US Presidential Election 2012

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
A nation the size of America, with the military power of America and a majority whose thinking is led by this vision of an all powerful all dominating super power is frankly a terrifying prospect.

I think your wildly wrong about the majority. There's a vocal minority, and there's a much larger minority who just want to be left the F*** alone. After Clinton many of these latter joined with the vocal ones out of spite, but after Bush's first term many of them left, and at the next election many joined the Obama camp. Call them the Contrary Party if you want. The Republican core is now so eroded that they're trying to build a new coalition of the various extreme fringe groups, so they're trying to prove that they speak fluent Crazy, but nobody believes them. They've already lost this election in all but name.

Go ahead and listen to Fox if it's fun for you, but the Daily Show does a much better job of picking out the entertaining soundbytes.

I watch the Daily Show too.
And I am really speaking of perceptions here- and they can be more potent than truths (which are rarer).
The perception of America outside of it as more often the Fox end of the spectrum than any other.
When some modicum of health care is introduced our tv reports the American media talking about Death Panels and other laughable nonsense- when diplomacy is called for America seems to be full of hawks, or people like Palin who dont even know where the countries are they are advocating bombing.
This might not be how America really is but it is more often how people outside of it see it. And thats dangerous in itself. People are afraid of America because its powerful and often seemingly crazy. And the perception of those two things together is not a good one to have.

David H wrote:Let me tell you a story of one of my most awkward situations when traveling. On March 21, 2003 I was sick of all the jingoism as the Iraq invasion was starting. I took a small rucksack and bought a cheap ticket to Eastern Europe. Then I started working my way SE towards Turkey as the flood of Iraqi refugees came NW, talking to everybody I met. I often do this when I think American foreign policy sucks and I need to get my own facts.

Very commendable approach, David. For those outside the US, I think it's shocking to discover how insular the 'American mind' is. I can't bear to say much more because it's painful. So I'll switch topics.

During the year or so after 9/11 one of the truly great things about being American was completely squashed: it's almost a point of pride to publicly bash US leadership if you feel it's called for, but for a period of time this important part of citizenship was crowded out. You felt you couldn't be publicly critical of US policy without being labeled anti-American, which was a truly unreal feeling, like living in a looking glass world. The only bit of protest most people felt they could do openly was to refuse to wear an American flag: if you displayed one, it was automatically assumed you supported the current policy, hook line and sinker. Many of us hid all Americana away for shame.

I've since come to feel that many of the policies I felt were stupid were maybe not completely wrong (Obama has adopted most of the Bush era policies), but the lack of any general sentiment to debate at the time was simply bizarre.

I know halfwise. Those were very strange times! And the irony is that following 9/11 we had the sympathy of most of the ordinary people of the whole world on our side. Even those who would normally have been critical would tell me how sorry they were, and even that they could understand why we had to invade Afghanistan to take out the Al Qaeda training camps (not sure I agree, but that's what I heard over and over again.)

What an opportunity that would have been to have shown the world our good side! Instead we acted more like a drunken bully, even to our friends and allies, while our president used the public fear at home as an excuse to install a new fascist tool kit in his office.

Petty, because I know you enjoy thinking about this stuff, have you noticed how much of this particular flavor of Crazy comes out of Texas? I actually enjoy visiting down there. The people of Texas are very hospitable. But they have my vote for the worst tourists in the world!

When they travel anywhere else in the United States or the rest of the World, they're always happy to tell you how they do things in Texas, as if that were the end of any subject. In non-English speaking countries they often speak loudly, critically, and publicly of the how backwards things are here and how the people smell, as if nobody else but them could understand English As I write this it feels like an unfair stereotype, but I've had the experience so often that I've learned when I hear that Texas accent something embarrassing is about to happen.

And because Texas' population has nearly doubled in recent years, approaching 30 million now, they're having much more of a voice in our national government. Poke around a bit and you'll see what I mean.

And since I don't want to leave this as just a Texas bashing post, let me recommend Jim Hightower. He's definitely an interesting counterpoint to standard Texas rhetoric http://www.jimhightower.com/air

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/signal/obama-poised-win-2012-election-303-electoral-votes-202543583.html
This article is interesting without getting too technical. The table in the middle which shows the electoral votes for each state (right column) is especially handy for showing the distribution of the right wing ideological culture and why it makes so much noise without necessarily affecting the electoral outcome. I wish they had spelled out the names of the states completely, (probably would have been easier for some of you), but the rest should explain itself.

FWIW I'm predicting an even bigger win than this for Obama, because I'm expecting his popularity to rise sharply among Democrats and Independents once he starts campaigning. He's really good at that!

Petty, because I know you enjoy thinking about this stuff, have you noticed how much of this particular flavor of Crazy comes out of Texas?- David

We know that Texans is a quite special breed of Americans. I Norway we sometimes refer to something that is over the top, out of control and a rather crazy (and potentially dangerous) as being "helt Texas", "completly Texas". (I believe it has it's origin from old westerns though, but it still fits. Cowboyhats and guns, not much have changed. )

Amarië wrote:
We know that Texans is a quite special breed of Americans. I Norway we sometimes refer to something that is over the top, out of control and a rather crazy (and potentially dangerous) as being "helt Texas", "completly Texas". (I believe it has it's origin from old westerns though, but it still fits. Cowboyhats and guns, not much have changed. )

Yes! Exactly right! And I want one of those T-shirts for a Texan friend of mine!

One winter I ended up having to hitchhike across Finnmark, getting rides mostly from Sami reindeer herders. We had no language in common, but we could still have a great "conversation" about John Wayne. Cowboys building cultural bridges

I dont think George Bush (either of them but particularly the latter) helped the image much.
Basically most of the south (which the rest of the world has been given the impression its all burning blacks on crosses and 'squeal like a pig' terrirtory) and anywhere in the Bible Belt (where the impression is they burn people for being black and knowing science/or reading anything other than the Bible and Republican Weekly) are painted as less than enightened corners of the earth.

There are places in the South where my Yankee accent could get me into trouble if I didn't go out of my way to show respect, just as I know that a rude Englishman wouldn't have to look very hard for a fight in parts of Scotland. But most of the rest is ancient history or myth. Your chances of getting gang-raped Deliverance style are far higher in any major city.

I dont doubt it David- the image of Scotland abroad is not exactly modern, nor an accident as its good for tourism.

Strange thing stereotypes- and this is a kilt wearing, bagpipe playing, barrel living, buckie swilling scotshobbit talking, they have had a bad press in our 'everyones an individual' modern world. But they don't arise out of nothing.
I've long held to the ancient Celtic belief (and shared by many other people around the globe) that there is a connection between the land a people develop on and the development of the character of the people. Or as it was symbolised in the Arthurian legends 'The land and the King are one.' I just replace King with people, as being Scots I don't believe anyone is inherently born a more worthwhile person than another, but rather that we all just the same (or is that just another stereotype?! )

T-shirts! Get you t-shirtst here! http://www.kuletshirts.no/T-skjorter/Helt-texas/
Though I am sure it would be easier to find a more local shop and get a custom titled one there.

Amarië wrote:

Petty, because I know you enjoy thinking about this stuff, have you noticed how much of this particular flavor of Crazy comes out of Texas?- David

We know that Texans is a quite special breed of Americans. I Norway we sometimes refer to something that is over the top, out of control and a rather crazy (and potentially dangerous) as being "helt Texas", "completly Texas". (I believe it has it's origin from old westerns though, but it still fits. Cowboyhats and guns, not much have changed. )

This is especially hilarious to me because I grew up in Texas (though my parents are minnesotan). I never appreciated Texas until I took my first chance to get the hell away from it for college, only to realize no other place had such a strong self-identity. It's actually kind of cool, and the kookiness of Texans adds to it. Kind of like your crazy uncle that love because you can always count on him being crazy, but you don't want him organizing the family reunion, or running for political office except for entertainment.

I nearly wasn't sure where to put this- here or the religous debate thjread.
Santorum said of Obama: "Santorum told voters that Obama's agenda is "not about you. It's not about your quality of life. It's not about your jobs. It's about some phony ideal. Some phony theology. Not a theology based on the Bible. A different theology."

But now he says he wasn't questioning the President religous creditentials as a Christian (and this as someone looking in from the outside is also it seems to me a roundabout way of Republicans saying you have to be Christian to be a President).

"I was talking about the radical environmentalist," he said. "I was talking about energy, this idea that man is here to serve the Earth as opposed to husband its resources and be good stewards of the Earth. And I think that is a phony ideal.
I don't believe that that's what we're here to do. That man is here to use the resources and use them wisely, to care for the Earth, to be a steward of the Earth, but we're not here to serve the Earth. The Earth is not the objective. Man is the objective. And I think a lot of radical environmentalists have it upside down," Santorum said."

I assume this based in the Bible and particularyl Genesis in which God gives the earth and every other lving thing on it to man to do with as he pleases and is the sort of thinking which has led to the complete rape of the planets resources ever since with no thought to the consequneces becaseu we dind't have to think of the consequences becaseu God told us to.
I this man were ever to get elected I think it would be the begining of the end for the US and probably large chunks of the world too like Palestine.

Really is this lot that are running with policies which are either based at best in Medievil times or at worst would star WW3 wihtin days the best America has to offer as potential leaders?
I am afraid th emore I hear of interanl US politics and the more I learn the more I fear the country is a basket case (in case that phrase doesn't translate- complete nutters who should be locked up in padded cells for everyones safety).

PT-

The good news is that the American political system makes it very difficult to accomplish anything, good or bad. So even with a paranoid kook (like Nixon) or a dim-bulb (like GW Bush) in office, the country continues, for the most part. It's not great, but it limits the possibility for disaster.

Ever since I lost my bank job with health benefits and became a contractor with no benefits, I have seen the wisdom of National Health Care. Somehow, though, it's hard to get it into place, even though the current president wants it. The system here makes it really difficult. Even though the rest of world has it.

Sort of like "soccer," which we can't even call by it's real name.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:the more I learn the more I fear the country is a basket case (in case that phrase doesn't translate- complete nutters who should be locked up in padded cells for everyones safety).

The phrase works perfectly here, and is quite accurate thank you. Can I have my padded cell now?

"So even with a paranoid kook (like Nixon) or a dim-bulb (like GW Bush) in office, the country continues, for the most part. It's not great, but it limits the possibility for disaster."- the Wobbit

Unless you are one of the thousands of dead civilians as a direct result of Bush's presidency (or possibly worse) one of the survivors who lost their whole family as a result of that Presidency. That would seem fairly disasterous to me. There were thousands of people alive when Bush came to office who would be stone cold dead by the time he left it - a direct consequence of the Presidents actions. That would seem a very great power to weild to me.
A President might have their hands tied domestically so they can't even pass Health Care reforms but seems a lot easier to go kill civilians abroad- odd that.

There's nothing like a foreign war, even with a bit of harmless sounding collateral damage, to distract people from domestic issues.

Thats what worries about the Falkland Island situation.

What worries, Petty, is that not enough folk are telling the Argentinians to butt out of Brittish affairs and shut the you know what up.

Yes but everything not going pear shaped relies on both sides showing common sense- a rare commodity in politics at the best of times and even rarer when people are being squeezed, and everyone is being squeezed right now.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
A President might have their hands tied domestically so they can't even pass Health Care reforms but seems a lot easier to go kill civilians abroad- odd that.

Indeed.

I guess I'm still giddy that the US didn't join the Soviets in nuking the whole world. I grew up thinking this was the inevitable fate of the planet. Somehow we're just smart enough to not push the button.

Which is not much of an accomplishment.

Hopefully my next president will be no worse than my current one. Although he's got blood on his hands, too. I remember when assassination was a dirty little secret of statecraft that was never discussed openly, but Obama has used it openly.

I too grew up in the belief the world was probably going to end in a blinding flash at any minute.
Where I grew up was No. 1 on the Soviet hit list for Europe- if there had been a nuclear war we would have been the first to know about it at least- just not for very long.
We did nuclear attack drills in our primary school, covering the windows, piling up desks in the corner to get behind- it was a joke of course we would have been at ground zero of any nuke going off and all the desks in the world would not have offered any protection.

My school was majority American pupils from the Navy Base so was an interesting cross of cultures I got to grow up with- as a child I was deeply envious of US breakfast cereals and kool-aid! Marshmallow pieces in cereal- you people are crazy but occasionally ingenious with it! Thats almost a good enough culinary idea to be Scottish!
They bring a lot of US culture with them US Navy Bases- so we had Little League teams, tenpin bowling, basketball courts, July the 4th celebrations which took up the entire stadium in town and was open and more importantly free for all- and free food and drink- good way to remain popular whilst celebrating kicking out the very country you are currently in!

Americans were also formative in my developing crabbit meter- math! Whats that then, should have an 's' on the end its an abbreviation of mathmatics, an umbrella word for multiple disciplines, it has to be a plural word you can't have a single math!!! Americans!!

Pettytyrant101 wrote: There were thousands of people alive when Bush came to office who would be stone cold dead by the time he left it - a direct consequence of the Presidents actions.

The most conservative estimates put the losses in the hundreds of thousands. I think it's important to keep the scale in mind.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

Marshmallow pieces in cereal- you people are crazy but occasionally ingenious with it! Thats almost a good enough culinary idea to be Scottish!

Be careful Petty. This is exactly the ingenuity that first let to putting Cola Cola into good Scottish Whiskey!

math! Whats that then, should have an 's' on the end its an abbreviation of mathmatics, an umbrella word for multiple disciplines, it has to be a plural word you can't have a single math!!! Americans!!

Mathematics, like politics isn't a proper plural, because then mathematic would have to be a singular noun. I only know it as an adjective. We just choose to save the extra "s" when type-setting. You Scots can be so wasteful some times!