kid films were full of John Wayne types killing poor natives just shooting them down like flies, I guess it comes from ignorance about the reality of what really happened out there. We maybe think the Hollywood version is real. Now of course the films are made from the Native American side of the coin, and they are now seen as guardians of the Earth and mysterious shaman types and all that, I think the film Dancing with Wolves was a turning point in that respect. feel free to disagree its just an idea I had.

i think dancing with wolves (didn't see the ending though) and the film burry my heart at wounded knee are really good films about this subject.

the reindeers, Halwise, I don't like because my dog tries to kill them and the man who owns the reindeers will shoot the dog instantly if he sees them chasing a reindeer. Ok, I know that's their livestock, but c'mon, they're in my backyard!

Turembar wrote:

halfwise wrote:And yet to demonstrate we deserved to be a new and independent nation we should have been able to act differently. The Trail of Tears should not have happened. The Cherokee worked hard to assimilate and go through the proper channels to show they felt they were citizens with a stake in the country. I would rather believe my country has more greatness of spirit than that, but it doesn't always shine through.

You are right, we didn't act any differently, and are responsible for our own misdeeds and all that took place after 1776.

My point was more about Euros absolving themselves from any responsibility, like they weren't involved, and ignorring the first 300 years of a 500 year history. Even if this thread I believe you can read reference to American's genocide against Native Americans, when as I point out it was actually mainly Euros doing it.

Or I could put it this way, 'the apple didn't fall far from the tree.'

It's always a curious thing how guilt and blame is assigned, especially when there isn't a general agreement as to what actually happened.

Although a lot of 19th century Native American mortality is attributed to disease, I also know that as recently as 1900 it wasn't uncommon to drive sick Indians out like lepers and burn their houses in the name of public health....an old European practice of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8mNjeuyV4

Norc wrote:
the reindeers, Halwise, I don't like because my dog tries to kill them and the man who owns the reindeers will shoot the dog instantly if he sees them chasing a reindeer. Ok, I know that's their livestock, but c'mon, they're in my backyard!

I know this issue well from my home, and I've had to kill dogs that killed my wife's sheep. I hated to do it more than I can say, but it needed to be done because it was the only legal way I could defend my animals who depended on me for their lives.

My guess is that the man with the reindeer would hate to shoot your dog just as much, but when you are responsible for animals it's almost like they're your children. If the neighbor's dog threatens them, you have to defend them even if your child was where he shouldn't have been. I don't say who is right. Many feuds and range wars have been fought over this problem.

As for your comment about the Sammi whining, I have to say that it's common with racial problems for both sides to complain. I actually ended up hitchhiking across Finnmark partly bacause I'd heard so much complaining about the Sammi Problem, and I wanted to hear the other side.

Orwell wrote:

David H wrote:Speaking of cars as weapons, I've got a question for the Oz Hobbits.

About ten years ago in Europe I was having a few pints with an Aussie I'd met. After lecturing me in a friendly way about the problems with Americans and a detailed definition of "Seppo", he launched into a series of "Boong" jokes which he insisted weren't racist, just good fun. Running over Aborigines with various types of vehicles seemed to be the central theme.

It was pretty clear that he was hoping to get a fight started, but I still was struck that his jokes had that same quality as alter boy jokes, of feeling like they covered an ugly truth.

I've met these jokes several other times among Aussie travelers. What's going on here really?

Like some hobbits everywhere, some Ozhobbits are racists. As to treating Aboriginals like shit? I've been treated like shit by more Aboriginals than I can count. Many are friendly, some aren't. Historically, there is much 'whites' have done that is wrong when looked at with retrospectivity. Some Aborginals are racists, some aren't. I only treat Fjordiandians like shit because they are a sub-species like Scotshobbits. But I'm not racist, Fjordianandians (and Scotshobbits) just deserve what they get, methinks.

It wasn't the racism that disturbed me so much as the growing sense that I was drinking beer with a possible serial murderer who discussed roo bars and bull bars as if they were sports equipment. I've never looked at an Australian vehicle with a stock guard on the front without feeling a little sick ever since. When I travel I used to really like to hitchhike as a way to meet real people, but Australia....maybe not. What do you think?

David H wrote:

Norc wrote:
the reindeers, Halwise, I don't like because my dog tries to kill them and the man who owns the reindeers will shoot the dog instantly if he sees them chasing a reindeer. Ok, I know that's their livestock, but c'mon, they're in my backyard!

I know this issue well from my home, and I've had to kill dogs that killed my wife's sheep. I hated to do it more than I can say, but it needed to be done because it was the only legal way I could defend my animals who depended on me for their lives.

My guess is that the man with the reindeer would hate to shoot your dog just as much, but when you are responsible for animals it's almost like they're your children. If the neighbor's dog threatens them, you have to defend them even if your child was where he shouldn't have been. I don't say who is right. Many feuds and range wars have been fought over this problem.

As for your comment about the Sammi whining, I have to say that it's common with racial problems for both sides to complain. I actually ended up hitchhiking across Finnmark partly bacause I'd heard so much complaining about the Sammi Problem, and I wanted to hear the other side.

don't get me wrong, I am actually on the sami people's side, though I believe they today have equal rights as everyone els and should stop living in the past. When it comes to the property of Finnmark, their right to keep reindeers on the land goes over e.g a family of not-sami people, although they have lived on the land with their livestock (sheep and so on) for generations. And the coast-sami, the ones that doesn't do reindeers but fish, they have no rights when it comes to the finnmark-property. there is a tender feud about if we are giving them too much and the other way.
there was a huge debate not long ago about having signs in their language, and some (and those are few) shot at the signs or tagged over them. there was a nasty debate... all the same, I am on their side, but.. they can be whiney. I mean.. the finnmark-property is heavily "grassed" and worn down by too many reindeers, and the sami blame predators and so because their reindeers are dying, but when you look into it, only a few are actually taken by predators, most of them die of starvation.

and yes. I do understand that one wants to protect the livestock. But there is no place to let your dog loose and the reindeers are everywhere. Ofcourse, by law you have to have dogs on a leash between certain dates due to birds nesting, but here I think it is all year. We don't even have a dog park. And they should be on the mountain when it's winter (because there is little snow because of wind and inland there is little downfall) but here, by the coast, there is more downfall in the winter, so they sometimes come down. It's just annoying to be walking your dog and suddenly there is a super chill reindeer in the middle of the street looking at you like "oh... a dog. Maybe I should trod over here..." and they like sob away while my dog is just shaking with excitement and murderous thinking. and my dog is strong.

On the lighter (haha) side of things, I think the Heart Attack Grill in Las Vegas is a monument both to America's culinary lifestyle and the sense of freedom to do what you want, even if it kills you:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/another-heart-attack-grill-customer-collapses-while-eating-191647836.html