Re: US Presidential Election 2012

by David H Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:47 pm

Are you sure about that? It used to be that it was limited to individuals and contributions up to $5,000 I thought.

Not that there weren't always loopholes, but the formation of the new super PAC's that allow for unlimited corporate and union contributions (and effectively anonymously!), as long as they don't coordinate directly with the campaign completely guts the intent of the Taft-Hartley Act. Evil or Very Mad

by halfwise Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:02 pm

You clearly know the ins and outs of the law better than I do. I think the crux is 'coordinate directly with the campaign' - how direct does it have to be? I think the campaign could just publicly post 'gee, it would be nice if somebody did this' and the super pac pick it up.

by David H Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:51 pm

I'm afraid this is one of those situations where knowing more means understanding less......

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:57 am

I watched HBO's 'Too Big to Fail'- was more entertaining than it was informative really.
Although I did like the bit where once the officials had realised how bad things were and some poor lass had to go tell the press she asked "And what do I tell them when they ask' why didn't we regulate any of this?' and her boss replies "Because they were making too much money".
No one questions success even when its built on dodgy ground right up to the point where all four wheels fall off the wagon. (PJ might be about to learn that lesson too).

by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:51 pm

I debated whether to put this in the Education thread or here but it's so wacky I thought it deserved this thread. I should note though that this is hardly exceptional. I once had a college professor try to convince me of this same thing in class. He was a political science professor, not a biologist, but he was also Orthodox Jewish. I go to a state university so there's really no escaping this.

http://www.kentucky.com/2012/08/14/2298914/gop-lawmakers-question-standards.html

Excerpt:

Several GOP lawmakers questioned new proposed student standards and tests that delve deeply into biological evolution during a Monday meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Education.

In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms.

"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution," Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview.

"Republicans did want the end-of-course tests tied to national norms; now they're upset because when ACT surveyed biology professors across the nation, they said students have to have a thorough knowledge of evolution to do well in college biology courses," said Rep. Carl Rollins, D-Midway, chairman of the House Education Committee.

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up," Waide said. "My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

The proposed science standards would require students to complete such tasks as:

Explain the biological definition of evolution.
Differentiate among chemical evolution, organic evolution and the evolutionary steps along the way to aerobic heterotrophs and photosynthetic autotrophs.
Discuss Darwin's principle of survival of the fittest and explain what Darwin meant by natural selection.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:58 pm

Do they not realise that the end result of teaching pseudo made up stuff like creationism over science will be that the US will be completely outcompeted globally in science areas? And that will not only screw the country as an economy but cause a massive brain drain as would be scientist go elsewhere to study the real thing? And that in turn will lead to a strengthing of political power in other countries and a weakining of Americas?
Knowledge is power- teaching a fairystory in place of science is madness.

edit add- some of the comments following that piece are classic- one of my favourites so far in response to someone who posted a link to a creationist website as 'proof' creationism is a valid science got this response-

'using a creationist website as proof is like me using harry potter to prove that magic is real.'

Made me snort my tea up my nose with laughter. Laughing

by David H Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Also in the news today.....
By Kevin Dolak
Aug 27, 2012 8:30am
Bill Nye ‘The Science Guy’ Hits Evolution Deniers

In a clip posted to online knowledge forum Big Think via YouTube, former children’s show host Bill Nye spoke out against the denial of evolution, saying such views harm young people especially and hamper scientific progress.

Nye, who hosted the educational show “Bill Nye the Science Guy,” which aired on PBS Kids from 1993 through 1998, made the statements in a clip posted online on Thursday, and has since been viewed over one million times. In the clip, Nye praises the United States for its contribution to technological innovation, but says that the denial of evolution is unique to the country.

“People still move to the United States. And that’s largely because of the intellectual capital we have, the general understanding of science,” Nye said in the clip. “When you have a portion of the population that doesn’t believe in that, it holds everybody back, really.

“Evolution is the fundamental idea in all of life science, in all of biology. It’s like, it’s very much analogous to trying to do geology without believing in tectonic plates. You’re just not going to get the right answer. Your whole world is just going to be a mystery instead of an exciting place,” he added.

Nye made a three-stop tour through New Hampshire earlier this summer to tout President Obama’s education policies while making a push for science and engineering programs. He has endorsed Obama’s reelection bid.

In the clip, Nye said that one’s “world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution.”

“Here are these ancient dinosaur bones or fossils, here is radioactivity, here are distant stars that are just like our star but they’re at a different point in their lifecycle. The idea of deep time, of this billions of years, explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your world view just becomes crazy, just untenable, itself inconsistent,” he said.

Nye then goes on to urge adults not to deny the teaching of evolution to young people.

“And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine, but don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can — we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.

“It’s just really a hard thing, it’s really a hard thing. You know, in another couple of centuries that world view, I’m sure, will be, it just won’t exist. There’s no evidence for it.”

by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:31 pm

Petty - You seem to be under the impression that creationists care about scientific progress or think that secular academic achievements are worth anything. Wink

Dave - I was too young to watch Bill Nye when he was on TV but he's always seemed like a really cool guy. I'm glad to hear him speaking out on this. Smile

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:43 pm

David- good to see there is still a case being made for some sanity.
But if the Republicans and their Mormon* leader get into power is there a real risk of creatonism being taught as science being the norm?
Or is it a nutty fringe thing? Its hard to tell lookingin from the outside.

Eldo- they might care when they are living in a mudhut with no electricty, riddled with disease and without any 'science'.

*is it just me who when they read Mormon gets a picture of a moomin in their head?

by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:09 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:But if the Republicans and their Mormon* leader get into power is there a real risk of creatonism being taught as science being the norm?
Or is it a nutty fringe thing? Its hard to tell lookingin from the outside.

Education is mostly a state-by-state thing so even if the Republicans sweep the Presidency and both houses of Congress they're not going to be able to mandate the teaching of creationism from the federal level without trampling on decades of precedent. The state parties have a great deal more ideological variation than the national parties so this is unlikely to spread beyond the states where it's already being considered, which are mostly in the South and the Midwest. In many of those states it's a fairly popular, mainstream viewpoint, though it's by no means universally held.

Eldo- they might care when they are living in a mudhut with no electricty, riddled with disease and without any 'science'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

by halfwise Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:21 pm

A big problem is that Texas is one of the anti-evolution states, and also one of the biggest purchasers of high school textbooks. So the market is largely driven by Texas and evolution is often watered down as a result.

Fortunately the biology teachers usually don't lay down under this, and often teach evolution even if it's removed from the curriculum, and I think there's cases where individual school districts have outright banned evolution and the teachers doggedly ignore the ban.

So the problem isn't coming from the teachers, it's from the mutton headed politicians and elected school board officials.

by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:07 pm

So many stories to post today. Hey guys, remember how Todd "legitimate rape" Akin was supposed to be a fluke in the GOP?

Pennsylvania Senate Candidate: Daughter’s Out-Of-Wedlock Pregnancy ‘Similar’ To Rape

Pennsylvania Senate candidate Tom Smith is the latest Republican to bungle a response to Missouri Rep. Todd Akin’s controversial comment about rape and pregnancy.

“What that congressman said I do not agree with at all. He should have never said anything like that,” Smith told reporters Monday, according to the Harrisburg Patriot-News, during a Pennsylvania Press Club luncheon in Harrisburg Monday — referring to Akin’s suggestion that women’s bodies can block a pregnancy from rape.

“I lived something similar to that with my own family,” Smith said. He then described his daughter’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy — from consensual sex.

“She chose life, and I commend her for that. She knew my views but fortunately for me … she chose the way I thought. Now don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t rape.”

Smith affirmed that he believed his daughter’s pregnancy from consensual sex was similar to a rape. “Put yourself in a father’s position, yes, I mean it is similar.”

But he quickly clarified during the same event that he was not comparing the two situations: “No … I said I went through a situation [with a daughter]. It’s very, very difficult. But do I condone rape? Absolutely not. But do I propose life, yes I do. I’m pro-life, period.”

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:33 pm

Unbelievable.

by Eldorion Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:35 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: Unbelievable.

I wish it was. Rolling Eyes

The attitude towards pre-marital sex in some places is truly ridiculous, even in the U.S. {{{Not that they always practice what they preach, as this guy's anecdote shows...}}}

by Eldorion Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:36 pm

The Republicans are at it again, and this time it's personal! Mad

Republicans call for crackdown on pornography - Reuters

The Republican Party is calling for a crackdown on pornography in a move that could pit social conservatives against hotel operators, television providers and other businesses that profit from the sale of sexually explicit material.

As they prepare to nominate Mitt Romney as their presidential candidate for the November 6 election, Republicans have added language to their official platform that anti-smut activists said would encourage the federal government to step up prosecution of pornography involving adults.

"Current laws on all forms of pornography and obscenity need to be vigorously enforced," the platform says, according to a draft obtained by Reuters. Republicans are planning a Tuesday vote on the document, a nonbinding statement of principles that tackles everything from monetary policy to abortion.

Though previous Republican platforms have called for increased prosecution of child pornography, this appears to be the first time that the party has called for a crackdown on sexually explicit material involving adults - a multi-billion-dollar industry.

Obscenity has been notoriously difficult to define in a legal context. The Supreme Court in 1973 held that to be obscene, material must depict sex in a manner that offends contemporary community standards and is devoid of artistic or scientific value.

Adult obscenity cases have been exceedingly rare over the past 20 years. Though the administration of George W. Bush promised a crackdown, only the most extreme forms of pornography have been targeted.

Anti-pornography activist Patrick Trueman said the language in the Republican platform would bolster a broader push against the type of sexually explicit material that is sold by convenience stores, by hotels via pay-per-view television programming, and satellite and cable TV providers.

The widespread availability of Internet pornography has made it harder for a generation of young men to find intimacy with their wives, he said.

"It's a growing problem for men in their 20s," Trueman said. "It's changed the way their brain maps have developed. This is the way they get sexually excited."

According to Trueman's group, Romney promised earlier this year that he would push for "strict enforcement" of obscenity laws, as well as the broader use of blocking software to screen out Internet porn.

Trueman and other social conservatives criticized Romney during his 2008 bid for having served on the board of directors of hotel operator Mariott International, which sold sexually explicit content in its hotel rooms. Mariott announced last year that it would gradually stop providing pay-per-view "adult" material.

The Internet research firm TopTenReviews estimated that adult pornography revenues through magazines, the Internet and video sales and rentals totaled $9.4 billion in 2006.

So much for being the party of personal freedom and free enterprise (as if that was news). Rolling Eyes

Also, the underlined parts make me suspect that the anti-pornography activists have their own problems that are unrelated to pornography. Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:45 pm

Holy Wullies* the lot of them! Mad

*A poem by Rabbie Burns.
'It is considered the greatest of all Burns' satirical poems, one of the finest satires by any poet, and a withering attack on religious hypocrisy.
The poem is an attack on the bigotry and hypocrisy of some members of the Kirk (Church), as told by the (fictional) self-justifying prayer of a (real) kirk elder, Holy Wullie. Throughout the poem, Holy Wullie displays his hypocrisy by justifying his own transgressions while simultaneously asking God to judge harshly and show no mercy to his fellow transgressors.'

by Eldorion Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:48 pm

It's always amused me that Utah, hotbed of Mormonism, consistently "red" state, and home to many righteously indignant social conservatives also purchases porn at a higher rate than any other state. Laughing

...Although the real embarrassment there is that they purchase their porn. Suspect

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:23 am

'New figures just released by the Center for Responsive Politics, an independent research group which tracks money in politics, estimate the total cost of November's elections (for the presidency, House of Representatives and Senate) will come in at $5.8bn (£3.7bn) - more than the entire annual GDP of Malawi, and up 7% on 2008.'- BBC

Isnt there a recession on?

by halfwise Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:39 am

Eldorion wrote:The Republicans are at it again, and this time it's personal!

Republicans call for crackdown on pornography - Reuters

Well, if they are successful, I estimate American productivity will go up by 50%.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:27 am

And thats just in your office Halfwise! Laughing

by halfwise Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:30 am

Would be 100% if it weren't for this dratted forum. Mad

by halfwise Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:34 am

In the RNC hall, young Republicans wonder: where’s the beer?
By Holly Bailey, Yahoo! News

As Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallen delivered her speech at the RNC Tuesday night, three men moved rapidly through the packed crowd on the concourse outside the convention floor, stopping briefly at every concession stand along the way to inspect the menu.
"Beer? Do you have beer?!" one young man asked. His tone was best described as urgent. "Why is there no beer?"
The crew stopped to question cashiers at nearly a half dozen concession stands. Approached by Yahoo News, the men, who appeared to be in their early 30s, declined to say where they were from—though their Stetson cowboy hats and shirts featuring Texas's Lone Star flag seemed to be a dead giveaway.
"I just don't understand why there is no beer," one of the men said. "This is the Republican convention! There must be beer."
And the search continued.....
Smile

by David H Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:44 am

You've got to admire men with such a clear mission!

by Eldorion Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:57 am

I can't blame them. I doubt that there is anything better to do at either convention. Very Happy

by the truth Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:04 am

I couldnt have said it better myself Eldo.