Re: US Presidential Election 2012

by David H Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Mrs Figg wrote: All the principles women fought for in the 60s and 70s have gone down the tube.

My mom and her sister are both in their 80's. They love to talk about the social changes they've seen and been a part of through the years.
They would strongly disagree with the statement.

by Mrs Figg Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:42 pm

sorry Dave. maybe I exagerated and put that badly, not all principles, obviously. But it does seem like we are going backwards sometimes, what with the rise of fundamentalist Christian/Islamic values for eg, Iranian womens lives has got many times worse since the death of the Shah. they keep moving the goalposts. Things are definately better for me than my mothers generation, but for how long, I dont have faith it wont get bad again.

by David H Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:15 pm

I understand what you mean Mrs Figg. It sometimes seems like society changes in a series of pendulum swings, and when it's swinging backward it's hard to recognize how much distance has still been covered.

I think it's important to acknowledge what's been accomplished in the past, but at the same time I have to admit that sometimes my mom and aunt sound a bit like four Yorksiremen! Rolling Eyes

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Working with older people a lot I have heard first hand accounts of womens struggles in the workplace.
My own aunt was high up in the Ministry of Defence at a time when few women were- she was a mathmatician, on her first day appointed to a team that had something to do with nuclear power (she still wont say exactly what they did-official secrets and all that) she arrived at the boardroom- all men of course- and before she could even say hello the head of the board glanced up and said "Tea, two sugars. What does everyone else want?"
By the end of her first day she was being accosted in an office by one of the other board members who told her that the sort of woman who wanted to work with men must be 'up for it'. Then proceeded to try to put his hand up her skirt.
She broke two of his fingers for his trouble.

by Mrs Figg Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:38 pm

One of the oddest changes from my mothers generation to my own is that my mothers generation were just expected to have children as a matter of course. It wasnt even an option. You got married and then you had kids, end of story. You were seen as odd or unnatural, or not a 'proper' woman if you didnt. Now you do have a choice, and you can adopt if you physically cant, and its not a stigma. There was the pill in the 60s but still its only recently that being childless is not seen as bringing shame on the family. In Italy though, its still expected and questions are asked, especially in the South where there are still honour killings and il padrino.

by halfwise Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:15 am

Hmmm....looking at the history and current status of the Isle of Man, I think I'll give in and grant it as the oldest democracy. Close enough to being its own country.

by odo banks Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:02 am

On an Isle of Men, I guess these questions of Women's Rights are irrelevant, Halfwise. Very Happy

by halfwise Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:52 am

Surprised the place still has a population. Must be kidnappers.

by David H Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 am

halfwise wrote:Hmmm....looking at the history and current status of the Isle of Man, I think I'll give in and grant it as the oldest democracy. Close enough to being its own country.

OK they may be the oldest democracy but I bet John Dingell is the oldest Democrat (at least serving)

US Presidential Election 2012 - Page 20 John%20dingell

US Presidential Election 2012 - Page 20 John%20dingell

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by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Mmm I wonder if he is.
The Rt Hon Sir Peter Tapsell of the Conservatives has been in politics since the early 1950's and is still there at the tender age of 82.

by David H Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:33 pm

Until his death in 2010, senator Robert Byrd of W. Virginia was the oldest Democrat in Congress at 92. Texas has some pretty old Republicans as well.

by Mrs Figg Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:36 pm

what about Tony Benn, in parliament as Labour mp for more than 50 years?

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Here we go again;

'Two people are dead, including a gunman, and up to nine others are wounded in a shootout near New York's Empire State Building, officials say.
The gunman was reportedly killed by police, and officials said nine others were wounded in the rush-hour incident in the heart of Manhattan.
Law enforcement officials said a shop worker sacked near the iconic tower shot dead a former colleague.'-- BBC

Yeah! Guns are great! Everyone should have the right to one! Rolling Eyes

by David H Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:58 pm

New York rush hour scares me more than people with guns. affraid

by David H Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:04 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:what about Tony Benn, in parliament as Labour mp for more than 50 years?

Good one Mrs Figg! He seems to be 87 and Labour is close to being a Democrat. [Note that I say close. I still claim we have the oldest serving Democrat. I'm determined to salvage something from Halfwise's claim!]

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:20 pm

New York rush hour scares me more than people with guns.- David

That reminds me of an Adams line from Dirk Gently, where the woman lost her husband in a 'New York taxi hailing incident' Very Happy

by Eldorion Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:04 pm

For those who don't know, the National Review is a famously right-wing magazine based in New York City but widely read throughout the country.

A conservative asks "What do women want?"

What do women want? The conventional biological wisdom is that men select mates for fertility, while women select for status — thus the commonness of younger women’s pairing with well-established older men but the rarity of the converse. The Demi Moore–Ashton Kutcher model is an exception — the only 40-year-old woman Jack Nicholson has ever seen naked is Kathy Bates in that horrific hot-tub scene. Age is cruel to women, and subordination is cruel to men. Ellen Kullman is a very pretty woman, but at 56 years of age she probably would not turn a lot of heads in a college bar, and the fact that she is the chairman and CEO of Dupont isn’t going to change that.

It’s a good thing Mitt Romney doesn’t hang out in college bars.

You want off-the-charts status? Check out the curriculum vitae of one Willard M. Romney: $200 million in the bank (and a hell of a lot more if he didn’t give so much away), apex alpha executive, CEO, chairman of the board, governor, bishop, boss of everything he’s ever touched. Son of the same, father of more. It is a curious scientific fact (explained in evolutionary biology by the Trivers-Willard hypothesis — Willard, notice) that high-status animals tend to have more male offspring than female offspring, which holds true across many species, from red deer to mink to Homo sap. The offspring of rich families are statistically biased in favor of sons — the children of the general population are 51 percent male and 49 percent female, but the children of the Forbes billionaire list are 60 percent male. Have a gander at that Romney family picture: five sons, zero daughters. Romney has 18 grandchildren, and they exceed a 2:1 ratio of grandsons to granddaughters (13:5). When they go to church at their summer-vacation home, the Romney clan makes up a third of the congregation. He is basically a tribal chieftain.

Professor Obama? Two daughters. May as well give the guy a cardigan. And fallopian tubes.

From an evolutionary point of view, Mitt Romney should get 100 percent of the female vote. All of it. He should get Michelle Obama’s vote. You can insert your own Mormon polygamy joke here, but the ladies do tend to flock to successful executives and entrepreneurs. Saleh al-Rajhi, billionaire banker, left behind 61 children when he cashed out last year. We don’t do harems here, of course, but Romney is exactly the kind of guy who in another time and place would have the option of maintaining one. He’s a boss. Given that we are no longer roaming the veldt for the most part, money is a reasonable stand-in for social status. Romney’s net worth is more than that of the last eight U.S. presidents combined. He set up a trust for his grandkids and kicked in about seven times Barack Obama’s net worth, which at $11.8 million is not inconsiderable but probably less than Romney’s tax bill in a good year. If he hadn’t given away so much money to his church, charities, and grandkids, Mitt Romney would have more money than Jay-Z.

It is time for Mitt Romney to get in touch with his inner rich guy.

Some Occupy Wall Street types, believing it to be the height of wit, have begun to spell Romney’s name “Rmoney.” But Romney can do better than that — put it in all caps: R-MONEY. Jay-Z can keep his puny little lowercase letters and the Maybach: R-MONEY doesn’t own a flashy car with rims, R-MONEY does billion-dollar deals with Keystone Automotive and Delphi. You want to make it rain? R-MONEY is going to make it storm, like biblical. Rappers boast about their fat stacks: R-MONEY’s fat stacks live in a beachfront house of their own in the Hamptons, and the bricks in that house are made from tightly bound hundred-dollar bills. You have a ton of money? R-MONEY has 200 metric tons of money if he decides to keep it in cash.

It goes on for two more pages at the link above.

by Eldorion Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:10 pm

After reading that I can't help but think that rather than women, the only person who feels intense sexual attraction to Mitt "R-MONEY" Romney is the author of that piece, Kevin D. Williamson.

US Presidential Election 2012 - Page 20 V6FDs

US Presidential Election 2012 - Page 20 V6FDs

by Mrs Figg Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:16 pm

He looks like he once had fallopian tubes and was called Susan.

by halfwise Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:42 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:New York rush hour scares me more than people with guns.- David

That reminds me of an Adams line from Dirk Gently, where the woman lost her husband in a 'New York taxi hailing incident'

Having visited Rome and now residing in New York, the traffic in Rome is far more frightening. In New York at least the traffic rules are conspicuous by the exceptions - in Rome you can't even figure out what the exceptions are. Naples is worse.

I wouldn't even worry about rush hour in the Southwest loop of Washington DC: the traffic is moving too slow to cause any damage.

by Mrs Figg Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:49 pm

so true Halfwise, the further south you go the scarier the driving. Naples = nightmare.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:50 pm

Must be the heat. Very Happy

by Rexington Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:15 am

I'm happy to see that American politics is a hot topic here. I'll be joining in on the conversation later...

by **Orwell** Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:41 am

As long as you realize we don't accept dissenting views here, you'll be fine, Rex. Very Happy

by Eldorion Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:06 am

I look forward to hearing your thoughts! I don't know what your opinions but we could always use more disagreements in here so I'm glad you're interested in posting in this subforum regardless. Very Happy