PJ on differences between TH and LOTR

From io9.com

The Hobbit

Speaking to Total Film, director Peter Jackson explains how this film presented very different challenges than when directing the Lord of the Rings trilogy:

"The Hobbit is very much a children's book and The Lord of the Rings is something else; it's not really aimed at children at all. I realized the characters of the dwarves are the difference. Their energy and disdain of anything politically correct brings a new kind of spirit to it. And that's why I thought, OK, this could be fun!"

He also explains the particular challenges of portraying thirteen dwarves as distinct characters:

"That was something I worried about. I imagined 13 guys with long hair and beards and I thought, 'How are we ever going to know which dwarf is which? It's an ensemble from hell really. I thought nine members of the Fellowship was a problem; but here, with Bilbo and Gandalf, we've got 15. It's working out fine though. The dwarves give it a kind of childish, comedic quality that gives us a very different tone from The Lord of the Rings."

However, despite the different tone of the Hobbit films, Jackson says he wants to ensure it all feels like one large story of Middle-Earth:

"I want it to seem like we've gone back on location into Middle-earth; that these two movies feel like they belong at the beginning of the other three. We're the same filmmakers going into the same world."

Jackson also says that the films do retain some aspects of original director Guillermo del Toro's style and DNA, but these have largely been overshadowed by Jackson's own attempts to replicate his approach to The Lord of the Rings ten years ago.

As for how the two parts of The Hobbit divide up the story, Jackson's wife and writing partner Fran Walsh suggests the second movie will be primarily focused with what the article describes as "war, madness and dragon rage." She explains:

"We always saw The Hobbit more in the golden light of a fairytale. It's more playful. But by the time you get to the end, Tolkien is writing himself into that place where he can begin that epic journey of writing LOTR, which took, as he put it, his life's blood. All those heavier, darker themes which are so prevalent in the later trilogy start to come into play."

This actually makes me ... hopeful. I'm used to feeling anxious and excited about these films but this is new. I just hope PJ is able to preserve Tolkien's comic style rather than his own style that he demonstrated in LOTR. I find that rather doubtful. But I can hope!

Nice read. Thanks for posting, Eldo

My pleasure, Ringdrotten. Between this and the song being included in the trailer I'm starting to wonder if we might actually see a reasonably faithful adaptation after all, or at least one that recognizes the distinct tone of The Hobbit. I suspect the White Council stuff will be more 'dramatic' but the prospects are looking rosier than they have in a long time. And it should give Petty plenty of fodder for editing.

He's really got no excuse for not making a faithful adaptation as he's making two films out of a story that short. I share your optimism, though Even if I didn't like the trailer, the production videos are giving me hope. And the more Petty gets to work with, the happier I'll be

Be no one happier than me if I have no work to do at all. But my cynicism on PJ knows few bounds and his sense of humour has been unchanged since his Bad Taste days.

That's an interesting idea, that it is the character of the Dwarves themselves that makes the difference in tone.
I can see that view point, as kids we see people in terms of characteristics, perculiarities and oddities, as we grow we tend to see them in a wider context of the times they live in and the way they respond to that. Cool!

But if all that is altered is the fact that dwarves are daft, it isn't going to feel like a childs fairytale, just a farce!

PJ shared some more interesting thoughts on this issue just a few days ago. From MTV...

Speaking with MTV News at the Sundance Film Festival, Jackson explained that it was always his intention to keep "The Hobbit" tonally and visually consistent with the "Lord of the Rings" films.

"We wanted it to be a part of the five-film series," he explained. "Fortunately, Tolkien wrote a lot of extra material in the appendices of 'The Lord of the Rings,' where he himself kind of tied the two stories together, 20 or 30 years after the publication of 'The Hobbit.' So we've been able to use some of that material."

But even though Jackson's "Hobbit" isn't "as much of a children's story as the original book was," he's worked hard to make sure the films still "have some humor" to them. For example, Jackson promised that "some of the songs [from the novel] have made their way in there." Fans can get their first taste of those tunes in the "Hobbit" trailer, when the dwarves gather in Bilbo Baggins' humble abode to sing a somber song.

Finding that balance between staying true to the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy while allowing the "Hobbit" films to stand on their own has been an enjoyable challenge for Jackson, who is more than thrilled to once again be dabbling in dwarves and dragons.

"I'm enjoying the movie [as much as the fans], which is the thing that I'm really excited about," he said. "I love going to work every day. I love shooting it. In February, we start another 100 days of shooting, so by about July, we're done. We will have shot both movies by that stage."

All emphasis mine. Interestingly, the comment about a five film series is similar to one that Guillermo del Toro made way back in October 2008.

I'm not as optimistic as you are, Eldo, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, who knows?

Well, I suppose the titles will be appropriate then: Part 1, An Unexpected Journey.... to Dol Guldur. And Part 2, There and Back Again.... there being LOTR and back again meaning it ties into it! Pass me some buckie please!

Eldorion wrote:

This actually makes me ... hopeful.  I'm used to feeling anxious and excited about these films but this is new.  I just hope PJ is able to preserve Tolkien's comic style rather than his own style that he demonstrated in LOTR.  I find that rather doubtful.  But I can hope!

...

Hey, I said that I was doubtful!

But you have to keep in mind that I'd been following The Hobbit project for more than three years by the time I made this post (which was itself almost three years ago), and that for a large chunk of that time it looked like the films might not happen at all due to the endless roadblocks that came up during pre-production.  We had only just seen the first trailer a week or so before this thread was made, and it was something of a surprise because it featured characters singing very prominently.  The issue of songs from The Hobbit had been a fairly controversial one in debates up until that point, and I had been of the opinion that PJ was likely to excise them all, or at least the more humorous ones.  But the trailer not only featured singing but it also made it clear that "chip the glasses and crack the plates" was going to be included as well, which I had completely written off.

Also, I was riding high on the energy and excitement of knowing that yes, the films really are happening ... which had been clear since filming officially started in March 2011, but felt much more real because of the trailer and especially the attention that got from the wider geekosphere.  We weren't just this little bubble of hardcore fans following a movie that might never exist outside our imaginations.  So that was a very exciting time, despite my longstanding skepticism about many aspects of the project, and I don't regret getting into the spirit of things.  But I'll acknowledge that it looks kinda bizarre in retrospect.

(Also keep in mind that there were still only two movies planned at this point, so there was no reason to expect the level of bloat that we ultimately got.  The news of the trilogy split was met with considerable negativity on here.)

Eldorion wrote:Hey, I said that I was doubtful! It's just funny to bump up these old threads and see how everyone (apart from Petty) was so much more enthusiastic back then, weren't King Kong and The Lovely Bones any indication of what to expect?

But you have to keep in mind that I'd been following The Hobbit project for more than three years by the time I made this post (which was itself almost three years ago)I've been following them since 2007, but seriously since 2011 so I know here you were coming from, and that for a large chunk of that time it looked like the films might not happen at all due to the endless roadblocks that came up during pre-production.  We had only just seen the first trailer a week or so before this thread was made, and it was something of a surprise because it featured characters singing very prominentlyyeah that was really rather surpising at the time, the Dwarves had very good singing voices It's a shame they didn't continue that with DOS. My feelings on the films aside, I still think AUJ's trailer was brilliant, i watched it at least 20 times...  The issue of songs from The Hobbit had been a fairly controversial one in debates up until that point, and I had been of the opinion that PJ was likely to excise them all, or at least the more humorous ones.  But the trailer not only featured singing but it also made it clear that "chip the glasses and crack the plates" was going to be included as well, which I had completely written offIt's funny given how controverisal the songs were, you see bloody hundres of covers on Youtube....

Also, I was riding high on the energy and excitement of knowing that yes, the films really are happening ... which had been clear since filming officially started in March 2011, but felt much more real because of the trailer and especially the attention that got from the wider geekosphere.  We weren't just this little bubble of hardcore fans following a movie that might never exist outside our imaginations.  So that was a very exciting time, despite my longstanding skepticism about many aspects of the project, and I don't regret getting into the spirit of things.  But I'll acknowledge that it looks kinda bizarre in retrospectIf you ever revive your History of Forumshire Project I think it's goging to be very interesting to see when People's opnions started to chnage....

(Also keep in mind that there were still only two movies planned at this point, so there was no reason to expect the level of bloat that we ultimately got.  The news of the trilogy was met with considerable negativity on hereI think that was the point I lost all hope.)

It's rather funny bumping old posts like this, how times change...

Excuses, excuses.

Good excuses though.

see how everyone (apart from Petty) was so much more enthusiastic back then- Malick

Yup weak minded others (who I shall not be named as its most of you and I dont have the time ) did not have the certainty of crabbit to sustain them and got blown about emotionally all over the place by some well edited trailers (I warned about that at the time I seem to recall!). And one thing no one can ever accuse me of is enthusiasm for these films!

I got exactly what I expected (actually thats not true, they were even worse than I expected, fortunately I had the crabbit reserves ready for it )

malickfan wrote:It's just funny to bump up these old threads and see how everyone (apart from Petty) was so much more enthusiastic back then, weren't King Kong and The Lovely Bones any indication of what to expect?

Well I'm fond of pointing to my rant from February 2009 when I feel the need to defend my purist credentials. But I was making an effort to be optimistic for much of the time, and this was made easier by the presence of many genuine PJ partisans who would call out purist bashing of the man.  I'm not sure that those debates changed any minds on here (although I do know that I changed a couple minds on LOTR Plaza back in 2009-2010 ) but it basically negated the echo-chamber effect.

yeah that was really rather surpising at the time, the Dwarves had very good singing voices It's a shame they didn't continue that with DOS. My feelings on the films aside, I still think AUJ's trailer was brilliant, i watched it at least 20 times..

Agreed, it was a great trailer and I re-watched it numerous times later on to get back into a Hobbity mood.

If you ever revive your History of Forumshire Project     I think it's goging to be very interesting to see when People's opnions started to chnage...

I'm pretty sure it was the CinemaCon screening in ... *checks* ... April 2012, I think, that began the shift.  That was the first news that I remember had the forum nearly unanimously negative about a bit of PJ-related news [edit: although Itaril aka Tauriel was also controversial].  The main story for entertainment reporters was the skepticism of attendees towards 48 fps (which had not yet been re-branded as HFR 3D), and that certainly received some flak on here as well, especially from people who were already annoyed at the pushing of 3D and the correspondingly more expensive ticket prices.  But the real bombshell from that was the public debut of Radagast, with his bird-shit beard and the bunny sled.  This was our first taste of PJ's sense of humor for the movies and it vindicated everyone who had warned of the potential for more goofy antics and body humor.

You can see what I think is the first posting of any CinemaCon news at the link below, the but the reactions keep going for numerous subsequent pages of that thread as more details emerged.

http://www.hobbitmovieforum.com/t377p150-news-from-the-set-2#29855

It's rather funny bumping old posts like this, how times change...

Yeah, it's one of those things about forums and how they preserve everything you say.  There are plenty of threads I hope don't get bumped. But it can be fun (in a sometimes melancholy way) to look back over old stuff.

Are we getting into a nostalgic rambling mood tonight ? Its like being at the after funeral 'do' where everyone remembers something about poor fred bloggs who's just snuffed it.
Its like we secretly know without words that this is it, the end. ( of peejers triumphant cock up )
{{{ Im not complaining tho Eldo }}}

azriel wrote:
Its like we secretly know without words that this is it, the end. ( of peejers triumphant cock up )

Is this a cause for celeberation or regret

But yeah, partially boredom, partially nostalgia, because the forum is so small it's much easier to find the old threads, our misplaced expectations are staring us in the face, I don't know whether it's amusing or depressing.

Its a mixed sensation I think ? I wish I could see in this Christmas on a 'high', because I had enjoyed The Hobbit & cant stop talking & smiling about it but, I cant ! Everytime I see that Fook awful bloody gnome, fooking dwarf, wotsisname ? Nori, with the dumbarse hairdo, I could cry, or, hit something, ( or someone!) This is one big anti-climax for me. If ever a saying "should have stayed in & washed my hair" springs to mind, this is it !

I'm sad that the world won't be visited anymore, and I'm sad that it was such a disappointment, particularly because I was so excited when the first news that TH was going into production (2009 that was...5 years ago!) I hope that at the very least, it will be a better film. It is a war film, so hopefully PJ is in his element.

There's certainly the opportunity for quite a bit of spectacle, which he seems to like.

I'm kind of looking forward to it, just to see how over the top it'll turn out.

Well I have to hope for something vaguely book like somewhere, sometime in it or the purists edits will have a very abrupt resolution indeed.

Tinuviel wrote:I'm sad that the world won't be visited anymore, and I'm sad that it was such a disappointment, particularly because I was so excited when the first news that TH was going into production (2009 that was...5 years ago!) I hope that at the very least, it will be a better film. It is a war film, so hopefully PJ is in his element.

I would like for this to be the case, but I think the action stuff falls prey to PJ's over-indulgences pretty easily. The skirmish at Amon Hen is probably the best battle scene PJ has given us, although Helm's Deep is my personal favorite for the balance between massive scope and a sense that the director had a solid vision and wasn't just flinging every kewl idea he thought of at the screen.

He threw unwanted and unneeded tension undermining elves at it- and Legolamb does his stair surfing crap- Helms Deep is the start of the rot.

That's why I said it wasn't the best, but is still my favorite.

Legolas does impossible shit in FOTR too, and while there's really no excuse for the Elves, they kinda blend in one the battle actually starts (with the exception of Haldir's death scene).

The damage is done by the time the battle starts.
Pj gives us a very nice scene between Aragorn and Theoden, the "we are not so lucky in our friends as you," speech setting up the overwhelming odds against them nicely and the desperate heroism of the defence they are about to undertake, then it turns out two minutes later they are as lucky in their friends after all